Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[clavarnway]

Get Meatball! It's easy. From Polar's spreadsheet:

Meatball is quite simple to get. Simply go to the Brawler's Guild (Ironforge > Deeprun Tram > Jump down and there will be a tunnel right there)
and win a fight. A Mission should pop up on your Mission Board. Complete it and you will get a quest to go back and win 5 more matches.
Do the 5 matches and turn in the quest. From there, you should continue to be getting missions (4 more, one at a time when you complete
their respective quests) but will need to defeat up to (and including) Meatball to get some of the later missions!
Make sure you 200% these missions as all Missions after the first one give the quest item on the bonus!
After the 5th mission, simply return the item and Meatball will join you! Very simple and easy to get such an amazing champion!

[Polarthief]

Polar , if dont have a meatball and moroes, what is the best combination about followers and Order Advancement ?

And if possible to write what items use in followers, for example, probably Remulos need Druid of the claw item, because combination of that + talent give a lot of succefull chance no ?

Get Meatball! It's easy.

^. There is no "I don't have Meatball" because he's very easy, so I don't even consider making a roster without Meatball, in the same way I also don't consider making a roster without 7 champions (and with T7 troops if they can be kept alive on Shrooms/other class items).

As for items, all the items are on the spreadsheet. With the exception of Druid, refer to the "READ ME FIRST" tab to see what a build means for the items. (e.g., what items go into a "Success" build, etc).

[roi]

Dreamgrove Wardens seems a bit overkill, however I could see it being nice for the elite strike missions, so you don't lose your main followers for days. Other than that, depending on RNG and usage, you sometimes can barely keep a single ancient of war up at times.

[Nodoze]

Thanks everyone for the great discussions. I feel like I am learning much.

... @Nodoze you can make everything work, if you like Hunter or Paladin as a class, just play it, no point forcing yourself to level something you dislike just because their followers are 10% better or something (hard to quantify anyway). Hunter has some good followers like Hemet, and generally most benefit comes from follower ilvl and trinkets, the passive perks are just for extra oomph. ...

Marrilaife, Thanks. For my main(s) I play the classes that I enjoy and I like to be able to spec into multiple roles for diversity and versatility for my friends... With that in mind my Druid will likely be my main as it is the only class that can do all 4 roles (Tank, Heal, Ranged-DPS, Melee-DPS) with stealth to boot (though I likely won't worry about melee-DPS). I will likely also do a BM Hunter at least to collect pets as I like that ;-).

I would never pick my main character's class based on min/maxing side mechanics like Garrisons or the Champion systems... The questions regarding best classes for Champions from me are just for alts (fueling via bloods from my main(s)).

-----

Quick update & some observations from a returning player perspective... I parked my Balance Druid because my friend who I was leveling with had a family emergency and can't play and I don't want to leave him behind. Instead of creating my new 100 BM Hunter on my 2nd account I went ahead and just created a level 98 Vengeance DH on my main account and frankly am totally loving a DH for a solo character...

While leveling on my Balance Druid I was able to solo the star/mini-bosses on the map with rooting & self healing (sometimes dropping out of Moonkin form and popping all healing abilities and switching back). It was doable but sometimes tricky/close...

The Vengeance DH seems to have good DPS but is very survivable while leveling and I have had no issues with the star/mini-bosses. The V DH may be a little slower than alternatives on single mobs but is relatively very fast if I can group many mobs... Those mini-bosses aren't necessarily required for leveling but are a decent gauge to other new/returning players who are considering classes. My buddy is set on only playing Mages and I don't know that he could solo the mini-bosses while leveling...

Regarding alts... If I understand correctly, in 7.2.5, we should be able to upgrade our Heirlooms to get the extra experience to 110. That being said I really don't want to level alts from level 1 so that is a major consideration for me...

To some degree each person's time is money and if it is just for alts for mission farming it may be most cost effective to just do DH's (or DK's) on other servers (with Heirloom's) and then pay the $25 to transfer them over to your main server (assuming you can still have 2+ DK/DHs on the same server if you transfer them to that server). I guess you can min/max and save time by starting any class at level 100 but $60 each is substantially more than $25 each...

