Doom Winds usage? +rotational questions

[Deleted]

so ive been using Doom Winds only if i have Stormbringer procc + min 40 maelstrom. Now my friend is using it basically on CD or to fish for Stormbringer procs.

now my question what is the general usage? on cd? fish for procs? only with proc?

also after reading wordups wowhead guide hes stating "Crash Lightning at 80+maelstrom for single target" i usually use it after my Stormstrikes for Stormbringer proccs. also i played a little bit with cutting crash lightning and it felt weird and it underperformed compared to my usual (use CL after stormstrike).

[Curulan]

I generally use Doom Winds on cooldown, but make sure your Frostbrand, Flametongue, and Landslide (if talented) buffs are refreshed before using it. Keep in mind that the ability does not consume a global cooldown.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I use it on CD when buffed unless we're a couple trash pulls away from a boss to ensure it's either up at the start or will be once I'm done re-applying my buffs.

[Imnick]

Doomwinds, you pretty much want to use on CD. It has a 60 second cooldown, so delaying using it is risking missing another one.

You don't really want to use CL to fish for procs if, when you caught the proc, you won't have enough maelstrom to use it.
80 MS is the amount it takes to use a Stormbringer proc, if you're using it below 80 MS to catch a Stormbringer proc and it procs... then you can't use it. That's the logic there

[orga]

I personally save it for a stormbringer proc , sometimes when its really not worth it i just pop it without , but yeah its insane with stormbringer up.

80MS is where you want to be with a strombringer yes , but dont forget that you're gonna generate some from refunding ( theres a chance to refund MS ) and you might get a windfury / few melee swings , so ye

[Deleted]

50 MS is enough for SB + Doom Winds. You generate enough MS through wf procs via Doom Winds to make 5 SS or even more in a row.

[Deleted]

Doom Winds is an amazing cooldown, and should be used as often as possible UNLESS you need it for a mechanic coming up, of course. If you can use it with Stormbringer up, even better.

There is a lot of synergy that isn't evident right off the bat, but it's important to note that Stormstrike and Lava Lash can proc Windfury of their own when Doom Winds is up. Because of that, you are guaranteed 15 maelstrom each time you cast SS/LL. So even if you don't have a Stormbringer proc, simply pop Doom Winds when your buffs are up and SS is off cooldown. If you proc Stormbringer, just go nuts, but even if you don't, just go back and spam Lava Lash and get those sweet, sweet Windfury procs from LL (which could then proc Stormbringer).

also after reading wordups wowhead guide hes stating "Crash Lightning at 80+maelstrom for single target" i usually use it after my Stormstrikes for Stormbringer proccs. also i played a little bit with cutting crash lightning and it felt weird and it underperformed compared to my usual (use CL after stormstrike).

Crash Lightning does not proc Stormbringer. It's a spell, and Stormbringer can only proc from main hand attacks.
EDIT: Apparently, it can.

Then again, Lava Lash isn't supposed to proc Windfury during Doom Winds either, but it does that too :P

Doomwinds, you pretty much want to use on CD. It has a 60 second cooldown, so delaying using it is risking missing another one.

You don't really want to use CL to fish for procs if, when you caught the proc, you won't have enough maelstrom to use it.
80 MS is the amount it takes to use a Stormbringer proc, if you're using it below 80 MS to catch a Stormbringer proc and it procs... then you can't use it. That's the logic there

Sure, but even if you're at 50 MS and you get a stormbringer proc, to use all procs and the unbuffed ability you need the 80 MS - in between your Stormstrikes you'll still be doing auto attacks, which generates MS for you. If I proc Stormbringer at ~50 MS I can spam out my SS without worrying too much about MS - most likely the MS from auto attacks will be enough, and if I proc a Windfury, I'm all set.

refunding ( theres a chance to refund MS ) and you might get a windfury / few melee swings , so ye

There is no "refunding" of MS - you either get your Stormstrikes for 20 MS from Stormbringer, or you get MS from auto attacks and windfury.

[Deleted]

Crash Lightning has a high chance to proc Stormbringer. Lava Lash has no chance to proc it.

Thats why we use CL as MS dump even without CS.

[Deleted]

Crash Lightning has a high chance to proc Stormbringer. Lava Lash has no chance to proc it.

Thats why we use CL as MS dump even without CS.

Crash Lightning can not proc Stormbringer. Stormbringer procs off main hand attacks, but Crash Lightning is a spell. You might feel like you are proccing a Stormbringer when casting Crash Lightning, but it's most likely just an auto attack doing that.

EDIT: Apparently it can

[Deleted]

Crash Lightning can not proc Stormbringer. Stormbringer procs off main hand attacks, but Crash Lightning is a spell. You might feel like you are proccing a Stormbringer when casting Crash Lightning, but it's most likely just an auto attack doing that.

