Demon Skin moved means...

[Felpacino]

This change is better, because we're still tanky and we got our mobility back.

[effs]

Seems like a pretty useless change for pvp. Circle isn't going to be that great with how much uptime melee have + we have no slows unless you spec servitude for the doomguard. Also I'm wondering why the old backlash didn't make it either as an artifact trait or talent (at least).

[Deleted]

This change means very little overall. Chances are, you'll take the 60% health shield with one minute cooldown (assuming you sac your own health) over the permanent 20% one whenever you can cheese an ability since you'll still have the base version of Soul Leech at 15%. It'll only cut down on the regeneration speed of the Soul Leech shield.

[Mehrunes]

Well, fire mage atleast takes less damage against melee. As they have Molten Skin in their artifact tree, reducing physical damage taken by 9%.

Arcane and Frost have 100% stronger Ice Barrier and Frost have 6% less damage taken after Ice Lance through artifacts. Non-tanky casters after all.

[Deleted]

Seems like a pretty useless change for pvp. Circle isn't going to be that great with how much uptime melee have + we have no slows unless you spec servitude for the doomguard. Also I'm wondering why the old backlash didn't make it either as an artifact trait or talent (at least).

Assuming you talk about destruction, with how things are now you literally have only instant casts in pvp (except immolate and fear), even your burst with portals is instant casts. SB spam might be boring but its a thing. Affliction again except ua all other dots are instantcasts. And demo while having a hard time with all this casting, is a cc/utility king compared to any caster spec this game has ever seen.

If you dont like circle in pvp take coil. coil with havoc is nothing to laugh at, ppl were just used to much to demon skin.

[Deleted]

Don't know about you guys, but both survivability talents still wouldn't save my bacon against any half competent melee outside the pre-patch.

Circle being a legitimate choice feels like a buff if anything.

[wholol]

Don't know about you guys, but both survivability talents still wouldn't save my bacon against any half competent melee outside the pre-patch.

Circle being a legitimate choice feels like a buff if anything.

Thing is, the changes simply reflect the inability to reach a decision regarding the direction of the class.

All they had to do was put demon skin baseline and literally put nothing in its' stead and it would be miles ahead in terms of survivability.

keeping circle and shield in the same tier is fine, freeing up the CC tier so we can PEEL for ourselves is 10x worth more than whatever shitty changes blizz wants to come up with.

[Gratlim]

Warlocks are not meant to tank. Blizzard made this very clear when talking about Dark Apotheosis's removal.

Removed to make Vengeance DH yeah...more like it.

Back on topic: as a pvp player, it means tankiness CD (demon skin + resolve + dark pact) is gone. Rogues and ferals will 100%-0 again. Mobility is nowhere near as good as Blink (it even eats 4% of your life each second) so Destro might become trash tier again. Oh well, was fun while it lasted. Would have been cool to play the Shadoburn shotgun spec for one season at least.

[Lethl]

Arcane and Frost have 100% stronger Ice Barrier and Frost have 6% less damage taken after Ice Lance through artifacts. Non-tanky casters after all.

Seriously, do mages have all that?

I wonder what devs see as a tanky warlock really. Rng Mastery that noone wants, passive shield or dark pact. I consider tanky, actually be tanky without defensive cds. Because once our shields are broken, we are squisy as f***. If they consider us to be tanky class because of class fantasy, we shouldnt be require to actually "specc it" through talents. It should be there regardless of talents.

I liked when we had HIGH HPs and soullink in the past.

[Naxere]

I'm of the opinion that when they make any changes to traits in the Artifact trees, that we should get a full refund on our points so we can decide to respec or not.

[Requimortem]

Don't know about you guys, but both survivability talents still wouldn't save my bacon against any half competent melee outside the pre-patch.

Circle being a legitimate choice feels like a buff if anything.

I'm fairly certain what you're experiencing is a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Having Demonic Circle isn't going to change anything because melee will simply use one of their gap-closers and be on you in an instant. You'll die faster thanks to having even less survivability. If that's a "buff" to you, then I would like to politely request you find a different class to play because I don't Blizzard seeing comments like that and thinking this is the direction they need to go.

[Deleted]

The change is okay if we get buffs in other areas.

We were tanky. This is gone now.
We still lack mobility, damage, interrupt etc.

With this change we are officially the worst DPS class in the game by far.
Let's hope they can straighten it out to make us a bit better in other areas.

[BannedForViews]

When exactly did we have no issue ?
As long as I remember, people have been complaining about spec balance, builts, dev choices, ...

And please don't tell me "MoP was fine". MoP warlocks were an aberration and should never have landed so strong. We were the Legion fire mages : abnormalities of versatility.

I didnot play mop. I mean long ago when i had multiple curses, demonic portal, demon skin, death coil and howl of terror, plus soul link and still wasnt overpowered. They stripped all our utility, force us to make "meaningful choices" over stuff that was never that meaningful in the first place, and leave themselves with tats as the only way to atte pt to fix issues, they clearly wont fix.

are they going to just heap armor and versatility on the lock pvp template to "tank" us up? I wont hold my breath.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm fairly certain what you're experiencing is a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Having Demonic Circle isn't going to change anything because melee will simply use one of their gap-closers and be on you in an instant. You'll die faster thanks to having even less survivability. If that's a "buff" to you, then I would like to politely request you find a different class to play because I don't Blizzard seeing comments like that and thinking this is the direction they need to go.

Exactly why i never liked the skill, and hate gateway as well. Oh, so i got away, well too bad their gap closers were off cool down because im a warlock that can only move once! Why again do melee need so many gap closers?!?

[Nevalus]

With this change we are officially the worst DPS class in the game by far.

Nice overreacting.

