Warlock = instant PUG kick

[Greenthy]

I have never been shunned in a group and as many here, I've been doing alot of LFD grouping.

The only thing that happens somtimes is getting declined in the LFD tool.
And lets be reall here, that's just because you're one of 5 players -- rough average -- applying to join an LFD group.

If for some reason you cannot find yourself being accepted into a group: create your own.

[Uzkin]

I play a Destro warlock and I don't have problems getting into mythics. I usually aim for the lower ilvl ones, as those are usually not the wannabe elitists. Aim for the 825-830 groups and you won't get kicked. It has nothing to do with your class. The kicks are usually because you don't severely overpower the run with aoe spec for padding meters.


As for the warlocks who suck:
I don't even spec aoe.. I focus on where it matters, single target DPS, and usually do 180-220k on the fights that matter. Bosses. I am not even using cleave to get those numbers. Yes, some people are pulling 700k+ on trash. But, 9 times out of 10, that same person will do sub 100k on the bosses, because they are being tards and spec aoe and cleave, and not being very helpful on the fights that count. This actually applies to all classes.

Your conceptions of what does and does not matter in 5-man content don't seem to be grounded in reality.

[LiiLoSNK]

Skill issue.

[Duckz0rs]

Lol. Do I have to quote your first post in this thread? You said the community was the problem, not the class. You said it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. That was a load of crap but I'm glad you at least now recognize the correct origin of the warlock stigma: the general poor performance of the average warlock in pugs. It is this fact on which the follow-up phenomena get built on. It is a "positive-feedback" system for sure but the origin of it is in the class, not in the community. Doom-saying can be found on every class forum but it does not catch fire unless there's an actual in-game reason for it.

I admitted that from the start. Feel free to quote my first post: not always the player. I didn't say it's not the players' fault. I'll concede that my last line was conflicting with the rest of my initial post and shouldn't have been included. That part was wrong and I should've phrased it better: It's not only the class, it's also the community.

What I've been trying to say is that both things compound each other. If you see a couple of bad warlocks the average player assumed those were just bad players. If you see a couple of bad warlocks and then hear through the grapevine that all warlocks are saying their class is bad, the average player assumes it's the class. It's not black-and-white, one or the other. It's both. I'll admit fault that I buckled down on one initially, which was wrong.

[Jessicka]

Skill issue.

The OP is talking about being kicked or asked to leave before they're even in the dungeon or pulled the first trash. I can believe it happens, because it happened to me in early Cataclysm because of class perceptions. I've seen it happen to other classes/specs that have been perceived to be underperforming by the community; and it's a perception built up by player experience - not forum whining. It usually happens very early in an expansion when everyone is new, people are undergeared, so content feels 'hard'.

In part, it can be a skill issue; but usually when the delta on a spec is so wide that something like 1 misplaced talent (Siphon Life instead of Sow the Seeds for trash, missing Soul Flame), or a particularly unforgiving mechanic existing (Improved Soul Fire, Snapshotting) can result in huge underperformance relative to a 'balanced/mediocre' perfect execution.

[Gaidax]

The OP is talking about being kicked or asked to leave before they're even in the dungeon or pulled the first trash. I can believe it happens

It is impossible to be kicked in the dungeon in first minutes of the run in the random dungeon. I think it's 5 or 10 mins? Alternatively, if it's a PuG LFD - why would someone invite you to kick you right away?

Something does not click with this whole story, that's what people are saying.

[Lillyth]

Recruited a warlock yesterday and we did court of stars and the arcway just fine.

Not sure why people would do that. I guess they are just asses.

[Deleted]

you just admited to being shit at your class. warlocks are fine

GIT GUD

[Jessicka]

Recruited a warlock yesterday and we did court of stars and the arcway just fine.

Not sure why people would do that. I guess they are just asses.

People are asses. That's why I can well believe it. It's usually a bigger problem for underperforming healer specs though, I can recall a few launches where Druids had a torrid time.

[DeadmanWalking]

The same people were saying the same whiney shit at the begining of Draenor.

They also said they could never get invited to a pug and were constantly being deneid entry, of which I never had a problem. There may of been other issues like, "We already have a warlock, we have enough dps, we are specifically looking for heroism dps, we need more melee, your ilevel wasnt high enough, ect. But all you see is 'Your application has been denied' and assume it is because they hate warlocks.
I was in a group in highmaul who said, "Why do we have 2 warlocks? Warlocks suck." After downing the twin bosses the two warlocks were the top dps and everyone shut their mouths.

You want someone who got screwed? Gladiators got screwed. They didn't scale with better gear and they were 'stealing loot' from tanks so no one wanted them.

[HeroicMythic]

there is no reason to invite a wl in your grp if you can take another class.... just check the dmg numbers..

[Deleted]

there is no reason to invite a wl in your grp if you can take another class.... just check the dmg numbers..

See, this kind of thing is just not helpful. Warlocks can very well carry their weight, and there are other specs around warlock dps level. Some specs are way ahead of the rest, but they are all melee and you can't always pick players with those specs.

Affliction single target is lacking, but trash DPS is fine. Demo AoE and single target is fine if you know what you are doing. Destruction AoE and single target is fine. When I say fine, I mean perfectly capable of carrying your weight and completing dungeons.

