Guild Leaders: How to handle cliques?

[Trapped]

My co-GM and I have recently come across a clique forming in our guild, and for the overall sake of my guild, I'm trying to make the right decision, and am searching for advice.

Its basically a 4-man group (with an occassional 5th) that is ALWAYS doing stuff together, and rarely tries to get other guildies in on some of the action. With people trying to get geared up for the first raid, I feel its important to help each other as much as we can, as not everyone in the guild has the same amount of play time as the next guy. I play a pure dps class as a main, so its hard for me to help out with queues.

The clique:

Windwalker Monk (who occasionally tanks when he "feels like it")
Resto Shaman
Resto/Balance druid
Rogue
Mage (occasionally)

The shaman and mage aren't even part of our raid team, they literally just joined the guild because they are friends with our WW Monk and the Druid. The rogue is someone we picked up at the end of WoD, and he's slowly worked his way into it, and the other 4 have been playing WoW together for a long time. Anytime you look at the guild roster the 4-5 of them are always doing mythics, doing heroics, doing world quests, doing Suramar stuff... it goes on and on. The thing that I find most annoying is that they all hang out on the shaman's private mumble server, leaving the guild's mumble server quiet and deserted.

If they're 1-2 people short to run a dungeon, they rarely ask if anyone wants to go, they just pug it. I'm fine with people making close, internal friendships within a guild, but its to the point now where I feel this group probably doesn't care about the well-being of the guild, as long as they get to play together, they're content.

I don't want raid nights to be like its 2 opposing teams trying to come together to all fight the same bad guys. It's just not fun.

Should I just let 'em do what they want, as long as they show up to raid nights? I keep asking myself that, but every time I log on and see the entire group of them in the same zone/dungeon, it just frustrates me, and other guild members have spoken privately to me about it, too. As a long time guild leader (9+ years), its always been my policy to not invite groups of friends into the guild for various reasons, and I'm starting to see why. It started with the Monk, and over the past 6 months or so, he's slowly brought his other buddies into the guild, so it wasn't a group package from the start.

Now I risk losing a good chunk of my raid team if I decide to break this group up, but I want to do what's best for the guild. Any and all advice is appreciated!

(and for the record, yes, I have spoken to them about this previously, and they started helping out the guild more for a few days, then it went back to their old ways)

[Deleted]

My co-GM and I have recently come across a clique forming in our guild, and for the overall sake of my guild, I'm trying to make the right decision, and am searching for advice.

Its basically a 4-man group (with an occassional 5th) that is ALWAYS doing stuff together, and rarely tries to get other guildies in on some of the action. With people trying to get geared up for the first raid, I feel its important to help each other as much as we can, as not everyone in the guild has the same amount of play time as the next guy. I play a pure dps class as a main, so its hard for me to help out with queues.

The clique:

Windwalker Monk (who occasionally tanks when he "feels like it")
Resto Shaman
Resto/Balance druid
Rogue
Mage (occasionally)

The shaman and mage aren't even part of our raid team, they literally just joined the guild because they are friends with our WW Monk and the Druid. The rogue is someone we picked up at the end of WoD, and he's slowly worked his way into it, and the other 4 have been playing WoW together for a long time. Anytime you look at the guild roster the 4-5 of them are always doing mythics, doing heroics, doing world quests, doing Suramar stuff... it goes on and on. The thing that I find most annoying is that they all hang out on the shaman's private mumble server, leaving the guild's mumble server quiet and deserted.

If they're 1-2 people short to run a dungeon, they rarely ask if anyone wants to go, they just pug it. I'm fine with people making close, internal friendships within a guild, but its to the point now where I feel this group probably doesn't care about the well-being of the guild, as long as they get to play together, they're content.

I don't want raid nights to be like its 2 opposing teams trying to come together to all fight the same bad guys. It's just not fun.

Should I just let 'em do what they want, as long as they show up to raid nights? I keep asking myself that, but every time I log on and see the entire group of them in the same zone/dungeon, it just frustrates me, and other guild members have spoken privately to me about it, too. As a long time guild leader (9+ years), its always been my policy to not invite groups of friends into the guild for various reasons, and I'm starting to see why. It started with the Monk, and over the past 6 months or so, he's slowly brought his other buddies into the guild, so it wasn't a group package from the start.

Now I risk losing a good chunk of my raid team if I decide to break this group up, but I want to do what's best for the guild. Any and all advice is appreciated!

