prognosis on ret viability confirmed: i told ya!

[Snegovik]

The only thing that bother me as a PvP player is the mobility, it's just so crappy.

Yeh I feel the same way, in Wpvp if a range wants to kite me in a straight line while spamming instant snare/dps there is very little a ret can do, this is f annoying. I am hoping PvP talents (30% speed increase on freedom) may make it easier, because its f stupid trying to catch a bm hunter in WPvP...he just puts his pets on you, and runs in a straight line lol gg.

[Frozen Death Knight]

It is not surprising that Rets underperform. Their supposed gap closer in Divine Steed has such a ridiculous cooldown and the lack of Hammer of Wrath really hurts quite a lot without much compensation. Heck, the damage is not even that good despite being arguably the slowest melee dpser in the game. Also, whose bright idea was it to make an ability like Word of Glory have a 3 Holy Power cost, 2 charges, and a 1 min cooldown for both charges? The healing output is not even that effective to make the 1 min CD make any sense. You could just as well pick the 5 Holy Power spender and do more healing and damage.

So to sum it up, we 1) don't have the mobility to compensate for the lack of range like Hammer of Wrath, 2) our utility got gutted from how it used to be, and 3) the damage numbers are heavily undertuned for a class that has very little mobility. especially when compared to other melee classes that can close the gap and deal respectable damage. It is not the first time Ret has had these issues, but the way Ret is designed in Legion certainly did not help.

[Snegovik]

-snip-

Agreed to what you said, also do not forget the fact that ALL of our survival kit can be dispelled or purged or SS or mimicked by DKs...so basically once rated arena hits, and ppl will start actually dispelling in PvP, Ret becomes much softer, which is a terrible design for a class that has THE worst mobility in game (I believe even DKs have better mobility than rets lol, which is sooo sad).

[Haram]

My only real gripe with Ret pallies is Judgment. I enjoy the playstyle, though I agree our mobility isn't the best, and losing fun spells like HoW and Exorcism really suck. While I know Blizz will probably not make such a drastic change as to make judgment a buff rather than a debuff (given their historical stubbornness with their self-proclaimed brilliant ideas), I think the least they could do is make Judgment on a 2/3 charge system with a recharge time.

This way, when you judge your main boss, and a priority add shows up you have an option of dpsing the add properly.

[Snegovik]

I feel that "nerfs" adjustments to Rets are incoming before 20th of September? I feel like either HW will be nerfed or our ST dmg will be reduced a bit. does any else have same gut feeling as me?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I feel that "nerfs" adjustments to Rets are incoming before 20th of September? I feel like either HW will be nerfed or our ST dmg will be reduced a bit. does any else have same gut feeling as me?

More likely nothing will happen


I expect Demon Hunter nerfs though. Questing wasn't too hard on my DH. My Paladin though...poor guy.

[Snegovik]

More likely nothing will happen


I expect Demon Hunter nerfs though. Questing wasn't too hard on my DH. My Paladin though...poor guy.

Ya i also expect DH to get nerfed but something tells me, they only gonna lose some of AOE dmg, ST will remain just as insane.

For my ret it took me 1 week to lvl to 110, for my DH i lvled in 2 days >.< the difference is insane, and my Ret had legendary ring, so i didnt have any issues killing any grp quest mobs, but on DH its just sooooooo much faster i literately can pull 6 + mobs and they all die under 10 seconds. I think DH is the new best lvling spec

I also "hope" rogues will get some dmg nerf 2

[Wikiy]

I personally don't get the complaints about the rotation. Ret's never been more fun for me, especially with how you can completely turn the rotation upside down with a different choice of talents, and you can do that five different ways.

And the DPS complaints are bogus. I've outdpsed 95% other people I've been in parties with in heroics so far.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I personally don't get the complaints about the rotation. Ret's never been more fun for me, especially with how you can completely turn the rotation upside down with a different choice of talents, and you can do that five different ways.

And the DPS complaints are bogus. I've outdpsed 95% other people I've been in parties with in heroics so far.

The rotation is much slower if you chose different talents. Sure it's changed but it's also made worse. I'm sure by the end of 7.4 it will be negglible or close to it.

Ya i also expect DH to get nerfed but something tells me, they only gonna lose some of AOE dmg, ST will remain just as insane.

For my ret it took me 1 week to lvl to 110, for my DH i lvled in 2 days >.< the difference is insane, and my Ret had legendary ring, so i didnt have any issues killing any grp quest mobs, but on DH its just sooooooo much faster i literately can pull 6 + mobs and they all die under 10 seconds. I think DH is the new best lvling spec

I didn't even pull more then 6 mobs but it came to me recently when doing certain quests I'm like "....I feel like my Demon Hunter is making Lightsongg look weaksauce."