I am not sure I will do any of that at this point but just wanted to share my thoughts on options... I want to finish getting both my Druid and DH to 110 and finish fleshing out their followers and better understand the pros/cons of their followers before making any decisions... I also want to make sure I like do the blood farming thing first...

[Nodoze]

Thanks everyone for the great discussions. I feel like I am learning much.

... @Nodoze you can make everything work, if you like Hunter or Paladin as a class, just play it, no point forcing yourself to level something you dislike just because their followers are 10% better or something (hard to quantify anyway). Hunter has some good followers like Hemet, and generally most benefit comes from follower ilvl and trinkets, the passive perks are just for extra oomph. ...

Marrilaife, Thanks and I agree. For my main(s) I play the classes that I enjoy and I like to be able to spec into multiple roles for diversity and versatility for my friends... With that in mind my Druid will likely be my main as it is the only class that can do all 4 roles (Tank, Heal, Ranged-DPS, Melee-DPS) with stealth to boot (though I likely won't worry about melee-DPS). I will likely also do a BM Hunter at least to collect pets as I like that ;-).

I would never pick my main character's class based on min/maxing side mechanics like Garrisons or the Champion systems... The questions regarding best classes for Champions from me are just for alts (fueling via bloods from my main(s)).

-----

Quick update & some observations from a returning player perspective... I parked my Balance Druid because my friend who I was leveling with had a family emergency and can't play and I don't want to leave him behind. Instead of creating my new 100 BM Hunter on my 2nd account I went ahead and just created a level 98 Vengeance DH on my main account and frankly am totally loving a DH for a solo character...

While leveling on my Balance Druid I was able to solo the star/mini-bosses on the map with rooting & self healing (sometimes dropping out of Moonkin form and popping all healing abilities and switching back). It was doable but sometimes tricky/close...

The Vengeance DH seems to have good DPS but is very survivable while leveling and I have had no issues with the star/mini-bosses. The V DH may be a little slower than alternatives on single mobs but is relatively very fast if I can group many mobs... Those mini-bosses aren't necessarily required for leveling but are a decent gauge to other new/returning players who are considering classes. My buddy is set on only playing Mages and I don't know that he could solo the mini-bosses while leveling...

Regarding alts... If I understand correctly, in 7.2.5, we should be able to upgrade our Heirlooms to get the extra experience to 110. That being said I really don't want to level alts from level 1 so that is a major consideration for me...

To some degree each person's time is money and if it is just for alts for mission farming it may be most cost effective to just do DH's (or DK's) on other servers (with Heirloom's) and then pay the $25 to transfer them over to your main server (assuming you can still have 2+ DK/DHs on the same server if you transfer them to that server). I guess you can min/max and save time by starting any class at level 100 but $60 each is substantially more than $25 each...

I am not sure I will do any of that at this point but just wanted to share my thoughts on options... I want to finish getting both my Druid and DH to 110 and finish fleshing out their followers and better understand the pros/cons of their followers before making any decisions... I also want to make sure I do like the blood farming thing first...

[Deleted]

(at this point you should have your main and maybe even an off-spec at Concordance)

Only if you dont have a RL...

[Polarthief]

Only if you dont have a RL...

If you can do ~4 WQs a day (or ~12 every 3d) and you don't miss your Artifact Knowledge, you should easily have concordance on a single spec by now.

Regardless though, the AP you get from the Elite Strike is such a ridiculous loss compared to being ready for more Supply Elite Strikes or just doing the normal AP missions that pop up so frequently. Even if you have an insane RL, you can manage an Order Hall for literally 1-2 minutes every few hours when you get an alert on your phone.

PS: If your RL is as busy as you make it out to be, you're likely not raiding or doing high level M+ and probably don't care about Concordance/AP in the first place (it's such a minor gain to begin with). The argument of saying you have a life is legit a double-edged sword in cases like this.

[Lyvar]

Dreamgrove Wardens seems a bit overkill, however I could see it being nice for the elite strike missions, so you don't lose your main followers for days. Other than that, depending on RNG and usage, you sometimes can barely keep a single ancient of war up at times.

