Average 60k dps as shadow , is this ok?

[Buiak101]

Lol, and they say "Play what you like..."

[justflayin]

Lol, and they say "Play what you like..."

Well, you should play what you like.

[GT4]

Artifact denpendent sure, but who's spec isn't dependent on their artifact. Shadow's roadblock is gear. We also perform better on things that live longer. If thing are dying in like 30 secs that's not enough time for us to get dmg going.

Shadow is more dependent on gear and artifact compared to basically all other classes' DPS specs. The only one that comes close is arms warrior (slightly more artifact dependent, less gear dependent though).

[justflayin]

Shadow is more dependent on gear and artifact compared to basically all other classes' DPS specs. The only one that comes close is arms warrior (slightly more artifact dependent, less gear dependent though).

I didn't say we weren't dependent on it but the argument could be made for ANY class/spec. one of BM's talents gives Hati the abilities of a normal BM pet, blood DK has a trait that give them more absorbtion, Arms aoe collousus smash, etc etc.

[GT4]

I didn't say we weren't dependent on it but the argument could be made for ANY class/spec. one of BM's talents gives Hati the abilities of a normal BM pet, blood DK has a trait that give them more absorbtion, Arms aoe collousus smash, etc etc.

No, it cannot because there's something called numbers which you can get using something called simulations. Most classes get ~35-50% more DPS when going from no artifact to full artifact. Some get up to 60% (SV/Sub). Arms and SP are the only ones in the 70%-80% range which objectively makes them the most dependent on their artifact.

The fact that you mention tanks when I specifically spoke about DPS specs (the only ones where it makes sense comparing to) just shows that you haven't even bothered to think about what I've written.

[justflayin]

No, it cannot because there's something called numbers which you can get using something called simulations. Most classes get ~35-50% more DPS when going from no artifact to full artifact. Some get up to 60% (SV/Sub). Arms and SP are the only ones in the 70%-80% range which objectively makes them the most dependent on their artifact.

The fact that you mention tanks when I specifically spoke about DPS specs (the only ones where it makes sense comparing to) just shows that you haven't even bothered to think about what I've written.

I mentioned tanks because it applies to every class and spec like i said. You're picking an argument with me why? I agree with everythign you're saying we just obviously differ in opinions on something minor. Jesus.

[GT4]

I mentioned tanks because it applies to every class and spec like i said. You're picking an argument with me why? I agree with everythign you're saying we just obviously differ in opinions on something minor. Jesus.

You're saying my argument can be made for any class/spec when it cannot. Only SPs and arms warriors are more dependent on their artifact than other DPS specs (based on actual evidence and not opinion). This doesn't apply to any other DPS spec, let alone all others (and once again, comparing to tanks and healers makes no sense because we're not comparing our DPS to them either). This isn't about opinions but about you simply making a false claim.

[justflayin]

You're saying my argument can be made for any class/spec when it cannot. This isn't about opinions but about you simply making a false claim.

It's not false. Claiming people gain nothing from their artifact is false. Last time im speaking on this.

[GT4]

It's not false. Claiming people gain nothing from their artifact is false. Last time im speaking on this.

Please show me where I (or any other person for that matter) ever made that claim. This is the most ridiculous straw man I've seen in quite a while. Either you're extremely disingenuous or you're lacking any reading comprehension whatsoever.

[KaPe]

Mass Hysteria with Surrender to Madness is probably the biggest Artifact gain in the game. It's also the most gimmicky one, contributing to Shadow's problems.

[Ilir]

60k is way too low. Even outside of execute range.

Maybe post some logs or something or tell us what you do usually (also your talents).

[Video Games]

On 4 trash packs i do 300k and single bosses i do like 150-170 in mythics. Learn to use void from optimally. I know its not always easy to know when, but its a git gud problem

[Vampiregenesis]

these are my talents http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...or#Xba!1211102

i know tos is better but it doesnt matter on the dummy anyway.