Mechanically, they are boring (Or extremely unforgiving in demo's case), clunky, and generally "unfinished". Those are the least likely changes we will get, but the ones that are most needed. Any semi decent player can perform decently, and the number tuning should be easy to do.

[Mhorrg]

I haven't had a single person even comment on me being a warlock in PuGs let alone kick me.

[JV Chequer]

Warlock are one of the best classes on Mythic Dungeons with a proper build.

Ppl are just tards without a single clue how every spec are performing.

[Irian]

I will say that as an 846(perhaps higher, think I got an upgrade and didn't look at ilvl) warlock I have a bizarrely hard time getting mythic dungeons. It's a strange struggle getting parties for PUGs. I even had someone ask me why I still played a warlock this expansion. Never kicked, though, and usually doing decent enough damage now that I have enough haste to be out of the "just hit level cap" rut warlocks seem to suffer from every expansion. I've seen burst upwards of 360k as destruction on a good day with bloodlust.

But as a whole, yeah, we're not as good as some other classes for mythic dungeons, to be honest. It's a huge shame because I was really excited to jump into Mythic+ as someone who doesn't have the time nor care to do serious raiding anymore. Affliction just flat out sucks in them, demonology and destruction both need real AoE/cleave and destruction is seriously lacking unless you have stuff to cleave. Destruction is the best option but that's saying very, very little considering how bad the class is as a whole.

I think there's a bright side, though. Except Demonology when allowed to stand perfectly still, warlocks were/are pretty harshly underperforming in most aspects of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if 7.1 sees a few buffs for the class overall.

[JV Chequer]

I will say that as an 846(perhaps higher, think I got an upgrade and didn't look at ilvl) warlock I have a bizarrely hard time getting mythic dungeons. It's a strange struggle getting parties for PUGs. I even had someone ask me why I still played a warlock this expansion. Never kicked, though, and usually doing decent enough damage now that I have enough haste to be out of the "just hit level cap" rut warlocks seem to suffer from every expansion. I've seen burst upwards of 360k as destruction on a good day with bloodlust.

But as a whole, yeah, we're not as good as some other classes for mythic dungeons, to be honest. It's a huge shame because I was really excited to jump into Mythic+ as someone who doesn't have the time nor care to do serious raiding anymore. Affliction just flat out sucks in them, demonology and destruction both need real AoE/cleave and destruction is seriously lacking unless you have stuff to cleave. Destruction is the best option but that's saying very, very little considering how bad the class is as a whole.

I think there's a bright side, though. Except Demonology when allowed to stand perfectly still, warlocks were/are pretty harshly underperforming in most aspects of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if 7.1 sees a few buffs for the class overall.

Affliction on Mythic+ becomes better every increase of difficulty, Saw of Seeds shines on High living mobs and Artifact golden traits aswell.

Destro lock with Wreak Havoc and Cataclysm can melt down hard trash packs.

I'm pretty much convinced most ppl actually don't play properly and don't use the handful toolkit we have.

[DeadmanWalking]

Frankly with +48% chance of my dot criting (on top of 12% chance of regular crit) and feeding me soul shards + chances to not expend shoul shards I can practically spam chaos bolts. There are very few heroic dungeon fights at this point that I don't end up top dps unless it is like the final boss in Azshara which has way too much movement requirements for ranged, then yeah the dps is going to suck but I never miss a mechanic and I plow through all the rest of the bosses.

I don't even know why I try to explain this to people, they won't be happy unless they are #1 at dps at all times regardless of what type of fight it is and rolling death machines. They really did a diservice to Warlocks in Mists when they let us cast on the move because it spoiled a lot of people and whole bunch of people went warlock as fotm with the expectation that it would always be the best of the best.

[HeroicMythic]

@Master of Coins
Dude, you have Posts: 16,470 in this forums. You are not the average player... If you are 20% behind, just imagine how much other average players will be. 30-40%? With ilvl 840 any monk, dk, dh, enh, rogue will make 50-100k more dps single target.

Anyone who denies that fact and claims that if you play like uber pro, you can match the dmg, is just some elitist schmock and ignorant wl fanboi.

[Jessicka]

The same people were saying the same whiney shit at the begining of Draenor.

Well they killed Demo off, so that's not really surprising where and how that ended up as it did. Other than that, people were fine mechanically with Aff and Destro; they needed and received small buffs and all was well with the world.

MoP was a decent enough launch though, the first iterations of the 90 talents were a huge issue that never really got resolved properly so they just ended up over-buffing KJC because they didn't know what else to do. Even then, it wasn't as strong as Archimonde's Darkness ended up being. I think maybe Aff was a little weak, and got some minor adjustments to its DoT Vs ST damage but that was pretty much it.

I suppose all the whiney shit at the start of Cataclysm was unjustified though, because Mastery snapshotting kept Demo balanced, and as long as you managed 100% ISF up time with the other specs, they were okay too?

And 6 DoTs plus Shadow Embrace was entirely acceptable ramp up and switching in Naxx?

[Gaidax]

I still am specced soul conduit instead of wreak havoc though, I just find it more consistent / useful in general on dungeon content, trash and solo-target bosses, for both AoE and ST.

I also used to run with Soul Conduit in Beta until one day I tried out Wreck Havoc and it is so insane that I no longer care about the miniscule bonuses Soul Conduit provides in specific situation, which really do not materilaize that much in dungeons.

Try it.