That means you are using your Ancient too often or Sylendra not often enough. I have no problems keeping those guys alive and should I ever get problems (basically on a long weekend without PC) I just park my troops and rely on my champions.

If you can do ~4 WQs a day (or ~12 every 3d) and you don't miss your Artifact Knowledge, you should easily have concordance on a single spec by now.

Regardless though, the AP you get from the Elite Strike is such a ridiculous loss compared to being ready for more Supply Elite Strikes or just doing the normal AP missions that pop up so frequently. Even if you have an insane RL, you can manage an Order Hall for literally 1-2 minutes every few hours when you get an alert on your phone.

PS: If your RL is as busy as you make it out to be, you're likely not raiding or doing high level M+ and probably don't care about Concordance/AP in the first place (it's such a minor gain to begin with). The argument of saying you have a life is legit a double-edged sword in cases like this.

I am raiding Heroic twice a week (at the moment once as it is clear after 1-2 hours) and do most of my emissaries. AK is up to date and I got Concordance yesterday. Concordance on two specs is nothing you can just assume like that.

[roi]

Elite Strike missions give as much ap as running arcway +15 twice

Fells good to get like 75 mil ap at once though.

[Polarthief]

So I've been trying a new build for pretty much every non-Reduction character (Meatball/Healing Item champions), and that's running Saddle (Carrots for most til I get enough Saddles) > Fetish > T2 Epic, and it's been going pretty well so far. It's also a healthy balance between T2 and Success builds (trading only 10% Base Success or 15% with a T2 for 10-15% Reduction PER champion). I've had to rely a tiny bit more on Meatball's energy balls (*snrk*) to get some of those ~180-195% missions to 200%, but that's why they're there. I'm keeping the spreadsheet as is, but just wanted to spread that info that a Reduction+T2+Success build does in fact work pretty well.

That said, Sylendra/Healer Item Champions still use Saddle+Carrot+Fetish, as does Meatball, and my one and only Moroes (on Druid) is still a fully optimized T2 without any reduction, but that's only because I'm out of Saddles, Embers, and Fetishes, so I'd rather not mess with things until I get more of the epic items.

Also the four exceptions to the above builds that I can recall immediately:
- T1 champions use their Epic T1 over Epic T2
- CAs/BGs, duh
- Svergan for Warriors (if I had a Warrior) would be using Epic T1 + Epic T2 + Fetish or Saddle using the above system (because his bonus is when you use two different troops).
- Valeera for Rogues (if I had a Rogue) would probably be using T7 (only epic exists) and a Fetish + Saddle. You could also build her with more or less Reduction, but since she'll almost always be paired with a T7, she's the only champion in the game I'd recommend running a T7 item on her.

I am raiding Heroic twice a week (at the moment once as it is clear after 1-2 hours)

You only get AP once per boss per week though...

and do most of my emissaries. AK is up to date and I got Concordance yesterday. Concordance on two specs is nothing you can just assume like that.

If you've been investing in multiple specs and you're a tad light on AP, you might not have Concordance yet. If you've invested everything in two specs though, you should be just about there.

I don't farm AP (AT ALL) and if I didn't dump millions into Feral/Resto, I'd have it on Guardian as well by now (currently 2 points away). Already had it on Balance since pre-hotfixes to it. Regardless though, pretty much everyone that's been keeping up should have Concordance by now (assuming everything invested in 1 spec). If not, people aren't keeping up.

That said, my whole point was that the AP Elite Strike is NOT worth it, not by a looooong shot. It'd have to be like a 1d or less mission for it to come even close to being relevant, not because of the AP to Time problem but because you also have to spam the Supply missions, the Nethershard missions (if you're a crazy believer of RNG for the new legendaries like my raid leader is), and still keep up with the other missions so they don't expire.

[Lyvar]

You only get AP once per boss per week though...

If you've been investing in multiple specs and you're a tad light on AP, you might not have Concordance yet. If you've invested everything in two specs though, you should be just about there.

I don't farm AP (AT ALL) and if I didn't dump millions into Feral/Resto, I'd have it on Guardian as well by now (currently 2 points away). Already had it on Balance since pre-hotfixes to it. Regardless though, pretty much everyone that's been keeping up should have Concordance by now (assuming everything invested in 1 spec). If not, people aren't keeping up.