[Snegovik]

-snip-

Did you notice when fighting elite NPC for grp quests as DH if you keep dashing through them and doing dps rotation while keeping some distance (not sure how to explain it, i know it sounds weird lol dpsing as melee while keeping distance) instead of just standing there, you dodge most of their attacks. I remb i was fighting Elite Moose NPC of hunting chain quest, 1st time i fought him without any cds i got him to 3% but died, 2nd time when i came, i was keeping my distance, my hp didnt drop below 90% hp >.< which is weird but i noticed this "dodge" thingy multiple times when i fought elite NPCs.

back to topic: I personally find Ret's ST dmg in a very very good spot atm, and i am afraid it will be tuned down/nerfed a bit because how good HW is in pvp at least, but on a bright side, we know that HW is Blizzard's favorite toy for Rets, hence i doubt it will be removed.

[Wikiy]

The rotation is much slower if you chose different talents. Sure it's changed but it's also made worse. I'm sure by the end of 7.4 it will be negglible or close to it.

It really depends. Most fights these days have at least one phase where you can hit more than two targets at once, and going for zeal+DH instead of buffed Crusader Strike and buffed Blade of Justice is a superior choice even if you have two targets for only, say, a third of the fight. If that leaves you with not enough holy power to fill the rotation, you can always take the shorter CD Blade of Justice. Most of these choices are only marginally different when it comes to actual situations and not a single boss with no single add ever.

[Deleted]

I feel that "nerfs" adjustments to Rets are incoming before 20th of September? I feel like either HW will be nerfed or our ST dmg will be reduced a bit. does any else have same gut feeling as me?

Either stop with the sarcasm or that comment just sounds dumb as fuck. Not a single stream I have seen has had a ret doing better dps on ST compared to any other class whilst doing worse aoe and have fuck all mobility. If anything aoe is gone be buffed while the rest remains the same. And if you are talking about pvp lulz go look at the flamestrike mages killing whole teams at the sametime just spamming nothing but flamestrike, sorry but if you actually go look around at the other classes and specs HW dmg in pvp is far from something that is anywhere close to the top of the list to be "nerfed".

[Deleted]

back to topic: I personally find Ret's ST dmg in a very very good spot atm, and i am afraid it will be tuned down/nerfed a bit because how good HW is in pvp at least, but on a bright side, we know that HW is Blizzard's favorite toy for Rets, hence i doubt it will be removed.

can´t say anything about pvp and this abomination you keep talking about but from a pve perspective a nerf would mean beating the crippled one even more. But seeing that a nerf won´t be needed the chances are good blizz will do it any way.

[Deleted]

I personally don't get the complaints about the rotation. Ret's never been more fun for me, especially with how you can completely turn the rotation upside down with a different choice of talents, and you can do that five different ways.

And the DPS complaints are bogus. I've outdpsed 95% other people I've been in parties with in heroics so far.

Not sure if serious or just trolling? Talents literally dont change your rotation at all, except ES, except make it slower. And ES is worse than FV in every possible way.
You have 0 procs unless you take DP (again worse option than crusade), JV is useless without DP and later with full artifact its worse than simply using TV (probably) unless target is stunnable, but shocker... bosses are not. No idea why they didnt give it bonus against permanently stun immune targets like storm bolt used to have and rebalance the damage... mechanic and design is already there, theyve done it already, why not use it? That way it could be made permanently desirable at least as a part of DP setup.

Its very simple rotation, you can do it half-asleep after a while when you get used to it, all the cds and stuff. It has no procs, so you dont even have to react to anything. WoD was terrible, but legion is several times worse, its just no contest how bad it is. It probably should be in the running for worst designed spec and mechanics in the history of mmorpgs, not just wow. And some abilities, talents and traits should be nominated in their respective categories too, like stupid tempest for DS, or equality, current judgement and mastery, DH, ES, word of glory.

Hell, some of those things are stuff that should get people fired for suggesting it during design. I would consider firing anyone who even gets those ideas, but getting ideas is ok, but not realizing how bad it is and actually suggesting it is terrible... because that means person suggesting it lacks basic common sense and isnt capable of rational thinking to realize why its bad and shouldnt be suggested. Unless that was the goal of ret design (something i think is very likely, considering the history of ret and their hatred for it), then i guess they have done a good job, tho its kinda petty and shows how pathetic they are.

