How are warlocks fairing? Worth leveling one as an alt?

[Koojix]

Hey all,
Looking to level an alt for legion just to fiddle around on when I've done all my mythic and such on my druid. Warlock, Monk and Shaman have caught my eye so I was just wondering how warlocks are doing so far. Haven't really seen any, and if I do they honestly don't seem to be pulling big numbers. Anyone able to give me a insight to how their specs are doing, whats fun and if they're worth it at the moment? Cheers

[Draxtor]

Number wise, warlocks are fine. Affliction is really the only weak of the 3 specs. The mechanics of each spec no longer resemble what they used to, so if you've never played one then you might enjoy it.

[Tyrgannus]

Class balance changes constantly so looking at numbers alone, especially this early in an expansion before raids open, is folly. Instead, you have to look at play style and that gets a lot more difficult on what is fun or not.

Personally, I think Warlocks are more fun than say Mages but that's me personally. Demonology is nice at the moment, but I personally like Affliction despite the fact I know a few people find it boring.

[Gsara]

Warlocks are fine with the only spec being kinda low is affliction. Affliction being low is also mostly due to how 5 mans work and how fast mobs die. Ive yet to get a pug lock that couldnt keep up in mythics unless they were vastly outgeared by the group.

[Koojix]

So if I were to play a warlock you'd recommend Destro or Demo? Is one just simply stronger than the other?

[Deleted]

garbage and you wont find a raid spot

[Walrock]

*Shakes magic 8 ball*
"Not now, ask again later"

[Deleted]

garbage and you wont find a raid spot

This attitude needs to go die in a fire. There are no garbage specs atm. Someone always has to be bottom.

Anyhow OT: If you enjoy the playstyle, go for it, because the numbers will get tuned if they are to low :P

[Deleted]

I expect warlocks to be better in 3-4 months. Right now they are bottom tier, but the next big round of number fixing should adjust things a bit including nerfing other classes and buffing warlocks.
Atleast that is what people are hoping for. Back in cataclysm I hoped for elemental to get buffed and 6 years later they are still utter trash with the same trash spells lol.
You never know with Blizzard.
The only thing you can be sure of when it comes to blizzard is that all servers that are somehow linked to taking your money are working fine.

[Nethlord]

Number wise, warlocks are fine. Affliction is really the only weak of the 3 specs. The mechanics of each spec no longer resemble what they used to, so if you've never played one then you might enjoy it.

What are you talking about? PvP? PvE? I can talk to only pve, but you really are off here. Demo is broken from playstyle to output. Affliction has the weakest single target rotation in the entire game, and destro has to constantly ping pong between being decent at single target or aoe... But deals with an equally bouncy mastery that makes our output look and function like the above mentioned metaphor.

We are the least played spec in the game currently and our numbers are garbage.

[Draxtor]

What are you talking about? PvP? PvE? I can talk to only pve, but you really are off here. Demo is broken from playstyle to output. Affliction has the weakest single target rotation in the entire game, and destro has to constantly ping pong between being decent at single target or aoe... But deals with an equally bouncy mastery that makes our output look and function like the above mentioned metaphor.

We are the least played spec in the game currently and our numbers are garbage.

I explicitly said the playstyles are not what they used to be, I didn't say if they are good or bad. Destro is absolutely fine for sustained AoE, Demo is fine for burst AoE, and both Demo and Destro are viable raiding specs. Affliction is not the lowest current single target spec, that honor goes to frost DKs. From the artifact path and what Blizz has said they don't particularly want Affliction to be the single target spec anyways.

There is plenty of issues with Warlocks, but numbers are NOT the primary issue. Destro/Demo is middle of the pack with potential to be upper middle in specific scenarios.

[Koojix]

Demo is broken from playstyle to output.

By broken do you mean terrible or good?

[Esinar]

Hey all,
Looking to level an alt for legion just to fiddle around on when I've done all my mythic and such on my druid. Warlock, Monk and Shaman have caught my eye so I was just wondering how warlocks are doing so far. Haven't really seen any, and if I do they honestly don't seem to be pulling big numbers. Anyone able to give me a insight to how their specs are doing, whats fun and if they're worth it at the moment? Cheers

I've mained lock in raiding since tBC so here's my opinion for you.

