Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    And this is why brexit happened. When a unelected group of people can dictate tax policy to a sovereign nation that's a problem. More countries in the EU will leave as more of this shit occurs
    There's no such thing as national sovereignty when corporations can dictate your country's laws under the threat of moving somewhere that will play ball with them. And unless there are international organizations to set and enforce certain standards, the multinationals will ALWAYS be able to find a weak sister to do their bidding, and screw over everyone else in the process.

  2. #42
    Obviously Ireland has decided having 6000 well paid employed Irish, who all do pay taxes is better for their economy than not. And now an unelected group of people from another country have decided to dictate economic and tax policy to a sovereign nation. Yes this is what's causing countries like the British to want to leave. This is exactly what brexit was about. Not wanting to have internal policy dictated by a foreign unelected body

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Ok kiddo's - time to clear some confusion a few of you less economically literate people seem to be having:

    1) EU regulation mandates that no company should receive special privileges (such as tax breaks or reduced tax rates) vis-a-vis other companies in the same country. Doing so is considered state-aid and unfair on competition in-country. Ireland is free to set any corporate tax rate it wants on companies, but it must apply it to ALL companies. If it wanted to (i.e.) tax Apple 5%, 20% or 0.005% on profits it can happily do so, as long as it does the same to all other companies in the country.

    1.5) Co-incidentally, this is the same argument on welfare & immigrants some of the less enlightened UK citizens were having, not understanding that EU regulations do NOT require countries to provide welfare, but if they did they needed to provide it to everyone equally. As the British state allows people who have not done a days work to claim benefits, this had to be applied equally to all EU citizens. The UK government could have easily resolved this by changing its own welfare rules (i.e. requiring a minimum of 5 years income tax contribution etc.).

    2) Apple will not want to relocate to the UK (in the highly unlikely event that the UK leaves the EU) as it would no longer be able to export, tariff free, to the rest of the EU. Most likely it would set up a UK branch to deal with UK sales for the 60 million ppl there and keep a EU branch for the 500 million ppl market in the EU. Having an office in the UK would not allow it to re-route (aka transfer pricing) revenues to the UK as services, as such, would not be covered under a trade agreement following the WTO rules. Assuming the UK did leave the EU, the only plausible scenario where Apple moved to the UK were if the UK stayed a member of the EEA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    unelected group of people from another country
    You do know about MEPs and how they are elected? Do you know that the EU commission is chosen by the elected heads of state of the EU member countries? And (GASP!) did you know that there are actually Irish people also working and making decisions in these organisations?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    Ok kiddo's - time to clear some confusion a few of you less economically literate people seem to be having:
    I like your Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    pending...
    Posts
    23,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    Obviously Ireland has decided having 6000 well paid employed Irish, who all do pay taxes is better for their economy than not. And now an unelected group of people from another country have decided to dictate economic and tax policy to a sovereign nation. Yes this is what's causing countries like the British to want to leave. This is exactly what brexit was about. Not wanting to have internal policy dictated by a foreign unelected body
    Yes, being uneducated and ignorant about what´s going on is whats causing countries like the UK to want to leave.

    About that 6000 well paid employed irish, unless they make 4200€ per month and work there for 40 years, Ireland is losing money.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Yes, being uneducated and ignorant about what´s going on is whats causing countries like the UK to want to leave.

    About that 6000 well paid employed irish, unless they make 4200€ per month and work there for 40 years, Ireland is losing money.
    Lol they decided they didn't want to deal with the shit of other countries telling them what to do. Good for them I hope others follow

    And the economic benefits of 6000 people working far outweighs the tax bill from Apple. That's 6000 families with a income 6000 tax payers. 6000 people buying food and drink and clothing which also goes to companies who employ others.

  7. #47
    Yeah I mean, whichever way you cut it 6000 jobs is a lot of jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Yeah I mean, whichever way you cut it 6000 jobs is a lot of jobs.

    And not crappy McDonald's jobs. Higher paying information tech and corporate jobs.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    And not crappy McDonald's jobs. Higher paying information tech and corporate jobs.
    Eh, marginally I guess. Most of those jobs wouldn't be a lot better paying, let's be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  10. #50
    Here is a good article why Ireland doesn't like this ruling. The economic benefit to Ireland not just from Apple but from nearly 1000 companies in similar positions is huge. Over 100,000 people are employed by these companies and they are responsible for almost 25% of Ireland's economic output. Here read yourself

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...rom-apple.html

    So it's fun to laugh at Apple paying money but what about these 100,000 well paid people? Tell them sucks to be you? If these companies left Ireland it would be in a shit load of hurt. Will the rest of the EU pay them for all the lost revenue and jobs?