What im doing is -> shadow word pain -> vampiric touch -> mind blast -> mind flay -> trying to refresh dots before voidform->voidform->voidtorrent+powerinfusion->void bolt->shadowfiend->mindblast+voidbolt and mindflay filler etc (up to this point i may reach up to 80k dps) when i exit voidform my dps start to fall and approach 70k , i may be able to sustain around 71-75k until next void form but i wont have void torrent+pi+shadowfiend on the next one so the dps increase wont be too much.

[Grv]

Shadow is only good for single target and high level mythic+ dungeons and even then, why not take another class which is more reliable destroying packs with AoE.

Shadow is beast for single target and less than 4 targets. I don't care too much of being TOP in damage when adds appear, i always top dps on boss.

ilvl 843

[Alexieel]

these are my talents http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...or#Xba!1211102

i know tos is better but it doesnt matter on the dummy anyway.

What im doing is -> shadow word pain -> vampiric touch -> mind blast -> mind flay -> trying to refresh dots before voidform->voidform->voidtorrent+powerinfusion->void bolt->shadowfiend->mindblast+voidbolt and mindflay filler etc (up to this point i may reach up to 80k dps) when i exit voidform my dps start to fall and approach 70k , i may be able to sustain around 71-75k until next void form but i wont have void torrent+pi+shadowfiend on the next one so the dps increase wont be too much.

You should open with mindblast, to get faster in the Voidform. Applying both dots before the first MB wastes 3sec of the Mindblast CD.
Also at lower gear level without S2M, it is the best to cast Void Torrent as late as possible, since it gains so much from the additional Haste. Also PI right after Void Form isn't the optimal way, since the extra Insanity generation is wasted at the start of the Void Form, when the Insanity drain is still low.

I go with -> MB -> SW: P -> VT ->MF/MB Spam -> SW: P (since SW: P expires before 1. VBolt) -> VErruption, MB/MF, VB, MB/MF ..... and would start PI at around 16-18 stacks, casting Void Torrent right after a Void Bolt (so you can cast VBolt - Void Torrent - VBolt) when your about to drop VF in the next second(s), so you can get an extra VB and MB right after the Void Torrent, to stay a bit longer in Void Form, together with the generated Insanity from AS during Void Torrent.

But maybe this isnt optimal either
But I managed to pull 260k dps on a boss, without PI since I have Shadow Crash for the trash, and without S2M since I go with LotV, but with Bloodlust on pull. But this was the first Boss in Vault of the Wardens, didnt had to move except for the last 10sec.
Also around 300-400k dps on 3-5mob Trash depending on setup (Voidform at start available or not etc..) ilvl is around 836 or so.

[Deleted]

That's too low, you should of hit 100k around lvl 105 and never drop below that.

[Rumstein]

First, Open with MB.

For efficiency, I would then use VT before SW:P, as if you SW:P before VT SW:P will likely expire way too early. If you VT -> SW:P, depending on Spirit procs you may not need to reapply without VB. In addition, VT deals slighty more damage than SW:P total, but at a slower rate.

Then you spam MF with MB whenever it's off CD, until you hit ~85 Insanity (LotV) or 100. (85 is better than 75 if you have a MB ready to go, as you can almost cap Insanity with the first cast).

In VF, you want to spam VB as much as possible, so it will be something like this: VB MB MF VB MF MF VB until you get enough haste to just go VB MB VB MF VB.

VoiT as late as you can to get the best benefit from haste, similarly PI when you are having issues sustaining insanity (Usually 15-20 stacks) with VoiT towards the end of PI.

Your damage will benefit most from haste, and will probably be quite lacklustre without it.

[Deleted]

my ilvl is around 830 and average dps is around 145k

[zenkai]

I can damn near do that as my holy priest and I do more AE damage as holy vs shadow...

[Turaska]

60k isn't normal, absolutely no way.