Legion LFR min ilevel requirements?

[Otimus]

There's no way that's true. I know Blizz has claimed it numerous times, but they had no problem releasing raid tier after raid tier before LFR was a thing, and making lots of profit from the game.

What Blizz means is, "LFR justifies producing raids to the useless beancounters at Blizzard who don't understand the game." And yes, the push for 1 year expansions in WoD, the token, the increased box cost, the cash shop, the emphasis on grinds to keep people subbed (see 6 months of legendary upgrades from 735-795) all show that the bean counters are really running things now.

Bean counters demand metrics that show every piece of content is being used by a large enough group of people to justify the money spent on it. The fact is that even if raiding isn't used by a huge number of people, it draws people into the game and most people who raid would stop playing if they stopped producing raids. Say 20% of people raid and would quit if they stop producing raids. Do you think that they spend more than 20% of their budget on raids? Because I don't. Even if they do spend more than 20%, it's still profitable on its own because this game makes money hand over fist. Just because raiding might not be as profitable as other portions of the game doesn't mean they stop making raids.

What it actually means is, is it shows there's a reason to throw a gigantic amount of money at a niche activity and not be held accountable for doing it. Which they pretty much were doing consistently before LFR. LFR exists because they did that and didn't want to stop doing that when questioned how they spend their production budgets.

I mean, logically speaking, it really makes no sense to spend most of your production budget on content so few do. But they still did it. I don't understand how that can be defended in any sort of way that doesn't come off as dickishly noting that people will pay for the game anyways so you might as well exploit it and not give them anything. (Which, again, was what they were doing before LFR.)

[Otimus]

Disagree. The reason raiding is important is, even if not a ton of people do ti, almost everyone who does would unsub if raiding were eliminated from the game. And raids are a draw for people deciding whether to play. Actual time spent in the raids doesn't matter as much as how many people they draw to the game.

And there's no way that raiding takes up "most of your production budget". It's maybe 20%.

I meant post-launch budget, I should have clarified that. Historically, that has been where most of the budget has gone.

Also, if barely anyone does it, why would it even matter if those people leave?

(Note: I like raiding. You're just not making sense, it's basically boiling down to "I like this. Thus it matters a lot.".)

[Jtbrig7390]

There's no way that's true.

https://www.engadget.com/2012/08/23/...g-progression/

The existence of LFR justifies the creation of more raid content for casual and hardcore players alike.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts

Ion Hazzikostas - Lead Encounter Designer (Convert to Raid)
LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.

Yep its true and its about time people accept it. If it wasn't still true it wouldn't be going back to the MOP model it would have been removed.

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Disagree.

Your welcome to disagree, just know you are wrong.

[Deleted]

Is the lockout shared with other raid difficulties? If not I'll be healing in LFR. If yes, you won't see me in there for a while.

[Jtbrig7390]

I've never doubted that Blizzard has said this multiple times. I just think it's totally untrue.

Got anything to back up that opinion besides feelz? If it wasn't true LFR would have been removed in Legion and yet it was returned to the MOP model.

[mysticx]

I've never doubted that Blizzard has said this multiple times. I just think it's totally untrue.

Do you honestly feel that the sparse few people (relatively speaking) that do organized raiding warrant so much content that takes up so many resources to make? (At the expense of content that all other players can enjoy)

It's purely a cost/benefit thing, putting a lot of work into a niche activity would be silly (and without LfR raiding would be very niche indeed), so Blizz had two options: make raiding suitable for all players or renove resources from raiding in order to make more non-raid content for all players, fortunately for the raiders they picked the first option.

[Jtbrig7390]

I think that since Activision took over Blizzard has started to operate more like a normal company.

And now we see the blaming Activision card.

You do realize there is only two years in the whole history of blizzard they was not owned by another company right? Once again all you have is opinions and feelz nether backed up by facts.

Blizzard acted as its own company until Activision had to buy themselves out from vivendi in mid WOD. The bylaws changed after and yes now Activision has more say. Doesn't change the fact WoW is a cash cow and what blizzard does works. Because of that Activision won't fuck with said cash cow.

Those are the fact's and not based on feelz.

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The game was incredibly successful through Cata without LFR, and invested a lot of resources in raiding throughout that time.

Do tell how losing 4 million subs (Before LFR) was successful. Also you realize Activision (people you blame) has owned blizzard since mid wrath.

[Jtbrig7390]

If you're talking about playing a card, here's a good example too: "blaming sub loss on whatever I want to blame it on." You're focusing in on one specific era and ignoring the big picture, which is that the game got to 12 million subscribers without LFR.

Please do point out where I blamed the sub loss on anything. I stated there was a massive sub loss before LFR when you implyed LFR is the cause of it. There is no set reason why subs dropped.

Also you seem to think what worked in TBC and Wrath can work now. Things change over time its why we drive cars and not ride horses. Once again I have provided you with facts and all you have provided is your opinion.

[Jtbrig7390]

I never blamed sub loss on anything. You're the one who brought that into the picture. Not really a fact if it's false.

Nope that was you again champ...