[Deleted]

I'm fairly certain what you're experiencing is a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Having Demonic Circle isn't going to change anything because melee will simply use one of their gap-closers and be on you in an instant. You'll die faster thanks to having even less survivability. If that's a "buff" to you, then I would like to politely request you find a different class to play because I don't Blizzard seeing comments like that and thinking this is the direction they need to go.

Oh I don't think circle will save me in pvp after what I've seen this week.
I don't think any of the talents would have saved me in pvp but I'll happily have circle returned to me in pve.

It's a PVE buff (mostly) and doesn't seem to make much of a difference in PVP, though I'm not sure how arena will shape up yet.

[Soulzar]

Its nice to get Circle as the new Default talent on row 45, but the move voids itself by pushing Burning Rush behind Demon Skin/DarkPact. Before we could drop some tankyness (Dark Pact) for Mobility (Portal/Burning Rush) while retaining class strength in Tankyness with Demon Skin. Now we have to choose between sustained dmg reduction or burst dmg reduction, which is perfectly fine.. but a pretty big tradeoff for a mobility talent that can only be used for predetermined movement.

Aside from the core thought that Teleport should have remained baseline.....It would be nice to see Mortal Coil changed to be a Hybrid of what it is now (Snap Heal) mixed with old Dark Regeneration (Increased healing received for x Seconds) ... and then swap it with Burning Rush so that we could again choose between Predetermined movement talent or random movement talent.

[Deleted]

Nice overreacting.

tell me which DPS class is worse? (Note dps class means pure dps class. Warlock, Mage, Hunter, Rogue).

Tell me. They all have stuff going for them in areas they excel at and even better they are good damage dealers.

if you think warlocks are good and should be a high priority class for a good raiding guild then you are dead wrong.

[PowerOfTwo]

"swaps demon skin with demonic circle" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

upd. i actually think there are no warlocks in wow dev team at all. it's like they have no idea waht they are doing. (legion warlock revamp kinda shows)

eh, i'd be fine with the Legion locks revamp (since last time i mained lock was SWP, can't realy be nostalgic over SB spec... just playing lock now because nobody else wanted to do it) IF they didn't actualy take so much stuff away that used to be baseline... SF castime, Demonic circle, burning rush (kinda, since it wasn't exclusive with DP before, and i think drained for less?), an interupt since it doesn't matter if we sac felhunter anymore.... Like these are ALL utility / mobility things... Damage wise, love or hate the playstyle, we can allways be bumped up, but even if we were HFC arcane levels of stupid we'd still just be a big stupid meatstick rooted to the ground going "me does big numbers now 8-}"

Its nice to get Circle as the new Default talent on row 45, but the move voids itself by pushing Burning Rush behind Demon Skin/DarkPact. Before we could drop some tankyness (Dark Pact) for Mobility (Portal/Burning Rush) while retaining class strength in Tankyness with Demon Skin. Now we have to choose between sustained dmg reduction or burst dmg reduction, which is perfectly fine.. but a pretty big tradeoff for a mobility talent that can only be used for predetermined movement.

Aside from the core thought that Teleport should have remained baseline.....It would be nice to see Mortal Coil changed to be a Hybrid of what it is now (Snap Heal) mixed with old Dark Regeneration (Increased healing received for x Seconds) ... and then swap it with Burning Rush so that we could again choose between Predetermined movement talent or random movement talent.

They said at one point they won't do big class changes during xpacs anymore because that's what caused alot of ppl to quit MoP... but i sooooo want a talent revamp right now... just give us all our shit back and give us "boring" talents like "increases the range of demon circle by 10 yds" or "increases the radius / reduces the cooldown of shadowfurry by X"... literarly nobody would complain. It's a nice little cop out to where they don't realy have to make new talents and we get our shit back...

[Requimortem]

Exactly why i never liked the skill, and hate gateway as well. Oh, so i got away, well too bad their gap closers were off cool down because im a warlock that can only move once! Why again do melee need so many gap closers?!?

The thing is, together, they make for a decent combination that at least gives us a chance. It's not great but back when Demonic Circle was baseline I was able to at least give myself a bit of breathing room every now and then and when I couldn't, I had Dark Pact to stop me from being ruined right away. Now? I'm lucky if I don't get focused throughout the entire match and actually manage to contribute more than giving the Horde free kills.

Oh I don't think circle will save me in pvp after what I've seen this week.
I don't think any of the talents would have saved me in pvp but I'll happily have circle returned to me in pve.

It's a PVE buff (mostly) and doesn't seem to make much of a difference in PVP, though I'm not sure how arena will shape up yet.

I would not even call this a PvE "buff" as it would only truly benefit me in dungeons/raids and even then, I'd say taking less damage is more important than having the ability to poof to another location every thirty seconds. Outside of that content? I get way more use out of the health boost given to me by Demonic Empowerment.

[Skulkgra]

This change is better, because we're still tanky and we got our mobility back.

Are you completely clueless? How on earth by removing our tankiness and throwing in about 10% of needed mobility(Because demonic circle sucks bigtime(I'd bet 75% of time) , it's no problem for ANY of the melee classes, as they all have multilple gap closers) are they changin anything "for better"?!!

I am starting to seriously think that lock devs are starting to loose grip on reality. We had poor mobility and good tankyness. Yeah, sure, to make both our tankiness and mobility mediocre is a way to "balance" things.

God I just wanna hit person responsible for this stupid nerf in to the face. I know it ain't gonna help, but so is nothing, OKAY?? We've made tons of negative feedback, and blizz said they're gonna sort things out, as they're aware of massive unhappiness warlocks experience, and the next thing they do(besides an semi-insignificant(at least for destro) 3 soul shards buff, IS NERF our only remaining class strength - tankiness.

I mean srsly guys what is wrong with warlock devs??