Why the gear still plays role in pvp?

[Deleted]

BiS raiders having few % more pvp power doesnt make any sense.

What possibly is reason for this design decisiong? Catering to dragon slayers who wanna be special unicorns?

[Justpassing]

Beacuse the game is about getting more gear.

[Raugnaut]

Max PvP vs max PvE is, what, 3% more powerful? If you are truely a good pvper, you will overcome that 3% with your leet skillz, amirite?

[Deleted]

Max PvP vs max PvE is, what, 3% more powerful? If you are truely a good pvper, you will overcome that 3% with your leet skillz, amirite?

If the pve player is also skillz he wins more often than not because of artificial edge.

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Beacuse the game is about getting more gear.

This has two flaws:

1. rated pvp should be about beating opponent on equal playing field
2. if pvp part of the game were about gear, developers wouldnt have diminished its role to this point

[Justpassing]

If the pve player is also skillz he wins more often than not because of artificial edge.

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This has two flaws:

1. rated pvp should be about beating opponent on equal playing field
2. if pvp part of the game were about gear, developers wouldnt have diminished its role to this point

Yes it should be, but it isn't. I'm saying this in neutrality, not trying to PvP-bash; but the game is literally not for PvPing. It's about getting gear and pwning dragons / newbs.

[Revik]

If the pve player is also skillz he wins more often than not because of artificial edge.

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This has two flaws:

1. rated pvp should be about beating opponent on equal playing field
2. if pvp part of the game were about gear, developers wouldnt have diminished its role to this point

These last 2 points are contradictory.

But to answer your question might be best approached by What exactly is PvP? Is it rated PvP ala arenas, RBGs? Or are we talking about World PvP or un-rated BGs? What I am getting at is that PvP is NOT just one thing but encompasses an aggregate of player vs player aspects.

I would agree that if rated PvP was all there was then it should be flat with no gear difference but then why play rated PvP in WoW instead of another game like Street Fighter or Counter Strike? The answer is because it is WoW and at the heart of WoW is an MMORPG which is about progression of your character. Without progression you're not playing WoW any longer but some other game.

That is your answer.

[Deleted]

These last 2 points are contradictory.

But to answer your question might be best approached by What exactly is PvP? Is it rated PvP ala arenas, RBGs? Or are we talking about World PvP or un-rated BGs? What I am getting at is that PvP is NOT just one thing but encompasses an aggregate of player vs player aspects.

I would agree that if rated PvP was all there was then it should be flat with no gear difference but then why play rated PvP in WoW instead of another game like Street Fighter or Counter Strike? The answer is because it is WoW and at the heart of WoW is an MMORPG which is about progression of your character. Without progression you're not playing WoW any longer but some other game.

That is your answer.

Thats stupid, you could easily have all your gear differences in world pvp and unrated, but if the game has rated pvp, it already acknowledges its competitive playerbase. Gear has no business in rated pvp.

[Charge me Doctor]

If the pve player is also skillz he wins more often than not because of artificial edge.

If a player has skillz to do both PvE and PvP - he has an edge over only PvP player

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Thats stupid, you could easily have all your gear differences in world pvp and unrated, but if the game has rated pvp, it already acknowledges its competitive playerbase. Gear has no business in rated pvp.

Yes, that's why tournament realms give you top gear for free. If you are not on a tournament realm - it's not really competitive at this point, so, his point stands valid.

[jackofwind]

If a player has skillz to do both PvE and PvP - he has an edge over only PvP player

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Yes, that's why tournament realms give you top gear for free. If you are not on a tournament realm - it's not really competitive at this point, so, his point stands valid.

And that's fine because this game is first and foremost a PvE game, and always has been.

[Deleted]

Your argument about how wow is "pve game with gear rewards" doesnt apply when there is clear competitive pvp part of the game,where blizzard clearly has said they want it to be about skill and not being overgeared compared to others, but yet they dont commit to it fully. This current system makes even less sense than previous ones.

Gear is only needed in pve because of progressively harder content that requires more stats, pvp has none of that.

There is dragon slaying part, and pvp part of the game, you cant pick one and impose that to another.

[Charge me Doctor]

Your argument about how wow is "pve game with gear rewards" doesnt apply when there is clear competitive pvp part of the game,where blizzard clearly has said they want it to be about skill and not being overgeared compared to others, but yet they dont commit to it fully. This current system makes even less sense than previous ones.