You said

The game was incredibly successful through Cata without LFR, and invested a lot of resources in raiding throughout that time.

I asked you how losing 4 million subs was successful and you have yet to answer my question. You deflected over to me playing a card when that wasn't the case at all.

You said Cata was successful without LFR and yet ignored that LFR slowed down the sub loss that came before it. You outright ignored the sub loss and said the game was successful....

Once again fact's disprove any opinion you have. You can blame Activision,Blizzard,LFR but the fact's stand as they are and proven you wrong.

[Neliah]

The problem with LFR is gonna be the queue times. No tanks or heals gonna be doing it.

I'm gonna queue as a healer, but I'll also turn off the chats

[Relapses]

Also, bean coutners? You're probably 802 i lvl pulling 35% of the dps you're supposed to.

Jesus dude, he has a family. ^{But you're 100% right.}

[Floopa]

fwiw emerald nightmare trinkets are garbage and the instance drops no tier.

even with legendaries being a thing i can't see myself subjecting myself to the torture of LFR*

*unless im afking it

[ceall]

Um, satchels? Augment Runes? Gear? AP? YOU might not do them, but I know plenty of people that will

Cant wait for healer satchels to pop up, signing in as a healer and topping the meters as dps.

[Aeula]

I'll be doing LFR for the flaming Ashbringer skin personally. It'll be nice to collect some transmog whilst I'm there too.

[Jtbrig7390]

I see where you misunderstood me now. I said the game was incredibly successful through Cata. Meaning, classic, tbc, wrath, cata. Saying "WoW was a success in its early years" shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Sure Cata was less successful but still had a ridiculous number of subs and made a ton of money. If you prefer, change my statement to through Wrath and it sends the same message I was trying to convey. Not trying to get into an argument over why subs went down in Cata.

Your right it was and it still is now. Blizzard makes money hand over fist with WoW.

But like I said what worked in 2008 isn't going to work now, If it did then current WoW would be like TBC.

We don't ride horses because cars are better and work better. If WoW was to revert to the TBC model today it would kill it.

[Raelbo]

I see where you misunderstood me now. I said the game was incredibly successful through Cata. Meaning, classic, tbc, wrath, cata. Saying "WoW was a success in its early years" shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Sure Cata was less successful but still had a ridiculous number of subs and made a ton of money. If you prefer, change my statement to through Wrath and it sends the same message I was trying to convey. Not trying to get into an argument over why subs went down in Cata.

The point he made still stands though. Your idea that the game was "doing just fine without LFR" cannot be substantiated because the game did start to bleed a lot of subs before LFR entered onto the scene and the advent of LFR coincided with a huge reduction of this phenomenon.

Besides which, just because the game coped fine without LFR doesn't mean it would have continued to do so indefinitely. I agree with your argument that people are drawn to the game because of the existence of raids even if they didn't raid. But what you miss is why, and that is important. It's a carrot on a stick. Those people want to raid so they join the game with the intention of raiding. And they keep playing the game with the goal of eventually getting into raids. The problem though is that there is only so long that said people will be strung along without ever actually raiding before they realise that they will never actually raid, and at that point they end up losing the motivation to stay in the game.

That is why the game worked fine in TBC and Wrath. Because people still believed that they would eventually progress to the raids they aspired to. But by the end of Wrath, that illusion was dispelled. Blizzard realised that they needed to include these people, the vast majority of the actual players, in being able to see and participate in the content before it became obsolete.

[Sylvaeres]

You're completely missing the point. Raiders don't care that LFR exists. Let the bad casuals have their tourist mode.

The problem is that tier gear and useful trinkets are in there, so that means the raiders have to be subjected to the bad casuals. WoD LFR was much better, because I didn't have to go there in order to make my character more powerful for a real raid.

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This was completely true in WoD, but now that tier is back in LFR, your statement is both false and foolish.

ya, because I don't have normal, heroic, and Mythic to get my tier from, right? Not to mention the delayed releases, good call. You're so smart.

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Cant wait for healer satchels to pop up, signing in as a healer and topping the meters as dps.

lmao thats not a bad idea, you honestly only need 2 healers for EN LFR, unless they buffed it from beta. In beta it was an absolute joke, 0 wipes on content we've never even seen. As far as the satchels, those runes will go for alot in the first 2-4 weeks

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People just dont get that.

You're not even kidding there

[Varitok]

Oh man the salt is real.

Thankfully LFR is back to it's MoP incarnation with trinkets and tier. LFR is here to stay, and you should embrace it because it's what justifies the existence of the larger raid tiers.

I love this, I am so happy its back to MoP levels. Got me more hyped to do it.

[Ham on Rye]

ya, because I don't have normal, heroic, and Mythic to get my tier from, right? Not to mention the delayed releases, good call. You're so smart.

And then when your tier doesn't drop in any of those, guess where you'll be? Yup, LFR. You're so smart.

[D3athsting]

It'll be dropping the same gear that other difficulties will just at a reduced ilvl, for some classes that's worth grabbing.

So they dropped the wod lfr loot with crappy tier sets and different items?