(and for the record, yes, I have spoken to them about this previously, and they started helping out the guild more for a few days, then it went back to their old ways)

You will not stop cliques. Either kick them all or put up with it.

Don't just try and "stop it", it won't happen.

[Trapped]

You will not stop cliques. Either kick them all or put up with it.

Don't just try and "stop it", it won't happen.

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying that. It's either a "deal with it" or kick them scenario.

[tripad]

Just stress more the part about them inviting into their little gang other guildies. If they consciously are ignoring that, give them an ultimatum, that or a kick. If its the part about them being a part of the raid team is keeping you from being rough on them, than I advise you to try and form other gangs (cliques) from the existing guild members who should on their own get geared together and etc... I'd tolerate them if they are showing up on raid times, do their guild duties right and not being pretentious or exaggerate their little gang (inside jokes, talk on VoIP about their relationships).

[Deleted]

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying that. It's either a "deal with it" or kick them scenario.

Do they do their job during raids? If so, not a problem.

[potis]

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying that. It's either a "deal with it" or kick them scenario.

Explain to them and remove them, your concerns are legit.

Your other raiders should understand, or talk to your other raiders first about it.

You just have a ticking bomb really, it might never explode or explode when things arent relevant, but it will explode.

You said it yourself "never invite group of friends".

[Lord Havik]

Is this a recent development? It could simply be due to there only being 5-man content at the moment.

See how they do in progression, if they work together with everyone else then fine; If they get all dramatic over one of their clique not getting loot, getting benched, etc. then get rid of them.

[Jewsco]

People are naturally going to do things with people they are friendly with. As long as they aren't disruptive and show up to raids and do thier part what is the problem?
Do others in the guild try to talk to them?
Do others ask them to do things?
Why should they have to ask others?
Communication is a two way street.
Not shocking healer classes are working together as it makes doing things a lot easier.

[glowpipe]

We are kinda in the same situation. But i am sorta part of the problem. We are 4 irl friends and one ingame friend we met in wrath. we are all in a new guild and we are around 16 members. Only 2 tanks.

My group, we gonna work on mythic + like there is no tomorrow. So ofcourse we do the mythics together now aswell. The other mythic group is also irl friends, so that leaves the last group without a tank and they are basically not getting geared up at the same rate as our group. But atleast when we miss one member for heroics we always ask the guild for members before pugging.

[Morrigenn]

Explain to them and remove them, your concerns are legit.

Your other raiders should understand, or talk to your other raiders first about it.

You just have a ticking bomb really, it might never explode or explode when things arent relevant, but it will explode.

You said it yourself "never invite group of friends".

IT

WILL

EXPLODE.

And that explosion will be at the worst possible time and doing the most harm to your guild.

You gut instincts are right. NEVER invite groups. Be aware of those "insider" groups that form. Biggest red flag here is the fact that they don't even hang out on the guild voice comm.

Bottom line, they're using your guild for their own purposes. You and the rest of the guild are merely disposable tools for what they want. Since you mentioned that other guildies have noted the same thing and spoken to you, the damage is already happening.

If you actually do care about the rest of the guild members and the longer term viability of your guild, boot them now and let them go suck the life out of someone else's guild. This is the start of an expansion, there will be lots of players looking for a guild to raid in who can become part of a team, so take a temporary hit to the start of raiding and get rid of them and recruit people who actually DO want to be part of a team.

Cancer needs to be removed.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Yeah... once there's cliques within a guild there's nothing you can do. As far as they're concerned the rest of the members of the guild don't matter. They'll start forming their own groups for raids etc and excluding all other members until they leave along with half of your raid team. You could call a guild meeting if you want and try to address the issue but you're probably better off just kicking them and letting them form their own guild. They'll likely never work with the guild as a team.

[Pull My Finger]

Intimidate physically. Proceed to beating up the ringleader, the other ones will cower instantly.

Well since it's an online game, that option isn't really available ... I guess I'm at my wit's end on this one.

[Kleos]

I have to say, they probably don't want to be looking for a new guild this close to raids opening, Just as much as you don't want to loose them. I'd have given them a ultimatum a while ago personally but at the end of the day raiders need to help each other gear, I think it's pretty clear from their classes they are staying together in a group so they can loot share etc. They should be loot sharing with other raiders, not social people yet.

