Getting kicked because playing marksmanship

[sultangurde]

I'm a MM hunter (858) and I've yet to be outdps'd by anyone else but a DH on big aoe pulls. I've even been in a Group of 3 Hunters, and BM isn't even close. It might match my AoE damage somewhat, but they have fuck all single target damage compared to MM.

Why play BM when you can do more AOE damage and load more single target?

So you are not playing with brave enough people. I have seen mage doing 3M+ dps on big pull (all mobs before 1st boss on Maw of Souls on M+4 i think).
My armory for reference: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...angurde/simple
Anyway this discussion is not about dps, but about mechanic of the spec. MM for sure can do loads of dps, but it cant res a tank (dont tell me you can spec out of Lonely Wolf).
MM cant also stun a single target mob for 5 sec. It cant BL.

[Zirar]

MM cant also stun a single target mob for 5 sec.

I disagree.

If you're running with Binding Shot (which you should) you can do a
Binding Shot --> Forward Disengage into enemy pack --> Bursting Shot to knock the target (or targets) out of the Binding Shot range.

While this is a lot more work for a 5 sec stun than other specs, it is utility, and i've used it countless times. It's all about practice.

I know MM can't BL (Even though drums is only 5% less haste and is a thing everyone can use and everyone should have) or CR, but mythic+ is all about CC in my oppinion, and using the prementioned method, MM can not only dish out amazing aoe damage, but also provide stuns if played correctly.

[sultangurde]

I disagree.

If you're running with Binding Shot (which you should) you can do a
Binding Shot --> Forward Disengage into enemy pack --> Bursting Shot to knock the target (or targets) out of the Binding Shot range.

While this is a lot more work for a 5 sec stun than other specs, it is utility, and i've used it countless times. It's all about practice.

I know MM can't BL (Even though drums is only 5% less haste and is a thing everyone can use and everyone should have) or CR, but mythic+ is all about CC in my oppinion, and using the prementioned method, MM can not only dish out amazing aoe damage, but also provide stuns if played correctly.

Damn didnt think about that. Still propably easier to tell on TS: using arrow, move mobs a bit

[eschatological]

The leader of this pug was probably putting his keystone on the line. One bad pull by a MM hunter could lead to him failing his keystone. You can't blame people for being conservative about their own shit. How's he supposed to know you're a good enough MM hunter to not pull extra mobs? BM is much less likely to do that.

[Cirayne24]

Free lust, BM has it, you don't.

That and barrage...

[K4sk]

Damn son you got gear. Mind linking your armory?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Elianah/simple

- - - Updated - - -

So you are not playing with brave enough people. I have seen mage doing 3M+ dps on big pull (all mobs before 1st boss on Maw of Souls on M+4 i think).
My armory for reference: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...angurde/simple
Anyway this discussion is not about dps, but about mechanic of the spec. MM for sure can do loads of dps, but it cant res a tank (dont tell me you can spec out of Lonely Wolf).
MM cant also stun a single target mob for 5 sec. It cant BL.

I agree the battle res is really useful, and we've had situations where we could've had 3 chests if only we had 1 combat resser. I'd never take Intimidation over Bindingshot, aoe stunning an entire pack is too useful imo. In worst case you can always Bindingshot into Burstingshot (the pushback thing) to proc the stun, so it's quite reliable.

About the Mage aoe, I've seen both arcane and fire dish out loads of damage, but it isn't consistent. The next pull they do next to no aoe, we really don't have any CDs to rely on, it's just heavy, bursty and consistent damage.

You sacrifice significant damage in both AOE and single target in favor of a battle res and heroism, which can both be supplied by other classes.

[Deleted]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Elianah/simple

Legendary explains it! I'd be lying if I said I wasn't madly envious of the Twisting Wind though ...

[Irian]

If it was EoA then I totally get it. Marksman hunters have a tendency to befriend seagulls. And turtles. And snails.

But yeah like other posters have said I think it's more of a fear of their keystone being ruined. With a pug you can never be totally sure what the skill level is and a bad MM hunter will just straight up facepull the whole dungeon. I'm sure we've all seen that guy.

[Gurluas]

Ironic, back in Wotlk I loved BM, and people always told me to switch to Surviva or MM.
Now I love MM and BM is the good one -.-

[Yoshimiko]

The only ones being bad are the guys who kicked him for playing a spec that does very well and probably equally good or better as the classes and specs they play.. That's pretty much it. It's very likely that they can't even fulfill the demands they set on others themselves. For all we know, we are probably talking about +2 or +4 here.

