America turning over control of the internet.

[Deleted]

Not if a significant portion of them aren't secular democracies. It would become a similar charade as the UN Human Rights Council with shitpiles like Saudi Arabia in the lead -- except that this time they would genuinely have direct influence over everyone's freedoms, instead of just passing out supremely biased resolutions that any sane person can just ignore.

It's worse than that. There's a reason the UN in general has turned to shit. Because highly corrupt countries aswell as amoral dictatorships are part of it and exert the same if not more influence than the democratic countries which initially founded it. Countries like China, Saudi Arabia and others are known to directly rig elections and buy votes.

Cruz is a nutter but people using him to act as if there wasn't a problem with handing these people decision making powers for the internet at large and influence is a huge disaster and that is what is effectively happening here.

I was under the impression those countries were already doing that, such as the problem with censorship in China in particular. Is it that now that censorship could go both ways, and they'd prevent Americans from accessing those websites somehow?

It's more like they get to censor the internet for you aswell. Meaning this organization will decide that a website is "bad" and then try to forcecountries across the globe to block it. I.e it's as if China is handed the reigns to censor American media and purge anything they dislike. Because that is what it will ultimatively turn into.

There is no issue. People who think there is an issue fundamentally don't understand what ICANN does, and how they work. They have no physical 'control' over anything. All they do is try to coordinate, and set standards for how everything will hopefully agree to do everything. But they have no actual control. If Russia wants to make some Rusnet on completely different protocols, they can, and there's nothing ICANN can do to stop them.

"You can always make your own internet!" How about we from the get go do not hand the current existing internet to countries such as China or Saudi Arabia and not allowing them to influence decision making processes on censorship and what is acceptable across the globe?

[Tyrianth]

Just lol. Pants on fire lie by Cruz though that's to be expected from a reality denier republican.

This is the same man who called universal health care slavery isn't it?

Edit: Nope, it was Rand Paul.

[Independent voter]

I wonder if that means we'll lose .gov?

Every country on Earth could make use of .gov not just the US. cia.gov fbi.gov nsa.gov etc

It came from a time when people didn't realize that the internet would be a thing in other countries too.

[Provenance]

Yeh cus cruz wouldnt hand it over to some jesus freak group to censor everything non christian.

Can we possibly make a point about disagreeing with the moral standards of Christianity by using your big boy words? It is possible to make your statement without looking like a total cunt.

Here is an example in case you don't know what I mean:

"I dislike this source because Ted Cruz has a heavy bias towards Christian moral standards. Those don't apply to me so I would find it hard to have the same objections as he does when it comes to handing over internet censorship to an international group."

[Polyxo]

It's worse than that. There's a reason the UN in general has turned to shit. Because highly corrupt countries aswell as amoral dictatorships are part of it and exert the same if not more influence than the democratic countries which initially founded it. Countries like China, Saudi Arabia and others are known to directly rig elections and buy votes.

Cruz is a nutter but people using him to act as if there wasn't a problem with handing these people decision making powers for the internet at large and influence is a huge disaster and that is what is effectively happening here.


It's more like they get to censor the internet for you aswell. Meaning this organization will decide that a website is "bad" and then try to forcecountries across the globe to block it. I.e it's as if China is handed the reigns to censor American media and purge anything they dislike. Because that is what it will ultimatively turn into.


"You can always make your own internet!" How about we from the get go do not hand the current existing internet to countries such as China or Saudi Arabia and not allowing them to influence decision making processes on censorship and what is acceptable across the globe?

It's a non-existent consideration. ICANN has no mechanism to censor the internet. They have no physical control over internet access or content. It's like fretting over USB transfer protocols, thinking some corporation will 'censor your data'. All ICANN does is coordinate how things communicate with one another over the internet at large, so they work correctly with one another.

You're not 'handing' anything to anyone. Internet access is not 'controlled' from anywhere. It's controlled only by the devices that host access points (such as servers that host websites), and the infrastructure that connect those points together. The only people that 'control the internet' are the people that literally control those physical things, and only the specific things they control. You fundamentally do not understand how the internet works.

[Yvaelle]

^ As polyxo said above, the US doesn't control the internet today in the way that Ted Cruz makes it out.

Think of it this way:

Who has control over your house? You, generally, right?

Who has control over all the houses in your neighbourhood? The homeowners of your neighbourhood, generally, right?

Who has control over all the houses in the world? The homeowners of the world, generally, right?

There isn't some US Department of Controlling All The World's Homes, the way Cruz seems to imply is the case of the internet.

Now swap out houses for servers, switches, or lines - swap out homeowners for server admins, telecom giants, etc.

[Annoying]

Not if a significant portion of them aren't secular democracies. It would become a similar charade as the UN Human Rights Council with shitpiles like Saudi Arabia in the lead -- except that this time they would genuinely have direct influence over everyone's freedoms, instead of just passing out supremely biased resolutions that any sane person can just ignore.

