Peoples thoughts on Retribution in a raid environment?

[Pu3Ho]

Here is my own observation so far. I played paladin ret since vanilla.

the rotation is very interesting and hard to master. especially if you use execution sentence talent.

Can't stop laughing

[Vanderhuge]

don´t even go there! Wings is now the most boring cool down you can have with no game play changes if has to be boring then at least let it add some mention able dmg.
don´t ask for what is long due and and even offer your first born for it.

To be fair, once you're through enough of Ashbringer, you won't use JV/DP in raids, which the only random aspect of the rotations. Everyone complained that things like Inquisition and procs were terrible, so they removed them from the base rotation. Now it's the opposite: people think it's stale and boring. Is love to see things like Inquisition/Empowered DS as talents.

[Maylander]

I've been a Ret on and off since vanilla (only in BGs back then, with the Prot/Ret Reckobomb build, as it wasn't really viable in raids, where I was Holy), and I'm enjoying it. It's hardly the pinnacle of Ret evolution, but it's far from the worst either, and I enjoy it a lot more than the likes of Havoc which is getting a lot of praise (yes, it does a ton of AoE trash damage, but that's about it. Vengeance is a lot more interesting, far more so than Protadins, but that's a different topic).

We're going to be viable in raids, of that I'm certain, but we're not likely to top the meters on a Patchwerk style fight anytime soon. On fights with a bit more variety we might actually stand a chance though, and I usually end up #1 in HCs/Mythics unless there's a Rogue or DH around.

As for what I like about it? Back in the days I swapped from Ret to Fury because I hated the whole Inquisition thing, especially combined with our lack of mobility, and I loved Fury mobility + build Rage -> 5x Heroic Strike -> Colossus Smash -> nuke style of play. We still don't rival Fury in terms of mobility, but our burst is more interesting than theirs. Builders and spenders work a lot better if you have to put at least a bit of thought into what to do, so I'm not actually a fan of how Ret turns into a "keep up Judgement" at 30% haste - I would prefer something closer to the original Colossus Smash burst window style.

Anyway, this is a bit of a rant, but the bottom line is that I find it enjoyable. It's not fantastic, but it's hardly terrible either, and there aren't that many specs I'd seriously rate as more fun or interesting (I've tried them all in 7.0, and the only one with anything resembling complexity is WW).

[Caramuru]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

You know, as soon as the pre patch hit I dreaded ret. I loathed it with a passion due to the rework.
No more execute, no more this no more that. I searched everywhere trying to find a new class to main. Maybe dh? Maybe enhance shaman? Something anything that seemed like a more fun "oomph" play style.

Then legion hit. And off I went leveling my ret. why? Because I can't see myself investing so many days /played on another class.

Fast forward to today, and being 837 Ilevel. How's it feel? It feels great. Top the meters easily in dungeons. Only competition are DH, which are a dime a dozen, hunters and their literally 2 button rotation, and rogues. Who look fun but their attack animations sound off.

It isn't that bad!

Going far left all the way down kinda sucks. But it's the only one that makes it feel fun. Tried crusade, it's great when wings are up, but harkons back to WoD days and being cool down dependent.

And JV is a great thing to dump DP procs. I mean what other ability crits for over a million? It's nice to see.

Dabbled in a little Pvp as well and ret is in a good spot. Sure mobility is weak and derpony is annoying but when you catch up to someone it's pretty much it

I just really miss hammer of wrath. Something that's been a staple of paladin since their inception? Or maybe a few months after. . .

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why is it all the retort going around is "Ret is not THAT bad"?

Why noone is saying "Ret is THAT good" ?

[Deleted]

Why is it all the retort going around is "Ret is not THAT bad"?

Why noone is saying "Ret is THAT good" ?

cuz that would trigger a crawler written by blizz, instantly triggering a nerf cycle for rets

[Maylander]

cuz that would trigger a crawler written by blizz, instantly triggering a nerf cycle for rets

TO THE GROUND!

