Do you enjoy Sub?

[Deleted]

So it looks like lots of people will be playing Outlaw over Sin and Sub.

Why won't you be playing Sub? Is it the gameplay? Is that Outlaw performs better?

Edit: If you don't like it, what about the gameplay puts you off?

Thanks.

[Soisoisoi]

I'll be playing Sub, for sure. My only issue with it is the lack of AoE finisher.

Outlaw is too RNG for my tastes; it will never be viable in anything high end if the sway is as large as it is now. Assassination is alright, but the Exsanguinate nerf made it less fun.

[Linneth]

Outlaw is too RNG for my tastes; it will never be viable in anything high end if the sway is as large as it is now.

When the worst-case scenario involves Outlaw doing middle-of-the-pack dps I think this statement doesn´t hold true.

[roflwaffle]

i love the single target rotation of sub, just dont like is it's aoe. same reason im not playing feral lol.

[shaunika123]

I'll be playing Sub, for sure. My only issue with it is the lack of AoE finisher.

Outlaw is too RNG for my tastes; it will never be viable in anything high end if the sway is as large as it is now. Assassination is alright, but the Exsanguinate nerf made it less fun.

^clearly hasnt played outlaw ever in his life

[Soisoisoi]

When the worst-case scenario involves Outlaw doing middle-of-the-pack dps I think this statement doesn´t hold true.

It will be viable, it just won't be viable on any sort of fight with adds similar to Spine of Deathwing's mechanics, where you need to have consistent on-demand burst. You get a bad roll, your DPS is half it should be and the add doesn't die.

^clearly hasnt played outlaw ever in his life

Feel free to actually add something useful.

[nexellent]

Nope, legion sub is an abomination. It would be better if blizzard reverted sub to any of its previous incarnations from WotLK-wod

[shaunika123]

It will be viable, it just won't be viable on any sort of fight with adds similar to Spine of Deathwing's mechanics, where you need to have consistent on-demand burst. You get a bad roll, your DPS is half it should be and the add doesn't die.



Feel free to actually add something useful.

okay here goes

CotDB is probably the biggest on demand burst out of any rogue specs EVEN with shitty rolls
you can roll PRIOR to that add coming out to get the desired roll
you have 37% chance to roll double buff which is already good enough to leave the other 2 specs in the dust

also the dps difference between rolling 1 buff and rolling 3 is like 10% so it's hardly "half"
oh and if you get the legendary boots you have another dps cooldown on a 1 minute CD

is that useful? clearly more useful than using the "omg it has RNG in it so it's either insanely overpowered or way too shitty" argument , even though that's not at all how it works, that's why i assumed rightly that you've no idea about the spec other than you read roll the bones and claimed "it's RNG therefore it sucks"

[Goron24]

Nope, legion sub is an abomination. It would be better if blizzard reverted sub to any of its previous incarnations from WotLK-wod

I wish, I made the mistake of playing combat during WoD, sub seemed way cooler now that I look back on it.

[nexellent]

I wish, I made the mistake of playing combat during WoD, sub seemed way cooler now that I look back on it.

yup, i played rogue only for sub the past few years. Now sub is probably my least favorite spec in the game.

[Deleted]

This one goes for pretty much all these kinds of threads.



Not trying to degrade your topic, but it is based on opinions (if youre not a min-maxing kind of guy) and they differ from person to person. Trying to persuade someone into another opinion just antagonizes people.

[Deleted]

Personaly HATE sub. if its top dps i play it but I will need to drink alot more alcohol.

in my opinion its not a pce rogue spec, its a pvp spec that "the other ppl use". But same time, who can take me serious? I played combat for BT and WOTLK and loved it

[Spiritvs]

I play mostly PVP, and ppl can say sub is Op or wtv, still im gonna play what i enjoy play, Assassin.
Everyone should do the same.. but some ppl just play to be number one instead of having fun so you do what u got to do.

[Deleted]

This one goes for pretty much all these kinds of threads.



Not trying to degrade your topic, but it is based on opinions (if youre not a min-maxing kind of guy) and they differ from person to person. Trying to persuade someone into another opinion just antagonizes people.

All I'm looking for is opinions. Last time I played a Rogue was in TBC. I'm behind and I like to get a feel for the opinions of specs.

