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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    Destro is literally fine in both mythic dungeons and raids, you cannot expect all 3 specs to be equally strong LUL
    Why not? That's the whole point of BALANCE is to make it so all dps specs are viable to some degree so no one is forced into a role after dumping time and effort into these stupid ass artifacts. The fact there is a 100k+ difference in DPS from the top class to the lowest shows blizzard failed to balance this game.
    Last edited by xpose; 2016-09-14 at 12:44 PM.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Katjezz View Post
    Destro is literally fine in both mythic dungeons and raids, you cannot expect all 3 specs to be equally strong LUL
    Yeah it's so fun to compete with 810-825 ilvl druids/hunters/anything that isn't frost dk or ret paladin as 845 affliction warlock guess they hired someone like you to make affliction for this xpac.

  3. #83
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Yeah it's so fun to compete with 810-825 ilvl druids/hunters/anything that isn't frost dk or ret paladin as 845 affliction warlock guess they hired someone like you to make affliction for this xpac.

    Don't play affliction then
    Thats like playing a frostmage and expecting to top meters lul

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    Destro:

    Dps
    I had no issues at all and the 3 shard change was nice. It allowed me to ramp up dps quite quickly on both trash and bosses and finish #1 or #2 consistently. Also, with shard generation only getting better with gear, expect more shards/chaos bolts. I find dps on the move to be ok for the most part but requires some planning, ie keeping 1-2 charges on your weapon available. This will improve as I get Dimension Ripper trait unlocked. AOE is pretty decent for trash and bosses with single target talents but requires planning.

    Survivability
    Not an issue. As long as you are paying even a sliver of attention you will or can take minimal damage passively or straight up ignore certain mechanics (at least in Mythics) if you blow a def. cool down.

    Mobility
    I haven't really found this to be an issue really, although it would have been nice to get burning rush as a baseline.

    Utility
    Cookies are nice and generally welcomed in any group/raid setting. Seems to get a lot of use. The Gate is essentially a gimmick except on a couple fights, even then it might only get used once per person if that. Summoning......is dead. I wish they would allow us to summon people within an instanced again. Also, I miss having an interrupt available, I hate the idea of having to gimp personal dps in order to get it.

    What I would fix.
    Burning Rush baseline.
    I would change how the pets casting works. Currently the imp and doomguard have a casting time for their spells. I would change this to an instant cast with a cd that would be shortened with haste. This will essentially "fix" ranged pet dps for the most part and will make switching targets much easier.
    Shorten the cooldown for the Gateway so that it would be able to be used twice on a Mythic encounter.
    This is exactly what my experience and thoughts are as well. With the exception that I'm fine with Burning Rush being a talent, but I'd prefer that they give us back Teleport and make Gateway the talent instead. Also, AOE on trash is terrible unless you pick up Cataclysm or Fire and Brimstone, but I can accept that and without picking one of those 2 now that we start with 3 shards I can at least be competitive and useful during trash.
    Last edited by CodeConqueror; 2016-09-14 at 01:08 PM.

  5. #85
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    Destro:

    Dps
    I had no issues at all and the 3 shard change was nice. It allowed me to ramp up dps quite quickly on both trash and bosses and finish #1 or #2 consistently. Also, with shard generation only getting better with gear, expect more shards/chaos bolts. I find dps on the move to be ok for the most part but requires some planning, ie keeping 1-2 charges on your weapon available. This will improve as I get Dimension Ripper trait unlocked. AOE is pretty decent for trash and bosses with single target talents but requires planning.

    Survivability
    Not an issue. As long as you are paying even a sliver of attention you will or can take minimal damage passively or straight up ignore certain mechanics (at least in Mythics) if you blow a def. cool down.

    Mobility
    I haven't really found this to be an issue really, although it would have been nice to get burning rush as a baseline.

    Utility
    Cookies are nice and generally welcomed in any group/raid setting. Seems to get a lot of use. The Gate is essentially a gimmick except on a couple fights, even then it might only get used once per person if that. Summoning......is dead. I wish they would allow us to summon people within an instanced again. Also, I miss having an interrupt available, I hate the idea of having to gimp personal dps in order to get it.

    What I would fix.
    Burning Rush baseline.
    I would change how the pets casting works. Currently the imp and doomguard have a casting time for their spells. I would change this to an instant cast with a cd that would be shortened with haste. This will essentially "fix" ranged pet dps for the most part and will make switching targets much easier.
    Shorten the cooldown for the Gateway so that it would be able to be used twice on a Mythic encounter.
    dps: The ilvl makes such a huge difference, maybe you just had better equip than the others. As soon as you are in a group with ferals or outlaws or whatever dps and they got the same ilvl like you have, they will run away with damage.
    Or maybe youre a really good player that times all the stuff really well and rarely do mistakes. If the Outlaw in your team is only a mediocre player, you might top him, but if he plays really well as well, you simply have zero chance to be competetive.
    disclaimer: This is not against you, just my general thought on this as I have seen it a lot of times when Im in dungeons with different players of my guild

    Ramp up time is not the issue with destro!

    1. Necessary spells are talents but should be baseline (i.e. Cataclysm, Burning Rush or Portals)
    2. Chaosbolt cast time and damage (its so low for its cost and time) - could be easily hotfixed by changing numbers!
    3. Missing range interrupt
    4. After ~30 seconds into the fight we are out of things to do besides refreshing immolate and spamming Incinerate

  6. #86
    Itemization is key right now.

