Time for a new desktop computer

[Arctagon]

It is time to acquire a new system. In the next paragraph I detail issues I have with the current one, which I realise may not strictly be necessary, but perhaps it could clear some things up.

WoW runs fine, for the most part. Even with most settings tuned to the highest level, I can sit around 90-100 FPS in less demanding places, like in dungeons/raids and indoor locations. In more demanding places, I usually sit at more than 50 FPS, and at least over 30. What I have problems with, however, is loading and frame stuttering. Sometimes, when I’m lucky, or when there is little else going on, I can spend as little as around 10 seconds on the loading screen, and when it decides to be difficult, it can take several minutes or more. When I first get into the game, it will take several more minutes to load all the textures and everything else properly (‘unfinished’ structures, can’t see other players or other units etc.), during which there will be a lot of lag. A lot. So much it’s unplayable. When everything is fully loaded, the game usually runs quite smoothly, but sometimes it will stutter. I can sit completely still and everything is fine, but as soon as I move the camera or the character, it will lag rather badly. It’s not always like this, but it happens often enough. Generally, it stutters and lags very often with very low dips, despite sitting at a high FPS number otherwise. I’ve always wondered what the culprit is. Is it the CPU? Or is it the memory? Because when I return to a place (with no loading screens in between) it sometimes start lagging again. It assmues, of course, that most of the lagging is tied to incomplete loading, and it does seem that way.

I’ve had this computer for six years now (I even still have patch files from patch 3.2 on it). I replaced the graphics card in early 2013 along with the monitor, and the CPU cooler in summer 2014. This May, I replaced the PSU because the previous one ceased to function. Otherwise, all compoenents are the same.

First of all, are there any components worth saving, except for the PSU, which I will be using in the new build? I can imagine there aren’t, save perhaps for the CPU cooler, although it hasn’t been functioning optimally as of late (it seems as though it is subject to lots of friction, as it’s usually slow in starting up, and stops spinning immediately upon shutdown).

My budget is 9,000 NOK (£825/€975/$1095) (not including the PSU), but I can go over if there’s a good reason to. I'd say the ceiling is around 12,000. I obviously don’t need to reach the budget, either, as I can imagine it will be somewhat overkill for WoW. Any retailer is fine, but if it is one based abroad, it needs to be able to deduct VAT before shipping to another country. Many serious retailers do this, but for those that don’t, I’d end up paying double VAT, which usually ends up being more expensive than if I had ordered from within my own country.

By far the largest portion of time the system will be devoted to is WoW. I do however have a rather extensive Steam library that I’m slowly working through, which includes some titles that are more graphically demanding than WoW (e.g. Crysis, The Witcher, Dark Souls, Skyrim, Fallout, Tomb Raider, Metro …). I also frequently use the computer to watch films, and I browse the internet occasionally, but that is mostly covered by my MacBook. I have been interested in trying out streaming, so the system may very well be used for that, too, in which case I might need a better CPU than I normally would.

I was thinking of going for one of the new GPUs from Nvidia. The GTX 1080 might be too expensive for my budget (not to mention overkill for the vast majority of what I spend my time on), but perhaps I’m able to squeeze a GTX 1070 in there. I haven’t looked all that much at the latest AMD cards, but it seems they are not aimed at gaming at the highest graphical settings.

I’d like an optical drive which is capable of reading BluRay discs: I don’t always have access to a BluRay player and can’t always comfortably watch some of the films I own for that reason.

I have never owned an SSD before, so I’m excited to experience its wonders. I think 250 GB is the optimal size for me. I have 120 GB on my MacBook, which I feel is somewhat tight. I will probably fit the vast majority of what I use in those 250 GB, so there is little point in getting a large HDD. I own an external harddrive, so I store most of what takes up a lot of space there. On my current system I have 500 GB, and I am nowhere close to reaching its capacity. For that reason, I see no point in getting a harddrive larger than 500 GB. Even getting less would perhaps not be such a bad idea.