[Blayke]

So it looks like lots of people will be playing Outlaw over Sin and Sub.
Why won't you be playing Sub? Is it the gameplay? Is that Outlaw performs better?

Switched to sub for the first time in WoD after years playing Mut. People forget that this was the first xpac in which Sub was the unquestioned dps leader. It was viable for pve in MoP, really for the first time. It was sort of viable in Cata, but even the well known EJ rogue theorycrafter Aldrianna refused to play because, in his words, "I'm not a masochist".

So I went sub this expac because I had taken mut as far as I could, but I never loved sub. I mastered, more or less, the rotation and mechanics of the spec, but I still find it to be a pain in the ass. I loved Mut. With sub, I love the results, admittedly, but I don't love the spec, and I have no problem letting go. I had a much harder time letting go of Assassination, but now it's way too dot oriented for me, so that's going to stay on the shelf too.

Which brings me to Outlaw. I love this spec. Yes, rtb is a bit quirky, but to me that's part of the fun (I realize not everyone will see it that way). And it's not as random as some people think. The way it is now if you get any two buffs you're gtg, and you have a ~35% chance of getting that.

The spec is fun, the rotation is simpler than sub, it does great aoe AND great ST damage. When was the last time we rogues could say we had all that in once spec?

[daspels]

okay here goes

CotDB is probably the biggest on demand burst out of any rogue specs EVEN with shitty rolls
you can roll PRIOR to that add coming out to get the desired roll
you have 37% chance to roll double buff which is already good enough to leave the other 2 specs in the dust

also the dps difference between rolling 1 buff and rolling 3 is like 10% so it's hardly "half"
oh and if you get the legendary boots you have another dps cooldown on a 1 minute CD

is that useful? clearly more useful than using the "omg it has RNG in it so it's either insanely overpowered or way too shitty" argument , even though that's not at all how it works, that's why i assumed rightly that you've no idea about the spec other than you read roll the bones and claimed "it's RNG therefore it sucks"

What about this senario: The info we got from sims suggest that we should fish for two buffs. What if you roll 1 buff 11 times in a row? This CAN happen, even worse rolls CAN happen. I guess thats what he means by "useless". I hate this part of RTB and would love it if Blizzard just removed the one buff part of it (and maybe overall nerf some of them at the same time so it evens out.)

[Deleted]

IMO, sub is really boring. I didn't test with the artefact on, but without it, its just about spamming shadwowstrike, and with the 10 yards nerf, its not even fun anymore...
I'm going to go for assa/Outlaw, and if i got time, I'll up sub artefact later on.

[kalaratic]

i could write an essay on why this spec was turned to garbage by some narcissist man-child but the short and sweet reason i'm not playing this spec is because of shadow techniques. the reason you see a lot of outlaw right now is because it's the highest simming spec for a while and mut rogues will always be mut rogues.

[shaunika123]

What about this senario: The info we got from sims suggest that we should fish for two buffs. What if you roll 1 buff 11 times in a row? This CAN happen, even worse rolls CAN happen. I guess thats what he means by "useless". I hate this part of RTB and would love it if Blizzard just removed the one buff part of it (and maybe overall nerf some of them at the same time so it evens out.)

yes, and your trinkets also can not proc
you can crit 0% of the time
and there can be a bunch of other shit that happens.

playing a spec that's worse 99 times out of a 100 just for that 1 out of 100 occasion is the most backwards and contradictory logic ive ever heard in my life. Especially since 1,6 times out of a 100 you'll roll 6 buffs in which case you'll literally do enough damage for two sub rogues and rolling 6 has a similar chance as rolling 1 11 times in a row which is about 3%

and as i said, even with 1 buff CotDB is at least similar/better burst than anything sub/assa has

[Conformist]

I've not played beta and this is PvP perspective.

I was all set to play sub. Practiced a lot and complained a lot on the forum about the shadow dance stance issue. For a month I didn't touch any other specc (except very momentarily) because I wanted to perfect the shadow dance. Two days ago I got sick of getting my ass handed to me by any and all assassination rogues in skirmish and, that and generally doing abysmal damage in arena. Decided to give assassination a go. Well I'm not going back, at least not until I'm 110 and ideally through persuasion of facts. In skirmish I do 2-3 times the damage I did as sub, the burst is frankly overpowered and the spec feels better.

We'll see how it plays out at 110 but I wish someone had told me how sucky sub was at 100.