Tornado Kicks

[boolawa]

How does this work? Hit's a second time for 25% additional damage.

To me, this wording means if my first one hits for 100,000, the second one will hit for 125,000.

This true or?

[Grimm333]

If the first one hits for 100,000 the second will hit for 25,000 its 25% not 125%. Together combined they would be 125,000

[Hinalover]

If the first one hits for 100,000 the second will hit for 25,000 its 25% not 125%. Together combined they would be 125,000

A few things to keep in mind about the trait

a) first of all the trait takes the PRE-MASTERY, PRE-CRIT baseline rising sun kick damage. So if your attack (AP * 9.1 * (1 + Vers ) * (1 + Rising Winds %) does 100,000 hit or 200,000 crit. It will do 25,000.
b) Like I said Mastery from the base damage is not calculated into Tornado Kicks.
c) There is currently a bug where if you kill a mob with Rising Sun Kick but not Tornado Kick, the next Rising Sun Kick will do Tornado Kick level damage. this is a known bug and hopefully will be fix soonish.

Otherwise it's still a worthwhile trait and should be taken over Gale Burst.

[Terahertz]

A few things to keep in mind about the trait

a) first of all the trait takes the PRE-MASTERY, PRE-CRIT baseline rising sun kick damage. So if your attack (AP * 9.1 * (1 + Vers ) * (1 + Rising Winds %) does 100,000 hit or 200,000 crit. It will do 25,000.
b) Like I said Mastery from the base damage is not calculated into Tornado Kicks.
c) There is currently a bug where if you kill a mob with Rising Sun Kick but not Tornado Kick, the next Rising Sun Kick will do Tornado Kick level damage. this is a known bug and hopefully will be fix soonish.

Otherwise it's still a worthwhile trait and should be taken over Gale Burst.

So if my RSK hits 100,000 before mastery and 150,000 with mastery the second hit will still only do 25,000?

[nightmann]

So as we get stronger, this trait will get worse? Thanks blizz!

[Babylonius]

So as we get stronger, this trait will get worse? Thanks blizz!

What? Thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works.

[Terahertz]

To answer my own earlier question, it really does not take mastery into consideration. At 42.8% mastery, the second hit only actually hits equal to 17.5% of the total RSK damage. 298k RSK + 52k TK.

Also, if your target dies OR you leave melee range just before Tornado Kicks can hit, your next RSK will be 2x Tornado Kicks for 52k+52k. Was this bug reported on beta or did blizzard ignore it like they seemingly always do?

[Shakugan123]

To answer my own earlier question, it really does not take mastery into consideration. At 42.8% mastery, the second hit only actually hits equal to 17.5% of the total RSK damage. 298k RSK + 52k TK.

Also, if your target dies OR you leave melee range just before Tornado Kicks can hit, your next RSK will be 2x Tornado Kicks for 52k+52k. Was this bug reported on beta or did blizzard ignore it like they seemingly always do?

I hope they fix that bug...

Anybody else slightly annoyed that clones don't mimic the second hit from Tornado Kicks? It's not a deal breaker or anything, just a bit annoying that they don't, but oh well.

[nightmann]

What? Thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works.

Right because as tiers get higher and we get gear with higher numbers of mastery, the majority of our dps is going to be coming from mastery + hit combo, none of which is figured into this trait. i.e. it will become progressively weaker as a % of our damage, not flat out number wise. Obviously it will hit harder, that hit will just mean a lot less.

[Babylonius]

Right because as tiers get higher and we get gear with higher numbers of mastery, the majority of our dps is going to be coming from mastery + hit combo, none of which is figured into this trait. i.e. it will become progressively weaker as a % of our damage, not flat out number wise. Obviously it will hit harder, that hit will just mean a lot less.

Comparatively weaker is very different from the trait getting worse.

[nightmann]

Comparatively weaker is very different from the trait getting worse.

Are you seriously going to quibble over the definition distinction between weaker and worse? As we gear up the ability will be a lower % of our overall damage than it is now: fact. That means it gets worse, demonstrably. The end. Thats how this works, that's how all of this works.

[Babylonius]

Are you seriously going to quibble over the definition distinction between weaker and worse? As we gear up the ability will be a lower % of our overall damage than it is now: fact. That means it gets worse, demonstrably. The end. Thats how this works, that's how all of this works.