Gear is only needed in pve because of progressively harder content that requires more stats, pvp has none of that.

There is dragon slaying part, and pvp part of the game, you cant pick one and impose that to another.

Yes, that's why you have competitive PvP on tournament realms. On live it's all fair game. 1% advantage in stats is negligible. And seriously, if someone have managed to spend time to do both PvE and PvP he should have an edge (even then, 1-5% stats is not what makes you lose or win the match. Please do tell me about every single game of yours is being neck-to-neck fight with enemy healer surviving at 1% before his miracle comes off CD) over those who pick only PvP. It reminds me of "but i'm a casual pet battle player, i should be able to get all pets without participating in raids or dungeons!"

[Deleted]

BiS raiders having few % more pvp power doesnt make any sense.

What possibly is reason for this design decisiong? Catering to dragon slayers who wanna be special unicorns?

If the pve player is also skillz he wins more often than not because of artificial edge.

No longer a special Unicorn then, are they? What we now have is a skilled PvPer who has taken the time to earn a deserved advantage through playing both formats. If they ain't skilled the insignificant power gap won't help them overcome the disadvantage of having no skill.

[Krusza]

This is fundamental problem.

If PvE gives the best gear against creatures, as well as against players, what is the point of doing PvP.

Would not hurt to give PvE gear a cap in Arenas so PvP gear trumps it by one percent, and give PvP gear some extra beef against players in the world, would it?

"What's the point in doing PvP?"

Do you do PvP just to gear?

Why are people seriously crying about on average someone having 2% more stats than them?

Jesus.

Wait for the season to start and start farming rating if you care about your negligible stat increase so much.

[Sencha]

Yes, that's why you have competitive PvP on tournament realms. On live it's all fair game. 1% advantage in stats is negligible. And seriously, if someone have managed to spend time to do both PvE and PvP he should have an edge (even then, 1-5% stats is not what makes you lose or win the match. Please do tell me about every single game of yours is being neck-to-neck fight with enemy healer surviving at 1% before his miracle comes off CD) over those who pick only PvP. It reminds me of "but i'm a casual pet battle player, i should be able to get all pets without participating in raids or dungeons!"

Fully agree with this.

[Deleted]

No longer a special Unicorn then, are they? What we now have is a skilled PvPer who has taken the time to earn a deserved advantage through playing both formats. If they ain't skilled the insignificant power gap won't help them overcome the disadvantage of having no skill.

We have to assume both are equally skilled, the one with better stats wins more often. This is not acceptable in competitive pvp game, and yes, the pvp is a competitive pvp part of wow.

Its simply retarded that to play pvp competitively, you have to play pve all the way to mythic. People though human racial was op because it allowed additional trinket, this is exact same thing only even worse.

Also lol@ pet battle comparison, pvp arena/rbg aint collectible pokemon card game. The entire point of pets is that they are discovered from the world.

Pvp is about battling against other humans who are playing their classes, its about finding out whos better warlock, better druid etc. There is no place for gear in any of this, when it comes to competitive pvp.

I dont care your normal battlegrounds or world pvp which isnt fair by definition, if you wanna ez stomp people with overgeared character then go ahead, but dont pretend this is acceptable in rated and formatted pvp.

Blizzard themselves said they want pvp to be equal ground for all, thats the fucking reason they introduced these templat stats. For some reason they didnt want to upset special dragonslaying unicorns, so they decided to let them have an edge at the cost of integrity of pvp.

Also, its not like few % is not important.

[MasterHamster]

Because effort usually pays off in MMOs.

[Deleted]

Because effort usually pays off in MMOs.

That is flawed reasoning.

Effort in pve should pay off in pve, but not vice versa

Effort in pvp should pay off in pvp, but not vice versa.

That is how it worked in Wod and I don't see why this had to change again.

[Deleted]

In pvp, effort pays of as becoming better and defeating your opponents.

Its fucking unbelieveable I actually have to explain why this is retarded. Apparently thread full of special dragonslayers.

[Zafire]

You wont even notice 3%.

[Deleted]

You wont even notice 3%.

Hah people noticed the trinket benefits from human racials even. 3% is quite alot considering how much dmg abilities do, especially combined in arenas. You will see more competitive pvp people are gonna complain about this.