Withered Army Training - Short end of the stick?

[Deleted]

FWIW the max rep you can get is 425 which is available from a score of 375 onwards

I got a score of 500+ today (DH, vengance), looted 2 big chests and ended up with 4x100 reps and 1x50 rep.
Also got some permanent bonuses and a mobile banking worth 20k

Died because this 52 million insane mob in a room with endless spider spawns that kill off witheres fast.
Dro was a joke in comparison.

[Fascinate]

You sure its not that Withered are being bumped off the platform by mobs and fall down, aggroing the mobs at the bottom?

Nope, unless those tiny spiders have a knockback (this is when the basement got pulled on my last run).

[Anastacy]

Are people making sure to use their Extra Action button?

One mode makes the withered follow you closely and only attack your target. The other mode makes them deal more damage, but they will attack random targets and aggro extra stuff. Swapping between the two as needed is helpful in getting further along.

[madmossy]

I got a score of 500+ today (DH, vengance), looted 2 big chests and ended up with 4x100 reps and 1x50 rep.
Also got some permanent bonuses and a mobile banking worth 20k

Died because this 52 million insane mob in a room with endless spider spawns that kill off witheres fast.
Dro was a joke in comparison.

Endless spiders stop when you engage the spider boss at the top of the steps, after that your done, you've come to the end of the scenario.

[Ilir]

Are people making sure to use their Extra Action button?

One mode makes the withered follow you closely and only attack your target. The other mode makes them deal more damage, but they will attack random targets and aggro extra stuff. Swapping between the two as needed is helpful in getting further along.

I don't have any issues with the normal mobs, it's just a freaking nightborne with 30m health that spawns out of nowhere that trishots me. I dunno where it came from. It always spawns when I'm near the spidery elves.

Tho I still manage to get 400~ rep so that's not as bad as I thought.

[Frozenbeef]

Barely any of my withered survived so couldn't take chests

[KaPe]

Barely any of my withered survived so couldn't take chests

You might want to hold off on recruiting extra Withered until you deal with Dro - assuming you plan on going further, that is. He's an absolute asshole and can slaughter your minions easily, but if you leave enough friendlies to grab later on, it should let you get an extra chest or so. Assuming you don't get unlucky with cocoons and only find hostile mobs.

[Deleted]

Endless spiders stop when you engage the spider boss at the top of the steps, after that your done, you've come to the end of the scenario.

Whats best, go for big chests or finish the scenario. Rep wise ?

[Biomega]

Whats best, go for big chests or finish the scenario. Rep wise ?

For rep, score should be the only thing that matters.

[Hydrofluoric]

I've been feeling this from most of the tanks big time so far. It seems really stupid to me how much self healing tanks are doing... isn't that my job as the healer? Tanks shouldn't doing half of the healing from a pull... it's even worse than it was in WoD.

Some tank classes are just like that. Blood DK and Veng DH are reactionary tanks, most of their 'mitigation' isn't actually from taking reduced damage, but from gaining health to replace the taken damage.

But I agree with you, their playstyles are fine, but they need the amount they heal reduced.

[Ifeanychukwu]

It wasn't even hyperbole, my mage usually runs with a DH tank and he regularly takes #1 healing done in dungeons, beating the healer (close, but beating). It's completely out of control, nothing can ever kill him. He laughed in my face when I complained about the Withered Army thing.

Yeah it's really annoying as a healer too. Demon hunters may be the worst but all of the tanks have ridiculous self healing. I thought they were supposed to be balancing classes to do their own role, not so tanks can be one man armies.

- - - Updated - - -

Some tank classes are just like that. Blood DK and Veng DH are reactionary tanks, most of their 'mitigation' isn't actually from taking reduced damage, but from gaining health to replace the taken damage.

But I agree with you, their playstyles are fine, but they need the amount they heal reduced.

Don't know much about playstyles but yeah, self healing is totally broken right now. Was just in a heroic with a geared DK, we pulled a group then the dps somehow managed to aggro 2 extra groups which should have been a wipe but we somehow survived. I popped tranquility, my artifact AND incarnation and STILL was out healed by the DK, like what the fuck?

[cruxxy]

Don't know much about playstyles but yeah, self healing is totally broken right now. Was just in a heroic with a geared DK, we pulled a group then the dps somehow managed to aggro 2 extra groups which should have been a wipe but we somehow survived. I popped tranquility, my artifact AND incarnation and STILL was out healed by the DK, like what the fuck?

So are you saying you were not needed for the group to run the instance? I've seen the meters too. My guildies joke about me being a bad healer because I'm losing on the meters, but the meters have no relevance to the dungeon run. Now I've not tapped into PvP yet but I'm more concerned about the amount of self-healing in that setting. Discuss the functionality not the meters

[Progressiv]

I'm done with this game tbh.

I'm seriously thinking of unsubbing.

=> can't do the holy artefact quest 'cause alonsus faol is MIA from my order hall.

Fucking nightborne spawning in the scenario literally killing me in 3 sec or killing my army.

