Feral ST DPS

[Xirrohon]

It seems like Feral is always on top of the newest version of Simcraft. Its almost always wrong though.

[renji1337]

It seems like Feral is always on top of the newest version of Simcraft. Its almost always wrong though.

Under what bias do you make these claims?

The recent beta simcrafts are actually very accurate for almost all of the melee classes. I sim about 310k DPS and I do 290-295k (i'm not a perfect robot) ST DPS Wise, as I now have ashamanes bite (which adds basically 40K DPS for free)

Whenever simcraft is inaccurate, it is mostly with ranged classes. It was inaccurate during the beta, but it is not now. Keep in mind simcraft puts out ST sims on a boss that never moves, so you have 100% UP-time.

In any ST fight, a feral/arms warrior should always win. On the first boss of halls of valor for example I have 100% Up-time, so I am almost always 290k DPS (846 feral currently)

if you are basing your facts off of pug ferals, they probably don't have ashamanes bite yet which is artifact level 19, and they probably aren't following the rotation correctly as feral is the hardest rotation in the game

[Xirrohon]

Under what bias do you make these claims?

The recent beta simcrafts are actually very accurate for almost all of the melee classes. I sim about 310k DPS and I do 290-295k (i'm not a perfect robot) ST DPS Wise, as I now have ashamanes bite (which adds basically 40K DPS for free)

Whenever simcraft is inaccurate, it is mostly with ranged classes. It was inaccurate during the beta, but it is not now. Keep in mind simcraft puts out ST sims on a boss that never moves, so you have 100% UP-time.

In any ST fight, a feral/arms warrior should always win. On the first boss of halls of valor for example I have 100% Up-time, so I am almost always 290k DPS (846 feral currently)

if you are basing your facts off of pug ferals, they probably don't have ashamanes bite yet which is artifact level 19, and they probably aren't following the rotation correctly as feral is the hardest rotation in the game

Im basing it off seeing Simcraft coming out for expacs and patches since Ive been playing WoW which was early BC. Ferals always seem to get over valued some how and are usually put up top of Simcraft, especially with a new expac. What Im saying has nothing to do with what players are doing. Either way, Im not saying Feral is terrible either. Im saying Simcraft is almost never right in their sims and should just be used for fun speculation, not the absolute truth like a lot of people try to make it be.

Once raiding starts and we get some actual logs, we will know who is doing what.

[teddabear]

Im basing it off seeing Simcraft coming out for expacs and patches since Ive been playing WoW which was early BC. Ferals always seem to get over valued some how and are usually put up top of Simcraft, especially with a new expac. What Im saying has nothing to do with what players are doing. Either way, Im not saying Feral is terrible either. Im saying Simcraft is almost never right in their sims and should just be used for fun speculation, not the absolute truth like a lot of people try to make it be.

Once raiding starts and we get some actual logs, we will know who is doing what.

Simcraft was never intended for comparing specs but cross comparisons should become more valid as the apl's improve. The bigger issue is Patchwerk was 12 tiers ago. It is not a very useful metric anymore. As you said logs will be out soon which are the real measuring tool.

[renji1337]

Im basing it off seeing Simcraft coming out for expacs and patches since Ive been playing WoW which was early BC. Ferals always seem to get over valued some how and are usually put up top of Simcraft, especially with a new expac. What Im saying has nothing to do with what players are doing. Either way, Im not saying Feral is terrible either. Im saying Simcraft is almost never right in their sims and should just be used for fun speculation, not the absolute truth like a lot of people try to make it be.

Once raiding starts and we get some actual logs, we will know who is doing what.

You realize there's already logs for the raids though right. everyone right now is speculating everything over the logs they got during the beta, and have setup there raid comps with that information.

Ferals are almost never over valued until near the end of the expansion, i've played feral since wrath, normally they start out low-middle pack and by the end of tier end up near the top pack. This expansion is weird because we are at the top for ST from the beginning

Ultimately if top 10 world guilds are using a feral in there raid race, that means it's decent

Simcraft itself is a useful tool for testing your DPS with target dummies, that's what most people do with it. If you ultimately can get your dummy DPS where it should be, that means you will be ready to do the rotation in raid scenarios and get a better feeling with it.

As it stands I'm beating everyone in my guild in mythic dungeons on boss damage, obviously I lose at AOE but I still win 2-3 target cleave and do better AOE then some classes like SPriests. I'm running with a DH and a Fire Mage for Mythic+ so we will see how it goes

The biggest issue for ferals will be that there will be alot of pug ferals that do everything wrong xD, we are one of the specs that when played wrong, do absolutely horrid.

