DHs competing for raid spots

[Chuupag]

So we are probably a casual guild. We generally clear heroic and dabble in the first half of mythic before the next raid comes out raiding 5-6 hours a week. I'm slow to sit people as a raid leader unless the person has a history of just being bad, but we have a lot of friends/family groups so I'm often playing politics in addition to raid leading.

With the amount of people coming back I'm fully expecting 30 or more people showing up on our first raid night. 6 months ago I put in our message of the day and Facebook group that I would only be having 4 DHs in raid and that if you intended to swap mains and play a DH to get in touch with me. I only had 1 person do this, my top melee dps. Fast forward to yesterday and I notice we have 7 DH at 110 and another 4 between 107 and 109.

I put in the message of the day and Facebook group saying if you did not talk to me about raiding on a DH we may not have room for you at this point, and 3 people flip their shit on me. One says he's a tank...which I point out we already have tanks and that he raided with us exactly 3 times in the entirety of warlords. And I get various other excuses, threats, and complaints from the rest.

Has any other raid leader been dealing with this? I've ran dungeons with a couple of them to gauge how well they play...and for the most part they are all horse shit. I don't care if you pull good numbers if you are blinking and dancing around and pull 3 other groups. And since I am expecting more than 30 I see no reason I can't stand by my max 4 DH I had said months ago and let attrition sort it out. None of the DH other than the one who spoke to me a long time back were regulars. I feel like they will either quit playing or go back to their main when they see they have no spot in my raid, or anyone else's for that matter.

[Deleted]

I had to struggle with DHs at the start of the expansion and on the pre-patch. However, I was always clear that I wouldn't take more than 3 DHs in my raid and people accepted it. Whenever I had a DH apply or someone wanted to reroll to DH, having 3 already, I said them they were free to do so but wouldn't raid.

Now, from those 3 DHs I had and another one that wanted to reroll, the reroll decided to play Monk WW, the DH tank did a reroll to Warrior tank, so I just have 2 Havoc.

Just be clear, and if they don't like it, they can look for another raid or guild.

[ThePants999]

Your problem isn't really demon hunter related. Your problem is that your guild doesn't have clearly communicated expectations on what it takes to secure a spot in your raid team, or how you handle group composition. Shameless plug: http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613201523

[-Skye]

We have 0 demon hunters in our guild and are struggling to recruit one lol

[Chuupag]

Your problem isn't really demon hunter related. Your problem is that your guild doesn't have clearly communicated expectations on what it takes to secure a spot in your raid team, or how you handle group composition. Shameless plug: http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613201523

Saying 6 months ago in message of the day and in our guild Facebook group that we wouldn't be having more than 4 DHs in raid and asking people interested in doing so to get in contact with me isn't communication?

[mahesvara]

Saying 6 months ago in message of the day and in our guild Facebook group that we wouldn't be having more than 4 DHs in raid and asking people interested in doing so to get in contact with me isn't communication?

how long was it the message of the day? Best way to do it is when pre-patch drop make it the message of the day and repost in guild facebook group, and do so again when legion drops.

[ThePants999]

Saying 6 months ago in message of the day and in our guild Facebook group that we wouldn't be having more than 4 DHs in raid and asking people interested in doing so to get in contact with me isn't communication?

If people haven't got the message, then it isn't *effective* communication, no.

But as I say, the problem goes beyond DHs anyway. This chap who thought he'd be tanking for you after coming to three WoD raids, for example. Why does he think that? What should he have read or heard to help him realise that wasn't realistic? Why didn't he read or hear it? Sometimes, I admit, you do just get the kind of person who would pull for ages at a door clearly labeled "push" and complain about it being locked, but since you have multiple people with a similar issue, I strongly suspect there is a communications problem.

[Chuupag]

If people haven't got the message, then it isn't *effective* communication, no.

But as I say, the problem goes beyond DHs anyway. This chap who thought he'd be tanking for you after coming to three WoD raids, for example. Why does he think that? What should he have read or heard to help him realise that wasn't realistic? Why didn't he read or hear it? Sometimes, I admit, you do just get the kind of person who would pull for ages at a door clearly labeled "push" and complain about it being locked, but since you have multiple people with a similar issue, I strongly suspect there is a communications problem.