Fuck this game. i wouldn't mind if the freaking dungeons weren't locked behind a rep grind.

Please tell me there's something I'm missing about this nightborne because atm it's really pissing me off.

kk bye 10 chars thing.

[lightofdawn]

This quest is just awful as shadow, i watched towelliee do it as prot paladin it literally makes me sick how easy it is for prot specs.

it is easier for prot paladins because of our ridiculous aoe damage potential. but healers can heal their army, which is really nice. and dps has the bonus of its damage output. each spec has its own strengths for it, and it's not meant to be something that you can go all out with in one or two days, each day go for one of the 5 or 10 withered chests to upgrade your army, and you'll keep going farther with less and less difficulty

- - - Updated - - -

I'm done with this game tbh.

I'm seriously thinking of unsubbing.

=> can't do the holy artefact quest 'cause alonsus faol is MIA from my order hall.

Fucking nightborne spawning in the scenario literally killing me in 3 sec or killing my army.

Fuck this game. i wouldn't mind if the freaking dungeons weren't locked behind a rep grind.

Please tell me there's something I'm missing about this nightborne because atm it's really pissing me off.

lmao, what?

[Deleted]

it is easier for prot paladins because of our ridiculous aoe damage potential. but healers can heal their army, which is really nice. and dps has the bonus of its damage output. each spec has its own strengths for it, and it's not meant to be something that you can go all out with in one or two days, each day go for one of the 5 or 10 withered chests to upgrade your army, and you'll keep going farther with less and less difficulty

Healers can't heal their army though. Try it out, go in and kill a bit, then check around to find a damaged withered. Heal him to full and watch what happens with his hp.

[KaPe]

Healers can't heal their army though. Try it out, go in and kill a bit, then check around to find a damaged withered. Heal him to full and watch what happens with his hp.

Not only that, but I believe that Shadowmend dot still hurts them, so it's twice as bad. Shields work fine, but that doesn't really help against aoe damage.

[Gonder]

Honestly, this expansion has already taught me that I'll be sticking in Holy for the majority of the time. I haven't started Suramar yet, though when I do, and when I start the army training, I wouldn't be surprised if Holy Nova spam performs infinitely better on AoE than anything the ordinary Shadow player can pull off (without dying).

[Ifeanychukwu]

So are you saying you were not needed for the group to run the instance? I've seen the meters too. My guildies joke about me being a bad healer because I'm losing on the meters, but the meters have no relevance to the dungeon run. Now I've not tapped into PvP yet but I'm more concerned about the amount of self-healing in that setting. Discuss the functionality not the meters

It's not really about the meters. I gave that example to give you an idea of how overpowered that tanks healing was. All of those cooldowns were simply to keep the group alive, I hardly healed the tank at all. That pull should have wiped us, we pulled at least 3-4 groups unintentionally. Every group of these were throwing out poison and ground AoE and all kinds of shit, the damage was just insane yet the tank was self healing through all of it while I blew literally every single cool down I had to keep the group alive. I didn't have any time at all to heal the tank because of how much damage was going out to the rest of the group.

So the tank pulled the first group, one of the dps pulls another group and someone else grabs another couple of packs somehow. This is some particularly nasty trash and I'm undergeared at the moment so I didn't expect we'd survive so I decided to just go all out just for the hell of it. The whole group is taking massive damage from poison and melee attacks at the same time because the tank doesn't have aggro at this point so I cast ironbark on the person closest to death and immediately cast tranquility which barely kept us alive (except the tank whose health barely moved). As soon as that ended I activated my artifact ability, dropped my mushroom and cast wild growth then popped incarnation, innervate and spammed regrowths just barely keeping the group alive. There was so much damage going out I didn't have time to cleanse any poison or anything. Most of this healing was on the group though, I only had to cast regrowth on the tank a couple of times and maybe a single swiftmend. I'd done nearly 220k hps at the end of the pull and had still healed less than the tank.

I don't really care about the meters. I just feel like it's weird that tanks can practically solo trash packs. It makes healing them a little boring unless you find yourself with a truly bad tank or something goes horribly wrong.

[Deleted]

I am managing well as shadow here, 842 ilvl.

I take mindbomb and just make sure with the elementals that cast explode sub 20% to stun them. I burst them down reasonably fast so the 1 interupt is enough.

The hardest part I found was leystalker, but even then did ok. started vs him with 20 withered, finished with 13. I just popped all cds dotted him and made withered go ham, when hed zerg me to sub 30% id fade and let him kill a withered as I healed. Once I had him back on me and dotted, id mc him and let dots tick. Then id instant fade and redot, mc, rinse repeat.

Are we as good as a Prot Paladin here? Hell No.
Can we still handle it and get a damned resonable score if not complete and get that sweet Artifact skin? Yes.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Welcome to Legion, the tank expansion.

DHs can solo all the 5-man rare WQs with ease, too, as they're literally immortal and heal more than a healer in dungeons. I imagine they'll walk all over this and laugh so hard the score goes up by >9000.

I cleared everything yesterday as a blood DK - score at the end was 584.