Lastly, I have Windows 7 64-bit from several years back saved onto a CD. Is there any point in using that, or should I buy Windows 10 instead (not sure if you can still upgrade for free)?

[Thunderball]

Hello, this post is hella detailed but lacks one most important thing: what's your current configuration?

[Arctagon]

I knew something was missing (the post is even written with such a list in mind, like when I ask if there's anything worth saving)! I tried to include so much that I completely forgot about the most basic. Also, I had some important information I wanted to include aside from the obligatory—I hope you don't mind (or anybode else).

Here's the current configuration:

Case: Cooler Master Elite 310, orange
PSU: Corsair RM550x
Motherboard: MSI H55M-E33
CPU: Intel Core i5-750
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
GPU: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 OC 2GB
Memory: Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz 4GB
Storage: Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB
Optical Drive: Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7240S
OS: Windows 10 (the free upgrade, from Windows 7 Home Premium (Nordic, 32/64 bit))

Hopefully, I didn't miss anything.

[Thunderball]

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K BOX € 296,64
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 € 50,34
Motherboard: ASUS Z170-A € 123,45
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4-3000 CL15 Kit (2x8GB) € 71,85
Videocard: MSI GTX 1070 ARMOR 8G OC € 388,24
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB € 79,75
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM006 2TB € 65,97
Case: Fractal Design R5 Black € 83,95
Blu-ray Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Bulk € 52,52
Case fans: Phanteks F140SP € 15,04 x2

Total including shipping without VAT: € 1.323,01

[Arctagon]

I probably should have mentioned it in the initial post, but I intended for the budget to be including the VAT they deduct. I see it complicates things, so I will edit the post. Other than that, I've seen that CPU cooler mentioned a few times lately. Any particular reason it is chosen? Is it specifically chosen for overclocking in mind? As for the RAM and HDD, is it needed with that much? I've also not seen case fans suggested very often. Any particular reason you included this?

[Thunderball]

I probably should have mentioned it in the initial post, but I intended for the budget to be including the VAT they deduct. I see it complicates things, so I will edit the post. Other than that, I've seen that CPU cooler mentioned a few times lately. Any particular reason it is chosen? Is it specifically chosen for overclocking in mind? As for the RAM and HDD, is it needed with that much? I've also not seen case fans suggested very often. Any particular reason you included this?

I see, we will have to cut something here, one question here. As I understand EU shops dont charge VAT for purshases from Norway (as it's outside the EU) but Norway charges you separately, how much do they charge exactly? For the cooler: it's quiet, does the job well even with overclocked processor and doesnt cost too much. You want to stream so i7 is chosen here, and there is no real reason to buy an i7 without overclocking it. For the RAM: you want to stream that means 16GB is the optimal amount, as for the clocks: you can save 10 EUR at most by degrading to DDR4-2400, and we can do it if it doesnt fit your budget, but as I calculated your build with the information I had before it did fit comfortably. For the HDD: you want to stream, so you will probably want to save some footage locally too. For the fans: this shop doesnt have the same fans that are included with the case (Fractal GP14) so these fit the most: they are quiet, have sufficient performance and fit the color scheme. I'd even say that they are better than original fans.

[Arctagon]

It's +25%, but I updated the post with a budget excluding VAT: 9,000 NOK, ceiling around 12,000 NOK. Keep in mind that I can go over budget if there's a good reason to, up to around the ceiling.

I can't say I've got any clue about the difference between DDR4-2400 and DDR4-3000. I read some information about it, but it didn't make me any wiser. I can't see why I would save footage locally, but then again, I haven't streamed before, so I wouldn't know. How about the 1TB version of the same HDD you linked? It's more than €20 cheaper, and I'd probably have 900GB+ for potential footage.

By the way, what's your thoughts on OS? Any point in getting a new one?

To anybody else reading this thread, feel free to chime in with your own suggestions. The more people contributing, the merrier.

[Thunderball]

It's +25%, but I updated the post with a budget excluding VAT: 9,000 NOK, ceiling around 12,000 NOK. Keep in mind that I can go over budget if there's a good reason to, up to around the ceiling.