Who else has talents that are just useless and worthless and just wont get picked unless person doesnt know better like ES(wtf is the use of it anyway, its just flat dmg on cd that replaces other flat dmg ability every once in a while... the hell?) or JV later, are terrible design like equality hated by both rets(pve and pvp) and everyone else(in pvp) or word of glory or actually hurt one part of your BASELINE spec instead of upgrading or supplementing it if you pick them like DH(lowering base, untalented single target just to have some aoe without buildup, but again... on long cd and very very slow... actually giving you less DS/TV over time).

Its flat out unreal to me that people claim its fun, interesting, complex... that talents change anything. Its most broken and retarded design ever. And i didnt even touch the fact about judgement being debuff.
With time and gear, spec will become even worse, as many options like ES, JV will disappear unless balanced every patch, due to terrible scaling and not being improved by other talents/traits... on top of already have 1/3 of stuff unusable and terrible.

[Snegovik]

Either stop with the sarcasm or that comment just sounds dumb as fuck. Not a single stream I have seen has had a ret doing better dps on ST compared to any other class whilst doing worse aoe and have fuck all mobility. If anything aoe is gone be buffed while the rest remains the same. And if you are talking about pvp lulz go look at the flamestrike mages killing whole teams at the sametime just spamming nothing but flamestrike, sorry but if you actually go look around at the other classes and specs HW dmg in pvp is far from something that is anywhere close to the top of the list to be "nerfed".

Its not about Ret's ST being high, i am just used to that Rets gets minor nerfs early on in an xpac. Remb WOD? Yes i was talking purely PvP, since HW mainly used in PvE. When i am doing 2s or 3s, i always top dmg, i even out dps DHs in 3s by a fair big margin (25-40%) all due HW, like i did 3s skrimish few days a go, vs Arms/Outlaw/Rshammy i rushed in for rshammy leaving my team behind, but got peeled by war/rog, they poped their cds and in matter of 3 globals i was below 10%, then i poped HW/Wings/AtoA and killed Arms under 5 seconds, Rshammy did not even have time to react. to me this is a broken game play since the source of our strong dmg in PvP comes from 1 spell. Also in 2s i countless times 1v2 strong specs like 2x Rogs, WW/Havoc, Feral/DH due to HW. Hence i feel like that Blizzard, given its history of liking to nerf Rets when ever we are doing decent (notice how i didnt say OP, but decent) they tend to nerf us in PvP.

- - - Updated - - -

can´t say anything about pvp and this abomination you keep talking about but from a pve perspective a nerf would mean beating the crippled one even more. But seeing that a nerf won´t be needed the chances are good blizz will do it any way.

Nah from PvP pov only, i know that in PvE our ST is high end mid pack

[Deleted]

stopped watching when he said he is lvl 103...

[Gloriandus]

I'm having a lot of fun and DPS success doing dungeons as 1-2-3-3-3-1-1 with Ashes to Ashes and Echo of the Highlord unlocked.

[Monzsterr]

Well I did have fun yesterday. Much fun. I unlocked the court of stars and arcway and went in with my guild. One of the tanks from my raid group was there so I was ret instead of prot as I've tended to be for dungeons.
Arcway, tank pulls about fifty thousands spiders at one, Wake of Ashes (A2A talent unlocked): 6M damage in one hit. Tiny tiny moment of glory.
It was good . Overall boss dps at over 200k (ilvl 850, weak relics) in AOE spec. AOE damage was about 400-450K on trash, these were larger trash groups mind you, 5+ targets.
I switched up from divine purpose to crusade (have the extended AW talent), that was amazing to finally try out and see single target dps spike up and up and up towards the end of it. For PVE I think I'm satisfied. I was like most of the people here very unhappy with the spec but getting some haste, A2A, crusade, and a having some time to get my rotation programed to muscle memory (still working on that 5hp return from WoA optimally) I'm happy. I hope this spec works out in the long run for more folks.

[infinitemeridian]

I started leveling my paladin the other day as ret (though I'm planning on playing Holy). I can understand the hate though. It's not the worst thing in the world, but the spec lacks anything exciting. It's still press stuff on cooldown and it lacks any sort of synergy outside of just getting your judgement debuff to line up with templar's verdict.

I think the biggest issue with ret is that it doesn't actually play like a righteous crusader. Monks have their mastery that feeds into the street fighter feel, outlaw has roll the bones since they're unpredictable scallywags, assassin has bleeds and poisons, sub's rotation is centered around being in stealth as much as possible, unholy dks have their ghouls and what not to summon, and on and on.

Even if you dislike the rotation for those specs, they at least attempt to play like how you would imagine. Ret just comes off as lazy and a poor man's arms warrior.