Affliction on pure ST is the most boring it's ever been. It's pure and simply mechanically stale. Out in the world for pulling, multidotting and killing many targets (ie leveling and world questing) it works great. Drain Life as your filler also makes you almost immortal in all solo content, which is nice and is generally a nice spec for general world stuff. I wouldn't advise playing Affliction in 5-mans, as the 'burst AoE' you get on many mobs doesn't make up for it's severe downfalls on ST or 2-3 targets that are short-lived, plus Demo/Destro simply does an all-around better job in terms of adaptability. As far as raiding goes, Emerald Nightmare isn't going to be a great raid for Affliction unless they really buff its damage. There's no real fight where it's going to shine atm (except maybe Xavius last phase) and Demo/Destro are almost certainly going to perform better on all encounters. As far as PvP goes I've only really done bgs plus a few skirmishes. Affliction fills the same basic role as it did before, however now due to reduced mobility and lack of decent cooldowns you're definitely more of a slow burner now than before.

Demonology is fine as a spec on the whole. Is it better than the WoD/MoP version? Imo no, but it works for what it is - a summoner spec. Some people don't like the spamming of Demonic Empowerment as it feels like a maintenance buff which I totally understand, and others don't like the fact you only really seem to summon Imps - the lowest form of demons - instead of all the new or different demons we have in the game, but that's personal opinion ofc. The spec in itself feels very cast-heavy and can really punish you if you mistime casts and have to move. It's also a bit of a slow burner taking 20-30 seconds to really get going with the damage, which doesn't always feel great. I don't really enjoy it for solo world content due to ramp up time and lack of an execute, but that's just my opinion. As far as 5-mans go it's perfectly passable. Implosion works great for AoE if you get the timing right, but you're not going to see fire mage or DH numbers, and its fine for single-target for most boss encounters, but again may be prevented from really shining due to fights only lasting 1-2 minutes. In raids it's most likely going to be the spec of choice for pure single target. Any fight that needs quick switches though you might as well play another spec as Demo has next to no target switching capabilities. For PvP you can have some great fun, or a really bad time, depending on what happens. If several people turn and target you, you're pretty much a training dummy with nothing much to do because of all the cast times and lack of mobility, but if its only 1v1 or you can get some momentum going it's really fun.

Destruction works relatively well for everything atm. It really blows that several of our baseline abilities got turned into talents (backdraft/shadowburn/F&B) and leaves a bit of a 'gutted' feeling for those of us who loved the MoP/WoD version, but nothing we can do about that now... I'd say Destruction is the most versatile spec of the 3 and you can get it to work for most, if not all, situations. It has some very nice AoE with cata plus F&B, although you're not going to be topping AoE meters against many other classes with better burst. ST is fine, not stunning, but fine. Where destro really shines though is pure cleave, and that works great and is really enjoyable. My main issue with destro (apart from the obvious baseline->talent shit idea) is that Chaos Bolt feels really unfulfilling. It's just an average hitting spell, but with a long-ass cast time and a resource requirement. Just feels a bit shit that CB hits for like 300k, whereas mage's instant pyroblast, monk's blackout kick and many other abilities, all seem to hit much harder for much less of a cost. PvP is either the worst its ever been or the best its ever been depending on where you stand. For me, I think its terrible. Chaos Bolt is a dead-spell and you're forced to basically just Mana Tap, Firestone and Shadowburn to pick off enemies. Some people like that, but I for one thinks its awful design on Blizzard's part - where we devolve into a 1 button spam spec.

Overall, I generally play affliction for world content, and destro for 5-mans and enjoy them both a lot. People complain relentlessly about DPS in 5-mans, but as destruction I've had no real issue with keeping up with the DPS of other classes unless its stupid shit like living bomb and DH lol-aoe-faceroll. I'd be happy with a few minor buffs here and there but its not the end of the the warlock as some people are making it out to be. I'd be extremely surprised if affliction didn't get some buffs after first week of raiding, and destro's chaos bolt could reeeeeally do with another looking at, really badly designed at the moment.

[Deleted]

Less numbers than Mage. More fun than Mage.
Better questing than Mages. Monothematic xmogs :S

[Nethlord]

I explicitly said the playstyles are not what they used to be, I didn't say if they are good or bad. Destro is absolutely fine for sustained AoE , Demo is fine for burst AoE, and both Demo and Destro are viable raiding specs. Affliction is not the lowest current single target spec, that honor goes to frost DKs. From the artifact path and what Blizz has said they don't particularly want Affliction to be the single target spec anyways.

There is plenty of issues with Warlocks, but numbers are NOT the primary issue. Destro/Demo is middle of the pack with potential to be upper middle in specific scenarios.

I explicitly said the playstyles are not what they used to be, I didn't say if they are good or bad.

Huh? This makes no sense

Destro is absolutely fine for sustained AoE

Desto is fine when specced for it....at the expense of an extremely poor single target damage. The adverse applies. Hey if you're fine with using dozens of tomes everyday, by all means...the rest of us hate this.