    I seriously re-rolled to a Paladin because my DPS was terrible. Then I got that 3rd relic slot and went out of my way to bring myself from 15% haste to 25% and the difference is literally night and day. I even re-rolled Goblin for more haste. Before I was struggling to break 120k DPS in most boss fights and now I'm solidly 160-180k and 220k + in any fight with a cleave mechanic where I can abuse Havoc.

    Don't give up hope, stack haste as much as possible.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by UserNotFound View Post
    2. Chaosbolt cast time and damage (its so low for its cost and time) - could be easily hotfixed by changing numbers!
    This is the main thing that annoys me about Destro atm. It feels like hard-casting Soul Fire as Demonology in WoD without Molten Core - takes ages and doesn't feel like it packs a major punch. It's really awful in PvP as well, especially since a lot of other classes can hit much harder by doing a lot less. I actually assumed the 'low' damage in beta was just a tuning issue, so I was really surprised to see this carry over to live. I'd be more than happy for Incinerate/Immolate to take a bit of a hit in numbers if needed, in order to boost up Chaos Bolt damage. It should feel like you're bringing the danger when you cast it... atm it's just a slightly-above-average spell, but with a resource cost and long cast time.

  8. #88
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Yes Chaos Bolt needs some sort of change, for the damage it does it should not be 3 seconds cast baseline, IMO.

    Keep same damage, but drop it to 2.5 sec cast baseline. I don't think it's too much to ask for, because it's simply too slow and impractical now.

  9. #89
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes Chaos Bolt needs some sort of change, for the damage it does it should not be 3 seconds cast baseline, IMO.

    Keep same damage, but drop it to 2.5 sec cast baseline. I don't think it's too much to ask for, because it's simply too slow and impractical now.
    In an expansion where Class Fantasy is thrown around left right and center, I'd rather they just allowed CB to hit hard again - it's not like pvp balance can be any sort of excuse. Plenty of people on the forums have moaned about "Class X's ability Y hits harder than a chaos bolt", so it's not like we're hitting some balancing roof where they can't make it higher.

    Sure, it'll make movement feel more punishing and require more planning - but maybe that will help distinguish Rifts as something more than extra chaosbolts and make them really fit the role of "I need to fire a chaos bolt-esque ability off, but can't root myself for 2+ seconds".

    I wouldn't complain if the cast time was cut, but I really don't want to go back to charred remains style quantity over quality.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes Chaos Bolt needs some sort of change, for the damage it does it should not be 3 seconds cast baseline, IMO.

    Keep same damage, but drop it to 2.5 sec cast baseline. I don't think it's too much to ask for, because it's simply too slow and impractical now.
    This and Change Cataclysm to Instant cast, no cd with 2 shard cost.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenthy View Post
    That baffles me the most. The game is designed for "Do not stand in the bad stuff". That's what 90% of all boss mechanics boil down to, correct positioning.
    How this suddenly is not required of a lock in the minds of some developers is mindblowing.

    Three shards at the opening will surely help with our initial ramp up. However, speaking as a demo warlock, we suffer this horrible ramp up every time we miss our opportune moment. An easy example:

    You're building that demon army for your TKC
    - Imps are out
    - dreadstalkers are out
    - you summon your demonlord,
    - you buff their HP with Demonic Empowerment
    - you're about to use your artifact TKC but **stuff spawns under your feet**
    you now have three options:
    (A) Toughen it out and continue your TKC cast
    (B) You pop a cooldown, hopefully still hitting your TKC window and still take the hit.
    (C) You move, missing your opportunity

    A & B potentially incur your premature demise or at the least the wrath of your Raidlead/Healers.
    C will make you miss your window, putting you back to square one as you now have to get imps/dreads out and buff em for another decent TKC. Probably without the help of your demonlord.

    This is an example where we miss our window of dmg due to movement, but it can also be due to other things ofcourse. Say the boss immunes or hides for a bit. That gives us zero opportunities and just takes away our window all together.
    ----

    It's not to say that the change isn't a decent change. But it doesn't fundamentaly change our ramp up problem.

    but that's normal and was always the case (except when we had op casting on the move). if you have to move while your cds or procs are up you will suffer in dps. the problem is if other ranged classes can ignore that (like hunters, but that was always the case as well)

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    but that's normal and was always the case (except when we had op casting on the move). if you have to move while your cds or procs are up you will suffer in dps. the problem is if other ranged classes can ignore that (like hunters, but that was always the case as well)
    The main difference is that it's not just a small dps increase that one misses if the window is missed.
    You have to start the combination all from scratch, hoping you'll not be interrupted next time.

    In this example, landing a 2-300k TKC or a 7-800 TKC is not a minor thing.

    If your normal dmg comes more from steady use of spells, it's less of an issue than if it revolves around getting things ready first.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Pain View Post
    What warlocks needs is plain and simple more damage from the dots. they are greatly undertuned.
    A dot that last 16 sec should do more total damage then standard meleeabillities you can spam every 2 second.
    Our dots are just a tickle and can just be totally ignored, atleast in pvp.
    The easy and obviuos fix to make warlocks viable in both pvp and pve is to increase the total damage from corruption and agony.
    fixed.
    I win. Blizzard loves me.

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