That said, my whole point was that the AP Elite Strike is NOT worth it, not by a looooong shot. It'd have to be like a 1d or less mission for it to come even close to being relevant, not because of the AP to Time problem but because you also have to spam the Supply missions, the Nethershard missions (if you're a crazy believer of RNG for the new legendaries like my raid leader is), and still keep up with the other missions so they don't expire.

Apparently. That's why we raid heroic once a week at the moment - I just wanted to clarify Lyvar is an actively played raiding character.

Balance 36, Guardian 36, Resto 52. I doubt those 36 first points make up for the next 16 points. Agreed on the value of the Elite AP mission though.

[Nodoze]

I just got my DH to 110 (just has basic quest gear) though I still have quite a few quests in my logs on my DH to do... I still have my Druid on hold at level 105 for now waiting for my buddy's family to get out of the hospital.

I have almost burned through all the resources I accumulated so I was curious what the best things are I can do solo on either or both of my characters solo to keep my companions progressing and my resources flowing. I have limited time on the days I can get on (at most 2-3 hours) so I would like to focus on the biggest bangs for the limited time.

[Polarthief]

Apparently. That's why we raid heroic once a week at the moment - I just wanted to clarify Lyvar is an actively played raiding character.

Balance 36, Guardian 36, Resto 52. I doubt those 36 first points make up for the next 16 points. Agreed on the value of the Elite AP mission though.

Those numbers seem really low, esp if you've kept up with supplies, order hall, emissaries, and raided NH weekly.

I may be a no-lifer (more or less that I'm always on, not necessarily on Druid), but I really don't spend hours grinding AP (or even minutes really) outside of keeping up with the usual (listed) activities.

As of right now (the time this post is being typed), my numbers are B52/F43/G50/R49.

I just got my DH to 110 (just has basic quest gear) though I still have quite a few quests in my logs on my DH to do... I still have my Druid on hold at level 105 for now waiting for my buddy's family to get out of the hospital.

I have almost burned through all the resources I accumulated so I was curious what the best things are I can do solo on either or both of my characters solo to keep my companions progressing and my resources flowing. I have limited time on the days I can get on (at most 2-3 hours) so I would like to focus on the biggest bangs for the limited time.

A main with a lot of bloods is easily the best option, otherwise, doing all the resource WQs, Blood WQs (bloods of sargeras give 200 Resources each, and it's a Bind of Account cache too!), other ways to obtain bloods (gathering professions are pretty good if you like mindless farming), as well as EVERY Broken Shore WQ (except the Pet Battle ones). 100 Legionfall supplies turn in for gold, nethershards, decent chance at a legendary, and, of course, order hall resources. Emissary caches can also contain a nice pile.

I also recommend gearing out one CA/BG in resource items too.

[Marrilaife]

Those numbers seem really low, esp if you've kept up with supplies, order hall, emissaries, and raided NH weekly.

I may be a no-lifer (more or less that I'm always on, not necessarily on Druid), but I really don't spend hours grinding AP (or even minutes really) outside of keeping up with the usual (listed) activities.

As of right now (the time this post is being typed), my numbers are B52/F43/G50/R49.

Your numbers do look high for a person who "doesn't farm AP", my main is at 52/50/36, and that's the character I raid mythic on, not some alt.

But yeah I didn't give high priority to AP, I was always under the impression there's no point rushing for AP unless you're at max AK, so for example my mission sending prio was: gold > legionfall supplies > raid cache (no rush since it has like 10 day expiration) > follower equipment caches > rare non-expiration missions like bloods or augment runes > rep tokens ...... > AP, and with my routine of only sending missions twice per day (once after I wake up, another before going to sleep) AP was often the one getting skipped.

So yes, in that aspect the elite strike mission was also prioritizing legionfall supplies while de-prioritizing AP.

Also I don't really play my offspecs on my main so the only reason I put AP there are the extra paladin mount recolours you can get, from my info you need concordance in each spec for each mount recolour after you unlock the basic one (other classes that need concordance in all 3 specs for extra goodies except paladin are DK, Hunter and if I remember correctly, Rogue... then Monk, DH and Warlock need just in 1 spec, rest of the classes doesn't have anything special).