  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    pending...
    Posts
    23,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    Lol they decided they didn't want to deal with the shit of other countries telling them what to do. Good for them I hope others follow

    And the economic benefits of 6000 people working far outweighs the tax bill from Apple. That's 6000 families with a income 6000 tax payers. 6000 people buying food and drink and clothing which also goes to companies who employ others.
    And ireland could pay those 6000 employees 2 mio each and still make a profit. I gave you the 4200€ per month number for a reason, because that´s how much they´d need to be payed by apple for 40 years to make up the billions they lost in taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    And ireland could pay those 6000 employees 2 mio each and still make a profit. I gave you the 4200€ per month number for a reason, because that´s how much they´d need to be payed by apple for 40 years to make up the billions they lost in taxes.


    While ignoring the other economic benefits of having 6000 well paid people working and contribution to the economy as a whole

  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    pending...
    Posts
    23,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    While ignoring the other economic benefits of having 6000 well paid people working and contribution to the economy as a whole
    What are you talking about? Why would they stop contributing to the economy? How is losing money an economic benefit?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    What are you talking about? Why would they stop contributing to the economy? How is losing money an economic benefit?


    Gee let's see when I earn a salary I can pay for a roof over my head and help the home builder and all their employees. I can buy food and help the supermarkets and their employees, the farmers and their families and employees, the transportation workers and their families. I can buy clothes and do the same. I can buy a car and gasp do the same. Omg amazing what happens when I'm happily emloyed I actually spend the money it doesn't go under my matress and do nothing.

    In every case the above people also spend the same money again and once that happens its spent again. Amazingly enough the money never stops getting spent but if you don't earn it to start with it stops. That's a shit load of turn over on this money especially for well paid people who buy more than the basics. Amazing concept I know I know

  15. #55
    If Ireland stick to their guns, wht would the EUs next move be? Tariff sanctions against Ireland? Fines? Boot Ireland out for not playing by it's own rules?

    I'm not sure this is a fight Ireland will win in the long run. I can't see the EU letting Ireland cheat the system as a matter of course now the investigation is done...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  16. #56
    I don't understand how you can defend tax evasion.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    While ignoring the other economic benefits of having 6000 well paid people working and contribution to the economy as a whole
    So as long as I have employees it's acceptable to break the law to make money?

    6,000 jobs really isn't that many, especially for a company paying a negative tax rate.

  18. #58
    Lol it's not tax evasion Apple played by the rules they were given and terms they agreed to with a sovereign country. This country decided the economic benefits it got from this deal far outweighed the loss in tax revenue and Apple also helped them during a major economic crisis and put a ton of people to work. A outside body that is unelected decided otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    So as long as I have employees it's acceptable to break the law to make money?

    6,000 jobs really isn't that many, especially for a company paying a negative tax rate.
    What Irish law did they break?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    Lol it's not tax evasion Apple played by the rules they were given and terms they agreed to with a sovereign country. This country decided the economic benefits it got from this deal far outweighed the loss in tax revenue and Apple also helped them during a major economic crisis and put a ton of people to work. A outside body that is unelected decided otherwise.
    When you don't pay taxes you owe, it's called tax evasion. That's what this is.

  20. #60
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    pending...
    Posts
    23,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    Gee let's see when I earn a salary I can pay for a roof over my head and help the home builder and all their employees. I can buy food and help the supermarkets and their employees, the farmers and their families and employees, the transportation workers and their families. I can buy clothes and do the same. I can buy a car and gasp do the same. Omg amazing what happens when I'm happily emloyed I actually spend the money it doesn't go under my matress and do nothing.

    In every case the above people also spend the same money again and once that happens its spent again. Amazingly enough the money never stops getting spent but if you don't earn it to start with it stops. That's a shit load of turn over on this money especially for well paid people who buy more than the basics. Amazing concept I know I know
    Seriously, and what could ireland do with all of that on top? That´s what you´re ignoring. Ireland already has one of the lowest corporate taxes with 12.5% on trade profits.

    You´re trying to sell 40% as better than 100% while being the one dictating the rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •