BiS Obsessives

[Foj]

Not really meaning to create a troll thread here, but I've always found it ... peculiar ... that there is a segment of the population (probably a fairly small, but vocal segment) that feels that the "end" of the expansion, or when they have "won" it, is when their character is decked out in BiS everything. BiS being determined by questionably reliable 3rd party simming, or whatever.

I don't know exactly where this comes from. Was there some predecessor to WoW where you won once you had all the best gear?

Who thinks it's more important to wind up with everything BiS than to kill all the bosses?

Just curious actually. I sort of understand that it's nice to have the optimum everything, but I'm not actually familiar with interesting games where that's actually possible, except by either winning the lottery, or extraordinary persistence. (Vanilla Angband, I'm looking at you.)

[vaestmannaeyjar]

Most peopel don't understand how BiS items work anyway and wear those without having the complimentary items so they're overall bad players. BiS items actually change depending on what other items you have equipped... People just aiming for a fixed set that will only be efficient when it's done are gimping themselves and screwing their raid.

[Deleted]

It's the typical Achiever type from Bartle's taxonomy. It's not that strange, it just appeals to certain personality types. MMO's enhance and feed on these people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle...f_player_types

[vitor210]

Well I used to not be this type of player but last year I played shit ton of Diablo 3 and this type of mentally got hold of me. When you're at the end of the progression cycle, the "really end" is when you're fully decked with all the Best in Slot gear. Lets face it, in terms of progression is there anything beyond the Best in Slot gear? I don't think so :P until, of course, the next raid tear is released

[Foj]

It just seems weird to me when people blame the game designer for not providing a deterministic path to best-of-everything.

Some games give you that. Others don't. One thing for sure, you don't win WoW by having BiS everything. You don't even get 1 achievement point for it.

But then again, the achievements that give you the least points, yet are the hardest to achieve, are the most prestigious ... e.g. the folks to did Gonna Need a Bigger Bag before it was account-wide.

An achievement that doesn't even exist and gives you 0 points would be the best achievement of all.

PS that fucking rare crab.

[Deleted]

Before they have introduced random stats in Cata (on crafted items) and later have expanded the concept in MoP and WoD with warforged and titanforged items, you COULD actually have a character with BiS items in every gear slot. In BC, there have been items from heroics or blue crafted which were BiS for some classes / specs for a very long time even if epic loot from raids was available.

When have you started playing WoW? oO

[Tradu]

It just seems weird to me when people blame the game designer for not providing a deterministic path to best-of-everything.

Some games give you that. Others don't. One thing for sure, you don't win WoW by having BiS everything. You don't even get 1 achievement point for it.

But then again, the achievements that give you the least points, yet are the hardest to achieve, are the most prestigious ... e.g. the folks to did Gonna Need a Bigger Bag before it was account-wide.

An achievement that doesn't even exist and gives you 0 points would be the best achievement of all.

PS that fucking rare crab.

Personally I liked having the realistic, achievable goal of BiS gear as another thing to work towards after clearing the raid. It was also quite nice that eventually people were more or less equally geared, meaning ranks weren't a complete joke.

[Foj]

Well I used to not be this type of player but last year I played shit ton of Diablo 3 and this type of mentally got hold of me. When you're at the end of the progression cycle, the "really end" is when you're fully decked with all the Best in Slot gear. Lets face it, in terms of progression is there anything beyond the Best in Slot gear? I don't think so :P until, of course, the next raid tear is released

I totally understand where you're headed here. Sort of.

Going back to vanilla Angband, I had a character that I'd played for around 10 million turns, that needed one more piece of speed gear to win the game. And yet in the last ~8 million of those turns, I never got it. (Crossbow artifact.) Eventually I gave up. It was a strange feeling.

But on the other hand, that exquisitely low probability RNG piece that I needed for that last bit of oomph was something I actually needed in order to win the game. I never thought of collecting gear, just because, as a thing.

[Cæli]

It's the typical Achiever type from Bartle's taxonomy. It's not that strange, it just appeals to certain personality types. MMO's enhance and feed on these people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle...f_player_types

Aren't achievers more like completionists which would collect everything (like I would do for instance) ? In that case, gear is rather irrelevant since it is not humanely possible to have a real BiS, and these gear will always be upgraded, and are not part of the permanent aspect of collecting in your character, it's just temporary, making the gearing somewhat low priority compared to timed content like cutting edge or 100 arena wins/40 rbg wins.