Or people just don't think the rules apply to them. All but 1 of these DHs have not been regular raiders. They'd show up every once in awhile, or consistently for a few weeks then disappear, or like the one who was expecting to tank 3 times total despite numerous offers of space. People like this just expect things to work out for them and any information presented to the contrary is ignored.

The tank thing goes beyond just this specific instance though. What person attempts to join a raid as a tank when a tank is not actively being searched for? If they are a raid group they have tanks. Waltzing in and expecting to tank for an already established raid group just boggles my mind. This applies slightly less but still to heals. I had a healer apply and told him we weren't recruiting heals at the time, he said "you'll sit someone when you see my numbers" Yea right buddy...I'm going to sit my wife, my friend of 5 years, one of my officers, or the #1 ranked proving ground guy to give you their spot.

[psyquest]

I am a raid leader as well and been doing it for about 5 years.

when demon hunters was announced I reminded everyone that to reroll they needed to talk to me, and that melee places are limited and demon hunter places will be limited too.

1 week prior to legion launch, we had 2 demon hunters and one guy turned and say i am rerolling. too bad, no place left, you can raid with your current main or find yourself another guild.

end of story.

up to you wether you want to put up with that shit or if you need to stick to your gun. In my guild someone returning after a hiatus has no guarantee whatsoever in getting a raid spot. none, zero and usually I do not retake someone that just stopped without ensuring first that a replacement is there before he stops raiding.

[justflayin]

Saying 6 months ago in message of the day and in our guild Facebook group that we wouldn't be having more than 4 DHs in raid and asking people interested in doing so to get in contact with me isn't communication?

Not if you had 11 and you didn't know it was going to happen. 6 months prior to launch is a long time. Were all of these people active/online when that message went up?

[Saybel]

We are a small guild but we only had 2 DH and 1 rerolled away to mage so we're left with 1 DH tank

I did say to people that I don't want to end up with like 5 DH in raid but most of my friends are the kind of people who don't reroll unless the circumstances are extreme.

[Minoan]

Right now the situation for semi-casual guild of ours is dramatic, we are struggling to keep enough ranged dps. People who were not mages are trying to reroll massively. People who were late to the party on their DHs are starting feralss or WW monks, and we ended in 9 potential leather wearers, up from 3 in WoD 13M.

So about your problem-well I don't know, we are usually starting an expansion with EPGP and massive demotion of everyone we are questionable of, so everyone start in the same bowl with the same loot priority unless they were recruited in WoD. So underperforming DHs will be removed in favor of others, who will receive a bit of extra EP upon boss kills. That usually clears people's mind on whether they should play what they perform at, or find another guild

[stevenho]

6 months ago I put in our message of the day and Facebook group that I would only be having 4 DHs in raid

Why?
If you are a casual guild, you shouldn't care if you have 2 or 6 DHs in your raid. When more than 30 ppl show up to first raids, you drop the people who haven't been raiding with the guild for months.
When you go and try mythics, you take 20 of your best, doesn't matter if its 2 DHs or 5. Not for a guild that does half mythics before next tier. It is not comp that is holding you back.

[Summer]

Repeat after me: This is not your problem. It's their problem.

As the RL you're not responsible for letting everyone have their way in anything they do. They're free to look for another guild. Even if you had never communicated anything whatsoever, anyone returning from a long break should have been checking with you about a raid spot anyways.

Just tell them to find another guild if you don't have the space.

[Saverem]

We have 0 demon hunters in our guild and are struggling to recruit a good one lol

FTFY m8

[Dangg]

Why?
If you are a casual guild, you shouldn't care if you have 2 or 6 DHs in your raid. When more than 30 ppl show up to first raids, you drop the people who haven't been raiding with the guild for months.
When you go and try mythics, you take 20 of your best, doesn't matter if its 2 DHs or 5. Not for a guild that does half mythics before next tier. It is not comp that is holding you back.

Isn't it even harder to work around a bad setup when you have unskilled players?