If I played offspecs actively, maybe I would prio AP more.

Druid is my alt and I have 45 in resto, 44 in bear and slowly working on boomkin towards the new golden.

I have almost burned through all the resources I accumulated so I was curious what the best things are I can do solo on either or both of my characters solo to keep my companions progressing and my resources flowing. I have limited time on the days I can get on (at most 2-3 hours) so I would like to focus on the biggest bangs for the limited time.

Get addon World Quest Group Finder or World Quest Assistant and suddenly any quest your character is too low geared for can be done by the other people in the group you join. Some people are dicks and simply leech in the air, I usually on low geared alts just follow some dude and hit his mobs but I don't kid myself an 800 ilvl char is gonna contribute much in a group of 880-900 ilvl people, but it's generally the way to go now for doing world quests fast and painlessly. I join groups manually from the drop down in objective window (don't like to put extra addons I don't crucially need) but the addon speeds up the clicking process of finding groups and applying to them. Most are on auto-invite anyway.

Also prio finishing your class campaign, not only it unlocks 3rd relic slot (and gives you relic for it) giving you a power spike, but also unlocks the broken shore quest for an extra champion and +1 to champion cap. Also after you recruit that champion you get extra daily on the Broken Shore which usually rewards massive OR or AP bounty in comparison to other "common" quests. I just noticed my fresh alts don't see this quest and it must be that, because it said so "recruiting the champion unlocks Broken Shore class quests", well these quests aren't really class exclusive, everyone has them, just if you're that one class it was made for you get some extra perks (for example on a warrior quest my warrior transforms into a valkyr that kills everything super fast, the other classes just get a generic dps buff).

If you happen to be around when invasion pops (Wowhead tracks the timer so you can plan if it's at convenient hours to check it out) it frequently spawns quests with bigger OR reward than normal quests (about +50% more), sometimes it's unlucky and all that spawns is AP / gold / gear rewards, but I tend to check it and if there is "kill this 1 demon for 700+ OR" quest, I cycle all my alts through that, groups are plentiful and the mobs die fast. It's also available to levelling characters but the rewards are different (OR / AP / bonus XP at random), worth snatching the OR, you can even XP lock a char if you're saving it for levelling with your friend and still grab the invasion quests, and then unlock xp when your friend is back.

[clavarnway]

I do my emissary, do probably 1-2 M+ every day, do heroic and normal NH every week, and working on Mythic NH - currently 6/10. I'm 52 resto/52 boomkin/49 bear/whatever feral. It really speeds up as you get more AK.

[Polarthief]

Your numbers do look high for a person who "doesn't farm AP", my main is at 52/50/36, and that's the character I raid mythic on, not some alt.

Oh fuck I forgot about Mythic kills and a single M+ 10 per week, rip me, that might explain the discrepancies! Granted, we've stopped doing most Mythic bosses since like 3-4 weeks ago and only did 0-1 bosses per week (we tried to get CE but last night we just stopped and we're halting all raiding til ToS).

That said, I've also noticed my AP gain has been getting rather stagnant the more AK I get (as I've been doing less and less, especially with the halting of Mythic NH). Once I get AK 40 though, I might care about it slightly more til every spec is 52. I'll definitely care a bit more when my alts go from 30 to 40 in 5 days.

But yeah I didn't give high priority to AP, I was always under the impression there's no point rushing for AP unless you're at max AK, so for example my mission sending prio was: gold > legionfall supplies > raid cache (no rush since it has like 10 day expiration) > follower equipment caches > rare non-expiration missions like bloods or augment runes > rep tokens ...... > AP, and with my routine of only sending missions twice per day (once after I wake up, another before going to sleep) AP was often the one getting skipped.

So yes, in that aspect the elite strike mission was also prioritizing legionfall supplies while de-prioritizing AP.

Also how I play, except instead of really deprioritizing AP missions, I just sorta sent whoever could 200% whatever provided it wasn't something super trivial (like the dungeon exploration quests).

Though I definitely do prioritize gold, supplies (especially Elite Strike supplies, those have a mega priority so I can get at least 3 per CC), and raid missions.