[HeiAggra]

My co-GM and I have recently come across a clique forming in our guild, and for the overall sake of my guild, I'm trying to make the right decision, and am searching for advice.

Its basically a 4-man group (with an occassional 5th) that is ALWAYS doing stuff together, and rarely tries to get other guildies in on some of the action. With people trying to get geared up for the first raid, I feel its important to help each other as much as we can, as not everyone in the guild has the same amount of play time as the next guy. I play a pure dps class as a main, so its hard for me to help out with queues.

The clique:

Windwalker Monk (who occasionally tanks when he "feels like it")
Resto Shaman
Resto/Balance druid
Rogue
Mage (occasionally)

The shaman and mage aren't even part of our raid team, they literally just joined the guild because they are friends with our WW Monk and the Druid. The rogue is someone we picked up at the end of WoD, and he's slowly worked his way into it, and the other 4 have been playing WoW together for a long time. Anytime you look at the guild roster the 4-5 of them are always doing mythics, doing heroics, doing world quests, doing Suramar stuff... it goes on and on. The thing that I find most annoying is that they all hang out on the shaman's private mumble server, leaving the guild's mumble server quiet and deserted.

If they're 1-2 people short to run a dungeon, they rarely ask if anyone wants to go, they just pug it. I'm fine with people making close, internal friendships within a guild, but its to the point now where I feel this group probably doesn't care about the well-being of the guild, as long as they get to play together, they're content.

I don't want raid nights to be like its 2 opposing teams trying to come together to all fight the same bad guys. It's just not fun.

Should I just let 'em do what they want, as long as they show up to raid nights? I keep asking myself that, but every time I log on and see the entire group of them in the same zone/dungeon, it just frustrates me, and other guild members have spoken privately to me about it, too. As a long time guild leader (9+ years), its always been my policy to not invite groups of friends into the guild for various reasons, and I'm starting to see why. It started with the Monk, and over the past 6 months or so, he's slowly brought his other buddies into the guild, so it wasn't a group package from the start.

Now I risk losing a good chunk of my raid team if I decide to break this group up, but I want to do what's best for the guild. Any and all advice is appreciated!

(and for the record, yes, I have spoken to them about this previously, and they started helping out the guild more for a few days, then it went back to their old ways)

Man im a officer in my guild and something similar happens, we have small groups of ppl and it's fine. That doesnt mean anything. The issue is your idea of helping others, if they have time to invest to gear to level or whatever good but don't force ppl to gear up others because this will make those players lazy and always expecting to be carried. That's my opinion!

[kamuimac]

My co-GM and I have recently come across a clique forming in our guild, and for the overall sake of my guild, I'm trying to make the right decision, and am searching for advice.

Its basically a 4-man group (with an occassional 5th) that is ALWAYS doing stuff together, and rarely tries to get other guildies in on some of the action. With people trying to get geared up for the first raid, I feel its important to help each other as much as we can, as not everyone in the guild has the same amount of play time as the next guy. I play a pure dps class as a main, so its hard for me to help out with queues.

The clique:

Windwalker Monk (who occasionally tanks when he "feels like it")
Resto Shaman
Resto/Balance druid
Rogue
Mage (occasionally)

The shaman and mage aren't even part of our raid team, they literally just joined the guild because they are friends with our WW Monk and the Druid. The rogue is someone we picked up at the end of WoD, and he's slowly worked his way into it, and the other 4 have been playing WoW together for a long time. Anytime you look at the guild roster the 4-5 of them are always doing mythics, doing heroics, doing world quests, doing Suramar stuff... it goes on and on. The thing that I find most annoying is that they all hang out on the shaman's private mumble server, leaving the guild's mumble server quiet and deserted.

If they're 1-2 people short to run a dungeon, they rarely ask if anyone wants to go, they just pug it. I'm fine with people making close, internal friendships within a guild, but its to the point now where I feel this group probably doesn't care about the well-being of the guild, as long as they get to play together, they're content.

I don't want raid nights to be like its 2 opposing teams trying to come together to all fight the same bad guys. It's just not fun.

Should I just let 'em do what they want, as long as they show up to raid nights? I keep asking myself that, but every time I log on and see the entire group of them in the same zone/dungeon, it just frustrates me, and other guild members have spoken privately to me about it, too. As a long time guild leader (9+ years), its always been my policy to not invite groups of friends into the guild for various reasons, and I'm starting to see why. It started with the Monk, and over the past 6 months or so, he's slowly brought his other buddies into the guild, so it wasn't a group package from the start.