[Djriff]

Well since mythic+ is viable end content, just have your extra DH's go do that instead. You could always work on a rotation of them or something. At the end of the day it's your decision as RL, and from the sounds of it they seem ready to accept that, even with plenty of warning.

As for other people saying that your in guild communication skills are poor, it is not your fault if people can't read fb posts or guild notes. This is their fault, not yours.

As for your 3 day raider of all of WoD, if they're serious about tanking and raiding and you don't think they'll flake, keep them as a backup tank. Always better to have one on hand than to have to pug a tank.

[kamuimac]

So we are probably a casual guild. We generally clear heroic and dabble in the first half of mythic before the next raid comes out raiding 5-6 hours a week. I'm slow to sit people as a raid leader unless the person has a history of just being bad, but we have a lot of friends/family groups so I'm often playing politics in addition to raid leading.

With the amount of people coming back I'm fully expecting 30 or more people showing up on our first raid night. 6 months ago I put in our message of the day and Facebook group that I would only be having 4 DHs in raid and that if you intended to swap mains and play a DH to get in touch with me. I only had 1 person do this, my top melee dps. Fast forward to yesterday and I notice we have 7 DH at 110 and another 4 between 107 and 109.

I put in the message of the day and Facebook group saying if you did not talk to me about raiding on a DH we may not have room for you at this point, and 3 people flip their shit on me. One says he's a tank...which I point out we already have tanks and that he raided with us exactly 3 times in the entirety of warlords. And I get various other excuses, threats, and complaints from the rest.

Has any other raid leader been dealing with this? I've ran dungeons with a couple of them to gauge how well they play...and for the most part they are all horse shit. I don't care if you pull good numbers if you are blinking and dancing around and pull 3 other groups. And since I am expecting more than 30 I see no reason I can't stand by my max 4 DH I had said months ago and let attrition sort it out. None of the DH other than the one who spoke to me a long time back were regulars. I feel like they will either quit playing or go back to their main when they see they have no spot in my raid, or anyone else's for that matter.

seems like bad leadership if anything. you should have taken care of it BEFORE expansion released - clearly people didnt recived the info or worse you have so low influence over them that they ignored what you said.

or other situation could be you are one of those overcaring officers in casual guild while rest of officers dont give a isngle shit as they can just take al 30 people into hc and sort out rooser while looking how people behave on progress.

also that part of DH pullign stuff with fel rushes - a) of they hsoudl position better b) the tank was shit for not helping them by positoning trash better

- - - Updated - - -

Yea right buddy...I'm going to sit my wife, my friend of 5 years, one of my officers, or the #1 ranked proving ground guy to give you their spot.

and hwy wouldnt you if he indded woudl destroy them on meters ? decide either you want to be hardcore have set rooster or casual and dont give to much fucks who comes inside as long as they do decent numbers and bosses die cause they follow mechanics.

[Ater]

What my pretty casual guild has done is that they have created a spreadsheet that lists everybody who wants to raid in Legion and what class (currently we have like 40+ people on that list). RL/officers have been extremely clear that everybody will get a chance but nobody is guaranteed a spot after that. For some classes that mean we currently have 5-6 players. It also mean that we have like 15 melee and 9 healers (no raid group will use 15 melee and 9 healers during progression ).

Then they have put some really low minimum requirements when it comes to ilvls, traits in legendary weapon, gemmed and enchanted gear and good consumables.

First step is going to be that everyone who don't reach the minimum requirements by the time the raids open is out.

Then during the first maybe two weeks will be deciding who gets a spot in the future. Say we have 6 mages (we have and I'm one of them) and room for 3, all the mages will get to play during the first two weeks. Then RL and officers going to analyse the logs and the 3 who performs the best will get a spot in the future and the other 3 is out (of curse they will also look at some other stuff other then the logs but the logs is going to be the main thing).

We are pretty casual and people wont have 100% attendance because of IRL, so I'm guessing we are going with like 25-30 people in the end, and we will probably rather take 4 people from the same class if they are good and fit the reaid team then 3 people from that class and bringing in a pretty bad player from another class.

The once who don't make it into the team are also more then welcome to start up a second raid group in the guild.