And again, Saudi Arabia doesn't lead the UNHRC. South Korea leads the UNHRC. SA simply has leadership of one of the panels. There are dozens of panels.

[satimy]

Wouldn't an independent international organization with 162 member countries be less likely to be swayed by political interests as it relates to information access? Not sure why this is an issue, we have Republicans like Trump who are signing agreements with anti-pornography groups who want to limit pornography access in the United States.

Cruz is probably fear mongering due to evangelical Christians' concerns about one world government entities heralding the end times or something similar.

Fuck the rest of the world, compromising sovereignty makes slaves

[Masark]

Fuck the rest of the world, compromising sovereignty makes slaves

So sovereignty for me but not for thee?

Because that's the effect of the status quo with the US Department of Commerce having effective veto authority over the activities of ICANN and IANA.

[Polyxo]

So sovereignty for me but not for thee?

Because that's the effect of the status quo with the US Department of Commerce having effective veto authority over the activities of ICANN and IANA.

I'm sure the DoC doesn't want to have anything to do with ICANN either. There's some bureaucrat in the Dept. that probably has to have some sitdown meeting about something he doesn't understand every other day or something, for every little thing ICANN does.

[Poopymonster]

^ As polyxo said above, the US doesn't control the internet today in the way that Ted Cruz makes it out.

Think of it this way:

Who has control over your house? You, generally, right?

Who has control over all the houses in your neighbourhood? The homeowners of your neighbourhood, generally, right?

Who has control over all the houses in the world? The homeowners of the world, generally, right?

There isn't some US Department of Controlling All The World's Homes, the way Cruz seems to imply is the case of the internet.

Now swap out houses for servers, switches, or lines - swap out homeowners for server admins, telecom giants, etc.

They are gambling on people's ignorance of this.

[spinner981]

I think people are loosing the message to the messenger

90% of the posts in this thread are basically "ZOMG! Cruz is such a crazy zealot conspiracy theorist!" or something. Though the only real criticism I've seen of him is by other politicians saying they just don't really like the guy. But that doesn't stop the internet from demonizing him, and of course the secular side of the web is all too willing to mock him for having beliefs that are different from their own.

Concerning the actual topic of the thread. No, I don't think we should just hand over control of the internet. Why on earth do we think that countries like China, Russia and Iran will somehow positively contribute and not just censor stuff?

[Polyxo]

90% of the posts in this thread are basically "ZOMG! Cruz is such a crazy zealot conspiracy theorist!" or something. Though the only real criticism I've seen of him is by other politicians saying they just don't really like the guy. But that doesn't stop the internet from demonizing him, and of course the secular side of the web is all too willing to mock him for having beliefs that are different from their own.

Concerning the actual topic of the thread. No, I don't think we should just hand over control of the internet. Why on earth do we think that countries like China, Russia and Iran will somehow positively contribute and not just censor stuff?

Iran, China and Russia already censor their local access to internet. ICANN does not, and can not stop that, nor have they, or could they ever. Russia, Iran, and China will continue to censor their local networks in the forseeable future, and ICANN will continue to have no influence whatsoever on who does, or does not censor networks within their sovereign territory.

Either Ted Cruz is exactly the ignorant, crazy, zealot conspiracy theorist everyone says he is, or he's banking on his supporters being that type as well, and lapping up his misinformation.

[In Ogres We Trust]

I don't know enough about the topic at hand, i.e. I don't care about the topic, nor do I care enough to research it, but in my opinion, anything that was developed by Americans should always stay in the hands of Americans, e.g. the Panama Canal, the Internet (in this case), whatever... .

[Deleted]

It's a non-existent consideration. ICANN has no mechanism to censor the internet. They have no physical control over internet access or content. It's like fretting over USB transfer protocols, thinking some corporation will 'censor your data'. All ICANN does is coordinate how things communicate with one another over the internet at large, so they work correctly with one another.

You're not 'handing' anything to anyone. Internet access is not 'controlled' from anywhere. It's controlled only by the devices that host access points (such as servers that host websites), and the infrastructure that connect those points together. The only people that 'control the internet' are the people that literally control those physical things, and only the specific things they control. You fundamentally do not understand how the internet works.

Even if an organization has no real control over anything, there's still the question of principles and moralities. Any act that increases the influence of Russia, China, Iran, SA and other similar shitholes in any matter is completely idiotic and immoral. Give the devil a finger...

[Polyxo]

Even if an organization has no real control over anything, there's still the question of principles and moralities. Any act that increases the influence of Russia, China, Iran, SA and other similar shitholes in any matter is completely idiotic and immoral. Give the devil a finger...

No, there isn't. That's not what ICANN does.