[Marrilaife]

Oh fuck I forgot about Mythic kills and a single M+ 10 per week, rip me, that might explain the discrepancies! Granted, we've stopped doing most Mythic bosses since like 3-4 weeks ago and only did 0-1 bosses per week (we tried to get CE but last night we just stopped and we're halting all raiding til ToS).

Shame, did you manage to kill Elisande though? Last time you said you were 8/10m.

My guild also extended the raid and is trying to get Gul'dan down, I'm not farming normal NH anymore, did so for 2-3 weeks when I needed to push specific legendary (also did EN pugs and few other raids), I'm not doing m+ except 1 weekly push for the chest, and I'm not really doing broken shore except 1-3 most lucrative quests (the place looks depressing to me), I was mostly concentrating on getting my last few alts up to 110 now so I can prep them for the class mount in the future.

Generally I don't chase AP, I understand farming for specific relic / trinket or just grinding stuff for legendaries and getting AP along the way, I might look into it more after AK 40 but that's still a week away. After the whole debate started after AK cap nerf from 50 to 40 and seeing majority of community seems to agree "get concordance and stop farming", I started dumping AP in offspecs, but wasn't really rushing it since I don't play them (it's just for the mounts).

And yeah, the dungeon quests are pretty worthless now, because while the raid cache scales with the difficulty of raid you're killing, the dungeon cache doesn't scale with your weekly m+ chest or anything, it's forever locked to m0 cap.

On my newest alts I used boa AK30 tome, getting 36 points in each spec for easy +15% dps, then waiting for boa ak40 tome since the announcement of the hotfix (normally reaching ak40 on main would give you boa ak35 tome but it's supposed to be hotifxed to give insta 40, that made me not queue any ak on alts and just wait to cap ak on main first).

Btw, is it still the case unlocking the new 850 champion while having all the rest on base 760 will make no missions spawn for the low levels or is it better these days? Wondering how should I go about my alts, luckily shaman / druid / monk were all done pre 7.2 so my newest alts have armament work orders in the worst case I lose ability to send missions on them until they upgrade.

[Polarthief]

I love when stupid keybinds and fat-fingering causes you to lose your entire post.

@ Marril: Gonna redo this in less effort:
- No, still 8/10 cuz guild decided to stop raiding after 2 missed nights of Elisande. Never got past P2.
- Yeah I only cared for Concordance (barely). The off-spec AP was mostly for Mage Tower, though I'm 3/4 now and might wait to do Feral til I get ToS gear. Not confident in my abilities to manage that challenge just yet.
- Dungeon quests have pretty much always been worthless. They were okay during EN.
- It's a lot better nowadays. They hotfixed that. However, I did notice I had a ton of 880+ missions on my Warlock once I got a champ to 895 (and still having some in the 86x and 87x range). I think it was more or less just a string of bad luck though. Still, once you get Meatball, balance your champions iLvls to the best of your abilities (since you might need to imbalance to get him due to specific counters and whatnot).

[Marrilaife]

- No, still 8/10 cuz guild decided to stop raiding after 2 missed nights of Elisande. Never got past P2.

Damn it, roster boss always hardest in the tier? Hope you have better luck in TOS. Judging from some friends of mine, one was in a guild that was ~450 world in HFC and around 200 world now, another was 1k in hfc and ~700 now, the amount of active raiding mythic guilds must have shrank since both of them still raid in the same guilds with at least half the same people (you don't just randomly improve to gain 30%+ better rank from tier to tier, just the competition is less numerous I bet).

But yeah, got today the new AK (US probably had it yesterday?) and after hc NH run, saved m+ weekly chest, and few WQ I got the missing 2 points from concordance in offspec, it does jump in speed with each rank.

Anyway good to hear they fixed the issue of getting all missions 880+ once you unlock new follower, was scared of it like hell, my priest just finished campaign and is sitting on the quest to recruit a new champion and I was kinda hesitating, maybe I should just do it and see what happens, getting these extra +2 champion slots allows faster levelling of them as you can send more missions simultaneously.

[Makoma]

Meatball worth dropping a current 900 follower?

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