[Thorim]

Do people forget that feral is top tier not only on ST but on 2-3 target cleave? There's a reasons ferals did so well in the beta raid testing q.q. It only suffers in the area of AoE.

Have you even looked at the fights? o_o Feral is a bleed based class and in alot of emerald nightmare, you WILL be able to have multiple bleeds fully roll on cleave. (IIRC alot of the druids were using SOTF to manage 2-3rips going at once, it's worse ST, but amazing 2-3 target cleave).

Feral can fully run away from a monster/boss for over 10seconds because of how long there bleeds are, and how long they wait pooling for energy, they do quite well in a lot of emerald nightmare because of this. They mainly just suffer in M+

Top tier guilds like from scratch even have a feral druid this raid tier.

"will be beaten by everyone else with actually good AOE"

I never said feral was bad at 2-3 target fights, I said that there are fights with more AOE (not low target cleave) which we will get nuked on. No need to get so sensitive dude lol been feral since beginning of wrath, raided heroic/mythic every single tier so I know what the spec can and cannot do. The bottom line is feral will be 'pretty good' for the raids we saw on beta and coming out soon on average but there will be fights were we fall behind quite a lot due to how our AOE works.

[renji1337]

"will be beaten by everyone else with actually good AOE"

I never said feral was bad at 2-3 target fights, I said that there are fights with more AOE (not low target cleave) which we will get nuked on. No need to get so sensitive dude lol been feral since beginning of wrath, raided heroic/mythic every single tier so I know what the spec can and cannot do. The bottom line is feral will be 'pretty good' for the raids we saw on beta and coming out soon on average but there will be fights were we fall behind quite a lot due to how our AOE works.

On emerald nightmare ferals were pretty amazing, but on nighthold we were only really good on a couple of bosses, and meh on the rest. I wrote what I did above when I was super tried and arguing with someone about hunters XD

On the bright side, our T19 set is centered around increasing AOE effectiveness.

[Xirrohon]

You realize there's already logs for the raids though right. everyone right now is speculating everything over the logs they got during the beta, and have setup there raid comps with that information.

Ferals are almost never over valued until near the end of the expansion, i've played feral since wrath, normally they start out low-middle pack and by the end of tier end up near the top pack. This expansion is weird because we are at the top for ST from the beginning

I said, Simcraft is over valuing something in their sim...

[renji1337]

I said, Simcraft is over valuing something in their sim...

The simcraft APL for feral is actually quite correct because it's very similar to WoD feral, so it did not require that many tweaks. If you have some conclusive proof that it is "over-valuing it", then show it, but other then that, for some classes simcraft is very accurate, while for some, the action priority lists are still being tweaked.

As it stands I sim 310k DPS with all buffs, and around 285k with no buffs and no bloodlust in a 450 second fight

I do 270-275k sustained on a target dummy, tested in multiple 440-460 second intervals. Mythic boss fights are more around 180-240 seconds currently, depending on your group

Infact the feral APL was just recently updated becoming more accurate. as more APL's for classes are being updated daily. However, you can already check beta logs for emerald nightmare, and night-hold, which actually shows that ferals sim is quite accurate anyway, so you wouldn't need to do these tests.

If it matters all of my information that I'm posting in this thread is literally just a regurgitation of information from a top world 10 ranking feral druid from the Dreamgrove discord. It also culminates to what is in Xanzaras feral guide at http://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com...uideLegion.pdf

In the end I'm sure the feral that does top world progression knows more then I do, which is why I am taking there advice and regurgitating it.

If you personally have issues with the feral rotation, or are constantly under performing, please check the in-depth rotation guide written by xanzara. The guide was approved by multiple feral players such as Tinderhoof (who also has a WoWHead feral guide up) and yriss (A feral druid from the #4th guild, from scratch). Also, if you do not have ashamanes bite, AB ends up being 38-42k of our DPS.

[Magemaer]

Feral single target needs to be nerfed to the ground. It's outrageous right now.

[Lustice]

Feral single target needs to be nerfed to the ground. It's outrageous right now.

So you want feral druids to have no reason to be played? We dont have insane AOE like other classes...We have to have something.

[teddabear]

Feral single target needs to be nerfed to the ground. It's outrageous right now.

Spoken like a true Mage. Any spec within 5% of him should be nerfed by at least 50%.

I would agree single target is 5% too high but AOE Is 70% too low.

My prediction is Blizzard will nerf feral single target 5% and buff feral AOE 10% so they can complete their goal of making feral non-viable in every possible regard.

[-aiko-]

Feral single target needs to be nerfed to the ground. It's outrageous right now.

I don't think we'd mind a nerf to our single target if we got a buff to our AoE.