I can't say I've got any clue about the difference between DDR4-2400 and DDR4-3000. I read some information about it, but it didn't make me any wiser. I can't see why I would save footage locally, but then again, I haven't streamed before, so I wouldn't know. How about the 1TB version of the same HDD you linked? It's more than €20 cheaper, and I'd probably have 900GB+ for potential footage.

By the way, what's your thoughts on OS? Any point in getting a new one?

To anybody else reading this thread, feel free to chime in with your own suggestions. The more people contributing, the merrier.

No reason to get 3000Mhz if you're tight on the budget, the difference is marginal. On the drive space: one two hour stream can take up to 100GB (depending on quality), you want to save the footage to be able to edit and upload it elsewhere after (YouTube, for example). No reason to get a new OS in my opinion.

Edited list below. The most obvious upgrade would be a GTX 1070.

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K BOX € 296,64
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 € 50,34
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 € 99,92
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4-2400 CL15 Kit (2x8GB) € 62,10
Videocard: EVGA GeForce GTX1060 6GB € 234,45
SSD: Corsair Force LE 240GB € 58,74
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM006 2TB € 65,97
Case: Corsair SPEC-02 € 49,50
Blu-ray Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Bulk € 52,52

Total including shipping without VAT: € 1.010,61

[Arctagon]

I did actually play with the thought of uploading to YouTube, so additional space would be beneficial, then. What is the difference between the two motherboards? And the two cases (it's quite the price difference)?

I'd very much like to include the GTX 1070—I certainly think it's cause to go over budget.

[Thunderball]

I did actually play with the thought of uploading to YouTube, so additional space would be beneficial, then. What is the difference between the two motherboards? And the two cases (it's quite the price difference)?

I'd very much like to include the GTX 1070—I certainly think it's cause to go over budget.

ASRock motherboards are good too, ASUS is just easier to setup for someone who doesnt have much experience. The difference between cases are mostly quieting and assemble/cleaning options, airflow options are better with this one.

[Arctagon]

How about this? I've added a few items from your previous suggestion. It's over budget, but still under the ceiling, so I'm fine with it. The majority of the increase in price comes from the graphics card, which I said I'd very much like to include.

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K BOX € 296,64
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 € 50,34
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 € 99,92
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4-2400 CL15 Kit (2x8GB) € 62,10
Videocard: MSI GTX 1070 ARMOR 8G OC € 388,24
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB € 79,75
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM006 2TB € 65,97
Case: Fractal Design R5 Black € 83,95
Blu-ray Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Bulk € 52,52

Total including shipping without VAT: € 1.179,43

[Salty Maud]

WoW is totally CPU bound in more taxing areas (basically anywhere with lots of people, especially in combat). Single core bound to be exact. You could technically downgrade to i5-6600k without having negative impact on wow performance since wow does not exactly gain anything from the additional threads, but 6600k would overclock similar to 6700k getting you to similar single thread performance.

Your motherboard supports m.2 SSD, you should consider getting one to shave off some loading time. Samsung SM951 is just a bit more expensive than 850 evo on SATA3 but manages way higher sequential reads.

GTX1070 for 1080p is still reasonable, but if you think it is above your budget going with 6GB GTX1060 is always an option. GTX1060 is still a very capable card, it matches GTX980 on performance and delivers roughly half of GTX1080 performance. Just to give some reference, my GTX1080 is seeing roughly 50% utilization @1440p on max graphics with fps limited to 60 so yeah, GTX1060 will manage wow just fine. On the topic of pascal GPUs, get the cheapest one with a decent dual/triple fan cooler. Custom board designs have proven to provide no additional overclocking headroom on these cards making them basically waste of money.

[Arctagon]

If it wasn't for the fact that I intend to try out streaming and possibly editing the resulting footage, I wouldn't have gone for the 6700k. As for the graphics card, had I only had WoW in mind when choosing it, I would probably go with the GTX 1060, but I have other games I want to play that are more graphically demanding than WoW is. By going with the GTX 1070 my system will also be more future proof than if I had not. I'm not sure what you mean in your last sentence—is ‘board’ a synonym for ‘card’? And I wouldn't know a decent dual/triple fan cooler if I saw one, so choosing a card based on that may prove difficult.