Demo is fine for burst AoE

I quite literally laughed at this. Do you mean implosion? Yep see issue with destro....also YOU HAVE FAR LESS MANA ALL THE TIME. Darkglare? Really?

Demo and Destro are viable raiding specs

Again...I am laughing as I write this. Destro is the only spec anyone MIGHT take on a raid....demo is objectivley the single worst spec in the game. Next you're gonna tell me those simcraft numbers someone posted on mmochamp were spot on (demo was 4th).

Affliction is not the lowest current single target spec that honor goes to frost DKs

Ok, so second worst single target....what's your point? That it's awful....good argument.

From the artifact path and what Blizz has said they don't particularly want Affliction to be the single target spec anyways.

From the artifact talents alone they don't want affliction useable in instanced content at all. Everything in ON KILL....what use is any of that on a boss? Oh...you mean trash....wow.

There is plenty of issues with Warlocks, but numbers are NOT the primary issue. Destro/Demo is middle of the pack with potential to be upper middle in specific scenarios.

I mean....when you write things....are you also trying to shoot yourself in the foot as well? Numbers on locks not being an issue? Two of our specs have ramp-up issues almost a mile long. Demo has a literal 45 sec ramp....even with the 3 shards! You also fight your primary resource...with your secondary resource!! All the while you waste GCD over GCD for life-taps and doom reapplies....and endless Demonic Empowerment. Oh you're also punished for any kind of movement. Affliction is flat out weak base....with nothing but incremental buffs either baked into talents (that force you to be aoe OR single target) or the artifact. Destro....forces you into a limbo of single target and aoe. It is a mess....but it's the best mess we currently have.

If you even walk into a group saying "HEY FOLKS I'M A DEMO LOCK, CAN I RAID WITH YOU?" and they aren't friends or your guild....do not wonder why they laughed at you right before they kicked you from group. Trust me when I say I really want demo to be awesome, but it is bunk right now...really really terrible bunk. You're either running with destro this tier or you're gonna get benched.

[munkeyinorbit]

Hey all,
Looking to level an alt for legion just to fiddle around on when I've done all my mythic and such on my druid. Warlock, Monk and Shaman have caught my eye so I was just wondering how warlocks are doing so far. Haven't really seen any, and if I do they honestly don't seem to be pulling big numbers. Anyone able to give me a insight to how their specs are doing, whats fun and if they're worth it at the moment? Cheers

How bad are you?

How about you jump on a toon and do a few dungeons? Why does there have to be 10 "tell me what to play cause I'm bad" threads every day. If you like the style, youre prob gonna be OK at playing it. People need to start finding out shit for themselves.

[Draxtor]

Huh? This makes no sense



Desto is fine when specced for it....at the expense of an extremely poor single target damage. The adverse applies. Hey if you're fine with using dozens of tomes everyday, by all means...the rest of us hate this.

I quite literally laughed at this. Do you mean implosion? Yep see issue with destro....also YOU HAVE FAR LESS MANA ALL THE TIME. Darkglare? Really?

Again...I am laughing as I write this. Destro is the only spec anyone MIGHT take on a raid....demo is objectivley the single worst spec in the game. Next you're gonna tell me those simcraft numbers someone posted on mmochamp were spot on (demo was 4th).

Ok, so second worst single target....what's your point? That it's awful....good argument.

From the artifact talents alone they don't want affliction useable in instanced content at all. Everything in ON KILL....what use is any of that on a boss? Oh...you mean trash....wow.

I mean....when you write things....are you also trying to shoot yourself in the foot as well? Numbers on locks not being an issue? Two of our specs have ramp-up issues almost a mile long. Demo has a literal 45 sec ramp....even with the 3 shards! You also fight your primary resource...with your secondary resource!! All the while you waste GCD over GCD for life-taps and doom reapplies....and endless Demonic Empowerment. Oh you're also punished for any kind of movement. Affliction is flat out weak base....with nothing but incremental buffs either baked into talents (that force you to be aoe OR single target) or the artifact. Destro....forces you into a limbo of single target and aoe. It is a mess....but it's the best mess we currently have.

If you even walk into a group saying "HEY FOLKS I'M A DEMO LOCK, CAN I RAID WITH YOU?" and they aren't friends or your guild....do not wonder why they laughed at you right before they kicked you from group. Trust me when I say I really want demo to be awesome, but it is bunk right now...really really terrible bunk. You're either running with destro this tier or you're gonna get benched.

Dude looking at this you're clearly just salty. You're clearly unhappy with warlocks and have convinced yourself they are the worst, so why not just reroll?