So I really don't understand those who want to get the BiS gear and consider the game done, a real achiever will never think that.

[Foj]

Before they have introduced random stats in Cata (on crafted items) and later have expanded the concept in MoP and WoD with warforged and titanforged items, you COULD actually have a character with BiS items in every gear slot. In BC, there have been items from heroics or blue crafted which were BiS for some classes / specs for a very long time even if epic loot from raids was available.

I get it that collecting BiS was and (now barely but not really) is possible. It's just that it's not a means to an end. It's just ... a thing.

[Deleted]

I don't need BiS, I just want to down the the whole raid tier on hc with my guild. I tend to skip the farming once we clean it in one night. Gear is just a tool for me.

I rather farm some nice Moggs .

[Deleted]

Personally I liked having the realistic, achievable goal of BiS gear as another thing to work towards after clearing the raid. It was also quite nice that eventually people were more or less equally geared, meaning ranks weren't a complete joke.

Also, this means that there is more loot available to other people in your raid if one person already has a BiS in this item slot, so they just pass and somebody else gets an upgrade, which enhances the performance of your whole guild / raid team. When you never reach BiS, then there is more room for loot drama and such, and people taking upgrades from others because they are not finished. I have had more than enough loot drama in my life, one of the reasons I have stopped raiding, and this system does not help to prevent it.

[Foj]

Also, this means that there is more loot available to other people in your raid if one person already has a BiS in this item slot, so they just pass and somebody else gets an upgrade, which enhances the performance of your whole guild / raid team. When you never reach BiS, then there is more room for loot drama and such, and people taking upgrades from others because they are not finished. I have had more than enough loot drama in my life, one of the reasons I have stopped raiding, and this system does not help to prevent it.

This is a somewhat sane argument. But you're only talking about one slot.

Why would you ever want your character to the point where it couldn't improve any more? When you've reached that brick wall limit, there really is nothing else for you to do that involves character power. Why would you ever want that?

[Tradu]

This is a somewhat sane argument. But you're only talking about one slot.

Why would you ever want your character to the point where it couldn't improve any more? When you've reached that brick wall limit, there really is nothing else for you to do that involves character power. Why would you ever want that?

Because then you're on a level playing field with everybody else when competing for ranks, and the items you're using feel more special because they're the best items, not just "good" items(at least to me)

[Deleted]

I guess I'm sort of the person you're talking about, but it has nothing to do with getting the best items and then considering the game completed. It's because a big form of enjoyment for me is maximising my performance, so that naturally involves optimising my gear.

Maybe more so in the past, but knowing which bosses drop which loot and which bits are more optimal for you is quite important for progression. From a loot distribution standpoint it's much more efficient if people know exactly what the drops are and what their "BiS" is for that level of content. It would be sad if loot was awarded to a shadow priest because it was an item level upgrade but not the optimal stats instead of going to the warlock who would never have to replace that item again in this tier for example.

[Accendor]

When you never reach BiS, then there is more room for loot drama and such, and people taking upgrades from others because they are not finished.

... Which means they have a reason to continue raiding instead of just stopping attending until the next raid tier, which results in a bad experience for all other players because one guy was lucky enough to get BiS easily...

[Deleted]

Peculiar is a pretty good description of how I view this type of player. But they are mostly harmless I think. If that's what makes them have fun, go for it. Same with obsessive min/maxers, (I'm fine with stealing their hard work though)
I'll just chug along behind with my "oh this looks like an upgrade" mentality. As long as I feel like I'm geared enough for the things I want to do I'm happy.

[Echocho]

If there's nothing tangible to strive for after you've cleared a raid what's the point? Just unsub and wait for the next content patch.

[RobertMugabe]

Well, one big aspect of RPGs is to get stronger and stronger the more you play, so having BiS gear may be like winning this game

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Because there's usually time to kill after the final boss falls. Not just talking about the more recent droughts, there has always been a bit of time for top end players where you've killed everything, the only thing left to do at that point is to gain all the gear.