Well maybe. But it procs very often with CL. It never procs on LL. Because even wf procs on LL count as offhand attacks.

[Imnick]

CL absolutely does proc Stormbringer. Probably it should count as just a spell, but the game still classifies it as also a main hand special attack.
It's been pretty conclusively proven by this point.

[Deleted]

Well maybe. But it procs very often with CL. It never procs on LL. Because even wf procs on LL count as offhand attacks.

We definitely need to test this more, because the behaviour of the spells is definitely different than what the tooltip states. I'll give you this: Perhaps stormbringer does not proc off the WF attacks from Lava Lash. We need to do some more testing. I wont be able to today, but perhaps sometime this weekend.

It should be fairly easy to see if the WF from Lava Lash is mainhand or offhand, because offhand damage would be half of the normal WF attacks.

The damage from Crash Lightning is Crashing Storms, which is counted as a spell, so CL should not, in itself or with the cleave damage, count as melee attacks to proc Stormbringer.

EDIT: Apparently CL does have a chance to proc Stormbringer.

CL absolutely does proc Stormbringer. Probably it should count as just a spell, but the game still classifies it as also a main hand special attack.
It's been pretty conclusively proven by this point.

Could you show where?

[vichnaiev]

Regarding Doom Winds, I have a question: wordup recommends in Wowhead using DW as a priority over Wolves. But .... in his logs it's clear that he uses DW every time a few seconds AFTER wolves are up. The logs show: wolves, bloodlust, dw, dw, wolves, dw, dw. Is his own guide not correct?

[Deleted]

Could you show where?

Pull 5+ mobs, do a crash lightning without auto attacking

[Imnick]

Worth noting that the damage from Crash Lighning is not Crashing Storms either, that's the damage of its talent.
Crash Lightning definitely does its own damage listed as Crash Lightning (which includes the echoes triggered by SS and LL).

Crashing Storm's DoT ticks do not proc Stormbringer, but CL's initial swing will.

[ehxy]

Crash Lightning can not proc Stormbringer. Stormbringer procs off main hand attacks, but Crash Lightning is a spell. You might feel like you are proccing a Stormbringer when casting Crash Lightning, but it's most likely just an auto attack doing that.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to stop you before you destroy what has been established on enhancement that has been answered MANY. MANY TIMES.

CL attacks with both weapons. It has a spell component to it yes, that is true but it also still falls under the category of attack that can proc stormbringer.

As someone said, pull 5-6 mobs and CL. If there's even more in the pull it's almost a guaranteed stormbringer proc. Are you just talking out of your ass because ANY enhancement shaman who has been playing since pre-patch knows this.

[Deleted]

Let's keep it civil, eh guys? I will be happy to test it out later, and I will gladly come back and eat my words if it turns out I am wrong. But if you could spend a little less time cussing at me, and a little more time linking sources, that would probably be more productive

EDIT: I promised I would test, and that I would be back. So without further ado:

I was wrong. Crash Lightning does seem to be able to proc Stormbringer.

While not a very scientific test, while running a mythic yesterday I paid very close attention to when I cast CL - and on most packs with a good bunch of enemies, CL procced Stormbringer fairly consistently. Not always, and not often enough to say for sure, but it did seem to do it.

This weekend I might have more time to test on a target dummy, and see if I can position myself in a way so I can't auto attack but CL can hit a dummy, and see what happens then.

[naushan]

Doomwinds, you pretty much want to use on CD. It has a 60 second cooldown, so delaying using it is risking missing another one.

You don't really want to use CL to fish for procs if, when you caught the proc, you won't have enough maelstrom to use it.
80 MS is the amount it takes to use a Stormbringer proc, if you're using it below 80 MS to catch a Stormbringer proc and it procs... then you can't use it. That's the logic there

Sorry to ask a few very noobish questions as I haven't played Enhancement since Vanilla.

Wording of Doom Winds says: Unleashes the inner power of the Doomhammer, causing all auto attacks to trigger Windfury, and increasing damage dealt by Windfury by 200% for 6 sec.

Does that mean when I activate Doom Winds, I should just let it auto-attack for 6 seconds to rack up the Maelstrom?

Currently I chose Ancestral Swiftness talent (+10% haste) over Hailstorm because my haste is not very high (only 15%) - and Icy-Veins recommended having 40% haste to Mastery (my mastery is 62%). With the Doom Winds in mind, I reckon having Hailstorm is better?

Again, appreciate all advise since I'm really beginning with Enhance.

Thanks!

[Imnick]

Using melee abilities does not interrupt your auto attacks.
As long as you aren't hitting lightning bolt, you will continue to melee hit if in range anyway.