How dare Tanks to play anything but a Warrior!

As other Players noted already, they are jerks, nothing more - nothing less. They can do everything they want with their own group, that's true, but that doesn't make it any better.

MM Hunter is the only spec that regularly wipes my groups. I join random pug mythic/mythic+s all the time and I find MM hunter to be the ONLY spec I regularly have issues with. When I'm making my own group, I will not accept a MM hunter unless I know the dungeon I'm going into doesn't have the threat of pulling extra mobs and even then, only if they are a remarkable item level. I'm not the only one who has this opinion in my guild, friends or server, either. This is a chat that happens in trade chat fairly regularly. MM Hunters are just not very welcome in a vast majority of Mythic/Mythic+ groups, especially if you look at dungeons like Eye of Azshara, where you actively make the run harder and longer.

When you reach into Mythic+10 or so and actually have to start CCing things, not only do you NOT bring another CC, you(your spec, not you specifically) ALSO break CCs regularly, making it even more of a pain.

I don't think it's a jerk thing. Your spec is a risk. As someone making a group, why would I take that risk? Especially when your spec has, in my experience, had such an AWFUL showing in the past?

[Sazda]

not only do you NOT bring another CC

At the bare minimum, you have Binding Shot and Bursting Shot (more an interrupt)?

[Yoshimiko]

At the bare minimum, you have Binding Shot and Bursting Shot (more an interrupt)?

When I say cc, I mean like poly, sap blind, trap, etc. binding is an unreliable stun and I didn't think bursting even had cc, thought it was just a knock back.

[Zirar]

Damn didnt think about that. Still propably easier to tell on TS: using arrow, move mobs a bit

Rofl, absolutely, but in pugs i don't have that luxury. I definitely give an headsup when playing with friends or guildies!

Feels good to do that combo though. Takes me back to the good ol' Binding Shot + Glyphed Explosive Trap days.
Now with less tank salt because of the reduced knockback

[Sazda]

When I say cc, I mean like poly, sap blind, trap, etc. binding is an unreliable stun and I didn't think bursting even had cc, thought it was just a knock back.

Why does CC only mean "stun" to you?

I personally do not find Binding unreliable at all. Most of the time, your placement of the arrow doesn't even make it necessary to communicate with the tank. If you do, it is even easier and functions as a great aoe stun.
Any knock back is an interrupt, since it moves the target (well, Bursting also adds the disorient - but dispels harmful effects !).
If you want a different CC, you can also use Wyvern Sting (30s sleep) instead of Binding (I do not see why you would want that, though).
I'd even found Concussive Shot to be very helpful in many situations (obv less though for AOE situations).
Here is another form of CC that seems to be forgotten most of the time: Counter Shot to interrupt a targets casting (especially that one caster that doesn't join the stacked up group since he is casting. One counter shot makes him run into the middle of the pack).

[Jayeazy]

When I say cc, I mean like poly, sap blind, trap, etc. binding is an unreliable stun and I didn't think bursting even had cc, thought it was just a knock back.

Wyvern sting...

And Binding unreliable? Only as unreliable as the player. If you can't land a binding/bursting or even know what your cc talents are, that's your problem. I won't blame you for rejecting MM if all you've ever had is problems, but you seem to not even know the potential of it.

[Fang7986]

Hes probably just tired of all the idiots playing with sidewinders / barrage and pulling the entire dungeon all the damn time.

I play MM and play it carefully and Sidewinders still manages to pull stuff I didn't want so I specc'd out of it and am running just fine with a sidewinders-less MM build.

[Yvaelle]

And this is one of the reasons I won't be setting a foot in Mythic+. It will be full of pretentious wannabe hardcores that don't give a single fuck about actual skill

Yea I blew somebodies mind yesterday in a Mythic+2 group where we invited a pug tank and he tried to encourage the group (my guildies, in my group, with my keystone, no less) to kick me (Shadowpriest), because Shadow is pretty shit in dungeons. By the end of the dungeon I had changed his mind about how bad Shadow is.

Which, for clarity, we're bad - but we're not totally useless - I'm often top on boss fights - granted it requires I kill myself and lose 5 seconds off the timer - and it won't be true as of tomorrow when they nerf the shit out of Surrender To Madness... but still - not useless!

It's funny because I've been debating what to reroll if Shadow does end up totally gutted by the nerfs this week, and was thinking about picking Marksmen Hunter - apparently I'm a glutton for punishment