I will never forget the WotLK pre-patch nerf situation. Hilarious now. Not so funny back then.

[Wrecktangle]

Fast forward to today, and being 837 Ilevel. How's it feel? It feels great. Top the meters easily in dungeons.

So you state you're topping meters in dungeons. You also state you're going down full left side, so you're using Blade of Virtue instead of Blade of Wrath? Just trying to discern what you're doing that I am not.

I'm assuming you're doing mythics with similarly geared players when you're "topping" meters right? Or are you doing Heroics with undergeared players and beating them?

You top the meters on bosses? On trash? Both?

A little context goes a long way here.

The reason I'm curious is because I watched an ARMs warrior obliterate the meters in mythics with 20 less ilvl than me, I've seen DH's, rogues, and hunters do the same too with less ilvl. For reference: ex raider with numerous 99% parses, so I know my way around an encounter a little bit.

[Deleted]

Well gonna see how it works out but tbh it is the first time for ages that i think about having it all macroed in one button and just pity myself for my standing in meters.

[Deleted]

Well gonna see how it works out but tbh it is the first time for ages that i think about having it all macroed in one button and just pity myself for my standing in meters.

key 1 dps macro rest of the keyboard weep emote

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well gonna see how it works out but tbh it is the first time for ages that i think about having it all macroed in one button and just pity myself for my standing in meters.

Well Ret is guaranteed to be middle of the middle of the pack, albeit lacking all utility that justified Ret's presence in raids in past.
So there's that, I guess.

[Deleted]

Single target damage and rotation becomes solid at proper gear levels. Also, really damn fast with Crusade.
(I am currenctly ilvl 843, 859 Ashbringer, 26.5% haste, 25.1% crit, 18 trait route to A2A)

So far I have got better results in 5mans using Zeal+Divine Hammer as my generators, doing decently on trash pulls with those. Can't come close to a DH in cleave, but I usually come second or first if the trash dies within the time window of 3 Divine Storms and Wake of Ashes.
For single target I have been using Blade of Wrath but now I am trying out Blade of Virtue because of the high crit and the insane haste values during Crusade. The opening burst from Crusade>Judgement>JV>Wake>JV is pretty mental.
Outside of Crusade the damage is still mediocre/good - the high haste means I am always pressing buttons and I can fit 3 spenders into most Judgement windows.
Generally I am competing with rogues/hunters/monks for dps spots. DHs and mages still usually outperform me. Can't really compare with DKs and warriors because no one in our roster is maining dps on those.

In casual/semi-hardcore raiding the spec will probably work nicely. Same for Mythic+ dungeons, ret brings strong CC, self sustain, a few oh-shit buttons that are good in small group content.
The raid utility is probably too low for the damage in cutting-edge Mythic raiding, but our cheat-death mechanics (the autobubble talent and the legendary wrist) and retribution passive will still let us have some niche roles at the worst - if an ability has to be soaked and would kill a single player (like Black Hole on Xhul) comes in once a minute, then a single Ret with the wrist can ward off 3 in a row and not die for it.

[Caramuru]

So you state you're topping meters in dungeons. You also state you're going down full left side, so you're using Blade of Virtue instead of Blade of Wrath? Just trying to discern what you're doing that I am not.

I'm assuming you're doing mythics with similarly geared players when you're "topping" meters right? Or are you doing Heroics with undergeared players and beating them?

You top the meters on bosses? On trash? Both?

A little context goes a long way here.

The reason I'm curious is because I watched an ARMs warrior obliterate the meters in mythics with 20 less ilvl than me, I've seen DH's, rogues, and hunters do the same too with less ilvl. For reference: ex raider with numerous 99% parses, so I know my way around an encounter a little bit.

I got bored with ret gameplay and just went holy tbh. Bosses really are the only area we can compete and even then I've found the more geared the other dps are the less we "top" anything.