Oh and btw, raid testing has been out for quite some time. This isn't my opinion, Warlocks dps isn't as bad as you think it is.

[Nethlord]

By broken do you mean terrible or good?

Playstyle=is the equivalent to spinning plates on long sticks...which are both on fire, while riding a unicycle and balancing on a tightrope. Also you are crossing over 5 tightropes unilaterally. The point of the playstyle was to get lots of things out and then gently keep them afloat....in practice it's more like throwing things up in the air and stopping them from smashing to the ground.

Output=Simply put you are dealing with multiple factors mechanically that affect output....all affect it negatively. All of our spells cost 6% mana, Shadowbolt, Demo Empowerment, Doom, Implosion (if you took it...which I think actually costs 12%...don't quote me on this), Demonwrath...channeled and costs oodles of mana. The most cast SB and DE suck your mana dry in two rotations before you lifetap (and eat a GCD). Shards effectively are worth 6% mana since each SB grants you a shard...which makes our castable Hand of Gul'dan cost a whopping 24% of our mana each time....also everything is a hardcast and are all on the same GCD. Lifetap is a GCD, a misplaced Doom, mana loss and GCD The constant DE same issue. Movement of any kind punishes you with a loss of a SB or DE....which affect mana by proxy of missed shards. You also are punished by massive dps losses because of this. Basically for demo to function or excel in any way currently You

1)Must not move at all
2)Must perform the spec's rotation perfectly under any and all situations. Failure of any kind is met with immediate and far reaching punishment for that one screwup.
3)Must have the perfect amount of haste/mastery for this to FUNCTION....not thrive....actually work.

Demo currently is unplayable in any instanced content (by this I mean sure you can play it, but be ready to feel useless) and is borderline useless in world content. Even single target output in open world is a painful slog.

So when I say broken...I mean terrible, really, really terrible.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude looking at this you're clearly just salty. You're clearly unhappy with warlocks and have convinced yourself they are the worst, so why not just reroll?

Oh and btw, raid testing has been out for quite some time. This isn't my opinion, Warlocks dps isn't as bad as you think it is.

Cool story bro, oh is this your friend ad-hominin? Sounds like a plan.

[Draxtor]

Playstyle=is the equivalent to spinning plates on long sticks...which are both on fire, while riding a unicycle and balancing on a tightrope. Also you are crossing over 5 tightropes unilaterally. The point of the playstyle was to get lots of things out and then gently keep them afloat....in practice it's more like throwing things up in the air and stopping them from smashing to the ground.

Output=Simply put you are dealing with multiple factors mechanically that affect output....all affect it negatively. All of our spells cost 6% mana, Shadowbolt, Demo Empowerment, Doom, Implosion (if you took it...which I think actually costs 12%...don't quote me on this), Demonwrath...channeled and costs oodles of mana. The most cast SB and DE suck your mana dry in two rotations before you lifetap (and eat a GCD). Shards effectively are worth 6% mana since each SB grants you a shard...which makes our castable Hand of Gul'dan cost a whopping 24% of our mana each time....also everything is a hardcast and are all on the same GCD. Lifetap is a GCD, a misplaced Doom, mana loss and GCD The constant DE same issue. Movement of any kind punishes you with a loss of a SB or DE....which affect mana by proxy of missed shards. You also are punished by massive dps losses because of this. Basically for demo to function or excel in any way currently You

1)Must not move at all
2)Must perform the spec's rotation perfectly under any and all situations. Failure of any kind is met with immediate and far reaching punishment for that one screwup.
3)Must have the perfect amount of haste/mastery for this to FUNCTION....not thrive....actually work.

Demo currently is unplayable in any instanced content (by this I mean sure you can play it, but be ready to feel useless) and is borderline useless in world content. Even single target output in open world is a painful slog.

So when I say broken...I mean terrible, really, really terrible.

- - - Updated - - -



Cool story bro, oh is this your friend ad-hominin? Sounds like a plan.

Like I said, logs from beta testing are out there. Even in dungeons Warlocks are fine as long as you're a decent player.

[athenaew]

Personally, as someone who raided warlock from BC, i find the class extremely underwhelming. I wouldn't say we are dead weight, but when you are balancing pure dps classes you have to make at least one spec good. Right now the only playable spec is destro and it rather mediocre. Playable, but lower-middle tier. It shines ONLY on 2-3 targets cleave fights. Demo have potential to be good, but it can only be good on pure ST fights with zero movement. No such fight exists right now. Affliction is just terrible with numbers. Can be easily fixed though.

And btw, beta logs show exactly this. I have heard many top guilds benching their warlocks for time being.