[Shadow] 845 ilv , 40% haste - Do I keep going up?

[Jullyx]

You're either A.) trolling, or B.) completely missing the ball. What he is saying is that 10k crit is AWFUL if compared to 10k haste instead, but having haste/crit gear with haste as the priority gives consistent dps. Youre failing to see what crit does to your dps. That haste is a CONSTANT influx, where crit is PERCENTAGE BASED and benefits from the effects of haste. If you don't understand, don't stack it. Play how you want. Everybody is right with the build they find fun.

You are the one who is not understanding. I was being completely objective. Point at one thing I said that was wrong please.

[highpriestgarsha]

You are the one who is not understanding. I was being completely objective. Point at one thing I said that was wrong please.

If you don't understand the stat pri by now you never will. Bye Felicia.

[Jullyx]

If you don't understand the stat pri by now you never will. Bye Felicia.

If you don't understand math and statistics that's on you. Also, failed to point out a mistake.

[highpriestgarsha]

If you don't understand math and statistics that's on you. Also, failed to point out a mistake.

the mistake is you ignoring the logistics of how individual statistics play into each other, then proceeding to mock someones well-constructed advice to a neutral persons inquiry. You are using "black and white" theories on an equation that is anything but, while failing to see what the secondary statistics do for each other. the whole world does not revolve around you. The thread isn't "come pick fights with Jullyx," it is about the effects and suggestions of stacking past 40% haste. You challenged someone's explanation using flaw mathematics, were further explained, and are still crying and picking fights with people. The person not understanding math and weight-values is telling everyone we don't know what were talking about. Seems legit.

[Kilee25]

Not really caring to go too deeply into this discussion, but Jully's post had a point. Statweights as presented imply a linear and constant relationship to dps, unless qualified. If haste is above crit, then it implies having as much of it as possible at the expense of crit should lead to the most dps (I am hoping I don't have to qualify this by explaining that you still have to doo PP calculations on all the stats as a whole).

OP is asking if the statweights change if "go out of bounds."

It almost sounds to me like you are saying that exceptions to the statweights are implied and/or common sense, while OP is saying no, they should be explicitly stated.

[highpriestgarsha]

Not really caring to go too deeply into this discussion, but Jully's post had a point. Statweights as presented imply a linear and constant relationship to dps, unless qualified. If haste is above crit, then it implies having as much of it as possible at the expense of crit should lead to the most dps (I am hoping I don't have to qualify this by explaining that you still have to doo PP calculations on all the stats as a whole).

OP is asking if the statweights change if "go out of bounds."

It almost sounds to me like you are saying that exceptions to the statweights are implied and/or common sense, while OP is saying no, they should be explicitly stated.

Very reasonably put. But a flawed question is going to have flawed answers on every level. The mistake made is stating ANYTHING regarding this is the ABSOLUTE answer. Haste is going to directly influence dps through TCing moreso than crit. That being said, the definitive answer certain people here are clearly reaching for is non-exsistent. It is throwing darts blindly in the dark, and bringing personal variables of how we all individually view the question. When you stack 10k haste and zero Crit, of COURSE haste will be more valued, along with the other way around crit will always be more valued. Not to mention variables as far as playstyles and that some players have issues keeping up with heavy haste stack due to latency or flawed rotations. We are fighting a stupid battle and certain posters are simply belittling genuine people and calling them stupid. We're all dunces some of us are simply staying realistic and not fueling personal fires to infuriate others.

[Jullyx]

the mistake is you ignoring the logistics of how individual statistics play into each other, then proceeding to mock someones well-constructed advice to a neutral persons inquiry. You are using "black and white" theories on an equation that is anything but, while failing to see what the secondary statistics do for each other. the whole world does not revolve around you. The thread isn't "come pick fights with Jullyx," it is about the effects and suggestions of stacking past 40% haste. You challenged someone's explanation using flaw mathematics, were further explained, and are still crying and picking fights with people. The person not understanding math and weight-values is telling everyone we don't know what were talking about. Seems legit.

Reading comprehension is lacking. I didn't state my opinion when discussing the math. I said that IF the quotes related to haste were correct, then the partial derivative of the dps function with respect to haste would always be greater than the one for crit for all gear levels. This is a fact. It's not "I feel like I want haste" or "crit is beter with my playstyle". If this was true, that implies that a haste only item is better than a crit only item. I made a post to question the logic used. I respect Djriff a lot for the work he puts into the community and my intention was not to attack him at all. I guess my direct formulations make is seem otherwise, in that case I apologize. Saying: "I don't understand the logic" or "you are wrong"(not that I said this) are not offensive statements in my mind.

I never said that a haste only item is better, and if you want my opinion, which I never stated, I don't think it is better at all points of gear level.

[tiptopmemer]

Stat scaling isnt linear, there is always a point where something else comes along.

Lets imagine you have 100 int with 0 haste and 0 crit.

In this situation, int, haste and crit are linear effectiveness (1=1dps)

Lets chuck 10% haste on that swell 100 dps.
Now we're looking at some premo 110 dps.
Now lets add 10% crit to the mix, well thats 10% more
Now we're looking at 121 dps.

100 dps
30% haste
130dps
10% crit
143dps

100 dps
20% haste
120 dps
20% crit
134 dps

100 dps
39% haste
139 dps
1% crit
140.39 dps

100 dps
10% damage (pretend mastery)
110 dps
20% haste
132
10% crit.
145.2

If you had no instant spells, your cast times were longer than the GCD and had no outside factors, this would be your theorycraft for patchwerk.

Anyway, lets look past this.

Void form haste multiplicatively affects the haste you already have, not to mention the way it interacts with other stats as explored above.

Haste means our GCD is nice and small.

Critical strike simply modifies our damage (unless we allow a sneaky apparition to generate insanity)

Mastery is in the accelerated class, hes 20% ahead of the other stats (they're jealous, but nobody notices mastery, hes not flashy and easy to get to know)

Versatility is missing a chromosome, most people feel sorry for it, except pvpers, it seems like they work well together??

Im really bored of typing at this point.

If you cant figure out how this works, its not relevent to you, just gear haste as much as possible and take ilvl upgrades.

Also, simcraft doesnt account for the human factor.
You cant perfect your rotation while avoiding boss mechanics at the higher end of void form, your brain just cant keep up all the time.
Haste devalues quite quickly after it stops netting you consistent void form stacks for the 60-70% of the fight that you're not in S2M mode.
Sure would be nice to know the full math behind the stat weights presented to us, because everyone except those who developed the simulations are either blindly guessing or blindly following.