Yes, I am going to quibble, because if someone reads it gets worse, they assume it loses power. Like how SEF was bugged at the start of 7.0 so it would literally get worse with more mastery, more mastery = less DPS during SEF, which isn't the case. Other abilities become comparatively weaker as we gain gear, Touch of Death drops off dramatically as a % of our damage if you just add a second target unless you have the legendary. Crosswinds becomes weaker compared to FoF with more Mastery and more targets.

It may be semantics, but I've been on hear for a long time and I've seen semantics be the difference between the sky falling and calm discussion.

[nightmann]

Yes, I am going to quibble, because if someone reads it gets worse, they assume it loses power. Like how SEF was bugged at the start of 7.0 so it would literally get worse with more mastery, more mastery = less DPS during SEF, which isn't the case. Other abilities become comparatively weaker as we gain gear, Touch of Death drops off dramatically as a % of our damage if you just add a second target unless you have the legendary. Crosswinds becomes weaker compared to FoF with more Mastery and more targets.

It may be semantics, but I've been on hear for a long time and I've seen semantics be the difference between the sky falling and calm discussion.

You're comparing apples and oranges, no one is comparing tod st with tod 2tg, or cleave fights. We're talking same exact conditions right now and with better gear. And the trait gets worse with better gear. Under the same exact conditions.

[Babylonius]

You're comparing apples and oranges, no one is comparing tod st with tod 2tg, or cleave fights. We're talking same exact conditions right now and with better gear. And the trait gets worse with better gear. Under the same exact conditions.

With better gear, meaning more AP, the initial RSK will do more damage, even before Mastery, so the 25% will be larger. Thats not getting worse, thats getting better. The more Mastery you have, the wider the gap between the RSK damage and RSK + Mastery, so the more Mastery you get, the less of a % of the RSK+Mastery damage the Tornado Kick will be, while staying 25% of the pre-Mastery damage.

If you get more Agility, but lose some Mastery to get it, Tornado Kick will be comparatively stronger.

[nightmann]

I just fail to see why they can't just have it take into consideration the actual modified rsk damage we see on the screen, that's what the trait purports to do. The end result is pretty trite and pathetic when you do a 500k rsk and then that golden trait you were looking forward to craps out a 25k second kick. "Working as intended". That is absurd, especially when comparing the golden traits of other artifacts. The fact that there's even discussion on the ability scaling inversely with gear is a red flag that it's lacking and needs consideration.

[Dungo]

I mainly hate the new animation of Rising Sun Kick that the trait gives us. Just makes the ability look stupid lol

[Babylonius]

I just fail to see why they can't just have it take into consideration the actual modified rsk damage we see on the screen, that's what the trait purports to do. The end result is pretty trite and pathetic when you do a 500k rsk and then that golden trait you were looking forward to craps out a 25k second kick. "Working as intended". That is absurd, especially when comparing the golden traits of other artifacts. The fact that there's even discussion on the ability scaling inversely with gear is a red flag that it's lacking and needs consideration.

I am mostly confused why they didnt just code it exactly like Sacred Draenic Incense. But... alas.

Because I'm a nit picker, to have a 500k RSK and a 25k TK, you'd need to have 500% Mastery, or 250% Mastery if it was a crit. A more realistic example would be a 150k RSK and 25k Tornado Kick, assuming 50% Mastery, which is still a lot.

[Shakugan123]

I just fail to see why they can't just have it take into consideration the actual modified rsk damage we see on the screen, that's what the trait purports to do. The end result is pretty trite and pathetic when you do a 500k rsk and then that golden trait you were looking forward to craps out a 25k second kick. "Working as intended". That is absurd, especially when comparing the golden traits of other artifacts. The fact that there's even discussion on the ability scaling inversely with gear is a red flag that it's lacking and needs consideration.

I just assume that it's because it's technically a second RSK hit, therefor would never benefit from mastery (being a repeat of the previous ability). At least that is my justification for it.

[Terahertz]

I just assume that it's because it's technically a second RSK hit, therefor would never benefit from mastery (being a repeat of the previous ability). At least that is my justification for it.

If that's the case then it should reset Hit Combo and not be affected by it. But it is.