Now I risk losing a good chunk of my raid team if I decide to break this group up, but I want to do what's best for the guild. Any and all advice is appreciated!

(and for the record, yes, I have spoken to them about this previously, and they started helping out the guild more for a few days, then it went back to their old ways)

and what exackly is bad about it ? god forbid people had fun in game or have friends outside of raid group -_- seems like they relaised guidl doesnt have organized group for famring mythci so they made it themsleves to farm them efficiently - if anything its guild officers fault for they didnt sort this stuff before expansion, you had months to assign dungeon farm groups its you fail as gm not theirs

[Deleted]

Now I risk losing a good chunk of my raid team if I decide to break this group up, but I want to do what's best for the guild. Any and all advice is appreciated!

u r a pathetic control-freak, ur power-fantasies wont help to disguise ur real reasons (btw: if u try to "break this group up" (like Gestapo, hm?) the opposite is going to happen)...every1 and his mom knows, this group does 4 sure, they r going to leave soon on their own, cuz GRÖFAZ-syndrome cloaked in selective responsibility:

u would care for their version of fun, if u would have any common ethical standards.

[Deleted]

Not much you CAN do actually and depends heavily on the people involved. I try to make "cliques" just bigger, by just putting people into it. Inviting people of the clique + 1-2 outside of it into group content and so on - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Trapped]

and what exackly is bad about it ? god forbid people had fun in game or have friends outside of raid group -_- seems like they relaised guidl doesnt have organized group for famring mythci so they made it themsleves to farm them efficiently - if anything its guild officers fault for they didnt sort this stuff before expansion, you had months to assign dungeon farm groups its you fail as gm not theirs

Nah, its not about farming anything efficiently. They flat-out stick to themselves and rarely include anyone else. Why does my post make you think I dont want people to have fun? I have to make decisions to keep a guild going, which isn't easy in this day and age.

- - - Updated - - -

u r a pathetic control-freak, ur power-fantasies wont help to disguise ur real reasons (btw: if u try to "break this group up" (like Gestapo, hm?) the opposite is going to happen)...every1 and his mom knows, this group does 4 sure, they r going to leave soon on their own, cuz GRÖFAZ-syndrome cloaked in selective responsibility:

u would care for their version of fun, if u would have any common ethical standards.

What in the..... I don't even....

- - - Updated - - -

IT

WILL

EXPLODE.

And that explosion will be at the worst possible time and doing the most harm to your guild.

You gut instincts are right. NEVER invite groups. Be aware of those "insider" groups that form. Biggest red flag here is the fact that they don't even hang out on the guild voice comm.

Bottom line, they're using your guild for their own purposes. You and the rest of the guild are merely disposable tools for what they want. Since you mentioned that other guildies have noted the same thing and spoken to you, the damage is already happening.

If you actually do care about the rest of the guild members and the longer term viability of your guild, boot them now and let them go suck the life out of someone else's guild. This is the start of an expansion, there will be lots of players looking for a guild to raid in who can become part of a team, so take a temporary hit to the start of raiding and get rid of them and recruit people who actually DO want to be part of a team.

Cancer needs to be removed.

Yeah, the voice comms issue is the major one that stands out honestly. People meshing together socially is just as important to a guild than anything else, imo.

- - - Updated - - -

p.s. As a guild leader you should be able to tank imo but that's just my opinion, you can't look at someone else and expect him to tank/heal when you aren't doing it yourself.

This is a new one. I used to main a prot pally in BC and Wrath until I swapped to my hunter. I wish I could tank or heal on it, I would if I could, but I don't think its a prerequisite that you have to play a tank or healer class to be a guild leader.

[Saybel]

My guild is formed out of 2 cliques that I am the mediator between. Cliques in a guild work fine as long as you have a mediator who is able to communicate with everyone.

[Kalador]

I think clique alwayse happen in guild, in a group of 20-30 people there is always some plp that fit more together than other. As long as it's not a problem to the functioning of the guild I see no problem. Yes you have to be careful with them and be ready to take measures as son as they think they are above the rest and start shit talking or stuff like that. As long as it's just I prefer playing with those 3-4 other guys for non raid content I have no problem... You can't be friend with everyone...