Are you referring to this card? I read in a review that one might need cooling for it, amongst other things. Thoughts? ‘Getting the most out of Samsung's SM951 SSD is a little complicated. First, you'll need a motherboard with enough PCIe Gen3 lanes running to its M.2 slot—or a full-sized adapter and equivalent expansion slot. You'll also need to think about cooling. Our testing shows that sustained loads can induce throttling on an open test bench running at normal room temperatures. Adding a fan solved the problem on that rig, but I worry about enclosed systems packed with toasty GPUs, especially since a lot of motherboards put the M.2 slot right below the primary graphics card.’

[Thunderball]

WoW is totally CPU bound in more taxing areas (basically anywhere with lots of people, especially in combat). Single core bound to be exact. You could technically downgrade to i5-6600k without having negative impact on wow performance since wow does not exactly gain anything from the additional threads, but 6600k would overclock similar to 6700k getting you to similar single thread performance.

Your motherboard supports m.2 SSD, you should consider getting one to shave off some loading time. Samsung SM951 is just a bit more expensive than 850 evo on SATA3 but manages way higher sequential reads.

GTX1070 for 1080p is still reasonable, but if you think it is above your budget going with 6GB GTX1060 is always an option. GTX1060 is still a very capable card, it matches GTX980 on performance and delivers roughly half of GTX1080 performance. Just to give some reference, my GTX1080 is seeing roughly 50% utilization @1440p on max graphics with fps limited to 60 so yeah, GTX1060 will manage wow just fine. On the topic of pascal GPUs, get the cheapest one with a decent dual/triple fan cooler. Custom board designs have proven to provide no additional overclocking headroom on these cards making them basically waste of money.

1) OP wants to try streaming, so having an 6700K is largely beneficial for him.
2) M.2 SSDs are useless for an average consumer, you wont notice the difference.
3) GTX 1060 is about 10-15% slower than GTX 980 (depending on VRAM usage).

- - - Updated - - -

How about this? I've added a few items from your previous suggestion. It's over budget, but still under the ceiling, so I'm fine with it. The majority of the increase in price comes from the graphics card, which I said I'd very much like to include.

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K BOX € 296,64
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 € 50,34
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 € 99,92
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4-2400 CL15 Kit (2x8GB) € 62,10
Videocard: MSI GTX 1070 ARMOR 8G OC € 388,24
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB € 79,75
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM006 2TB € 65,97
Case: Fractal Design R5 Black € 83,95
Blu-ray Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Bulk € 52,52

Total including shipping without VAT: € 1.179,43

Looks good, you're free to order right away if it first your budget.

[Arctagon]

Just came to think of something I forgot to ask. Does the GPU support a two monitor setup?

[Thunderball]

Just came to think of something I forgot to ask. Does the GPU support a two monitor setup?

Yes, but note that there is only one DVI port, so one of the monitors have to be connected through DisplayPort or HDMI.

[Arctagon]

I noticed that Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 Windforce OC is considerably cheaper than MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Armor OC in shops here in Norway (up to 600 NOK in the same shop), and I wonder why. I looked at the technical specifications, and there's hardly any difference between them. The former has higher clocks and is ever so slightly longer, and for some reason it's listed as 1kg with packaging compared to the MSI's 2kg, but that doesn't seem reasonable. Does the MSI card have better cooling, allowing for a higher OC?

[Thunderball]

I noticed that Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 Windforce OC is considerably cheaper than MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Armor OC in shops here in Norway (up to 600 NOK in the same shop), and I wonder why. I looked at the technical specifications, and there's hardly any difference between them. The former has higher clocks and is ever so slightly longer, and for some reason it's listed as 1kg with packaging compared to the MSI's 2kg, but that doesn't seem reasonable. Does the MSI card have better cooling, allowing for a higher OC?

MSI cards are slightly better + plus brand mark-up + logistics (the price difference is not that big in other countries).