[Shadow] There is hope, what would be "ok" for you?

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465

Note: tuning hotfixes aren't final. We're still discussing the changes, especially to Havoc/Shadow, and following constructive discussions.

So what changes to shadow would be considered "ok" for you guys? These are some of my thoughts:

• Personally I think the AOE situtation would be viable if golden trait "Call to the void" would spawn void tentacles which are able to cast Mind sear too (at appropriate damage levels).
• I agree it's kinda stupid that dispersion should be considered a dps CD, it should be considered and used as a defensive CD. So losing the ability to gain stacks with dispersion is fine.
• Void torrent should stay as before.
• Mass hysteria is very powerful. However the nerf might be a little excessive. They should instead find ways of buffing the other level 100 talents instead of nerfing S2M/Mass hysteria.

Suggestion:

• Rework legacy of the void, right now it's a very bland talent, my suggestion: In addition to the current perks:
  

  "Insanity drains x% (1-5%?) slower for each enemy affected by your DoTs"
  "For every x (10-20?) voidform stack you also gain x% (2-5%?) critical chance"

I dunno, it might just be wishful thinking or too OP...

[Deleted]

I think the problem at large lies in how they see the Shadow Priest ought to work.

Abolishing StM would be a good start. It's a talent that is forcing them to tinker with other aspects of the specialization that in turn rebounds on other talents, traits.

I really, really, really do NOT want to play StM. I can see why a lot of people do. But I will not invited in to my guild HC raids unless I got StM.
I barely got my RL to agree to let me join normal run while staying LotV.

I think their class and specialization design team has a very narrow point of view, very streamlined. I'm tempted to use the word dogmatic.

Currrent state of Shadow almost forces me to look back at WoD Shadow sympathetically. There was a point during which CoP and AS were both very close to each other and viable.
Now I don't have that choice if I want to go in to PvE outside of normal raid runs and Mythic dungeons.

[Rumstein]

Hotfixes are not final, but you really think there's time to tweak the changes they suggested?

[NickCageFanatic]

Mass hysteria is very powerful. However the nerf might be a little excessive. They should instead find ways of buffing the other level 100 talents instead of nerfing S2M/Mass hysteria.

Mass Hysteria with Surrender to Madness combo was and is currently (until Tuesday) the most broken damage oriented spells that ever existed in the 12 years of this game's existence.

You seriously cannot argue that I am wrong there...The only cap on the % damage increase on MH is 3 minutes which by my math is 360% increased DoT damage (assuming it stacked in an additive manner) in addition to the haste buff a single spriest could've been doing about equal dps to the tanks for 66% of the fight and then in execute phase skyrocket past the top dpser and win the meter race by a few million damage.

[Outofmana]

As someone who will not step into heroic raiding, we really need the ability to spread SW:P ánd VT to all enemies in a 5y range. Mythic 5mans are beyond frustrating, it feels like being boosted until we reach a boss (which is 5% of dungeons these days) making me utterly useless.

Buffing mind seer by 50% won't even make a difference, (even 200% buff won't make us outdps anyone). I can't believe they are tinkering with this spell again to 'fix' our aoe problems. It's always been too weak, or too strong (as in, you only need to use mind seer on packs, ZZZzzzzzZzz).

They really need to start looking at instantly spreading our dots to other mobs in the pack. The legendary ring passive feels like it should be baseline for spriests.

[Naga Coatl]

Frankly, the best and utopic utopic thing for me would be something like:

- StM remains toned down to avoid """""Unexpected overpowered stuff"""""
- LotV boringly buffed with something passive and hotfixable to keep SP decent this tier
- The announcement of a serious (and due since alpha) rework for 7.1 with the removal of StM or its transformation in something more conventional and practical

[SirreASDF]

Hotfixes are not final, but you really think there's time to tweak the changes they suggested?

Probably not, but at least they've said they're looking at the official forums for feedback. So if we're able to provide solid feedback we might be seeing some very welcome changes for 7.1. It's a little unrealistic to expect any big changes before that, not impossible, but not likely.

[alemaite]

I don't think they're actually going to change anything, but I would be happy if they at least buffed mind sear enough so that we are good in Mythics+... You know, since we won't be anything special in raids anymore and probably not even #1 in dps even if we do play well during S2M.

[Deleted]

Dot spreading on Mindsear would instantly make us the best class in 5 mans I think. So... that is never going to happen.

[NickCageFanatic]

As someone who will not step into heroic raiding, we really need the ability to spread SW:P ánd VT to all enemies in a 5y range. Mythic 5mans are beyond frustrating, it feels like being boosted until we reach a boss (which is 5% of dungeons these days) making me utterly useless.

If you are running with Monks, and Demon Hunters right now then I understand the frustration. Those particular class AoE abilities were over-tuned, and it looks like Monks will continue to be so whilst Demon Hunters get the brunt of the nerf bat.

As for Mind Sear, yeah it does crap damage on it's own, but that's why it's a filler. Mind Sear was meant to get you into voidform faster and keep you there longer (more easily) while your DoTs ticked harder and harder via Mass Hysteria. The 50% buff in insanity generation along is going to make Mind Sear extremely viable in AoE situations.

Personally, with 3 - 5 mobs in a mythic 5 man I'm hitting about 30+ stacks of Voidform on a decent AoE pull, but if a Monk and or Demon Hunter are present then they just take a the damage for themselves.

[Cleary]

I think with the change to dispersion I'd like to see it brought back up to an actual viable defensive cd, 90%.

[kalaratic]

a ton of ppl are saying that they're cool with the dispersion change so i think that one will go through and hopefully the void torrent one doesn't. imo i don't think they're going to rework any talents in the 2 days they've had to discuss this so they might just end up doing something like reducing MH to 1% but increasing the cap so surrender is more rewarding at the high end of play.

[Deleted]

They have an issue here, they designed a mechanic that has such high risk there needs to be corresponding damage. Now overall they clearly never planned on spriests being top damage single target and multi target (3~ targets) but this design in any terms of fairness forces them to be top.
They tried to initially balance this by making the ramp up very long, and when I say ramp up I'm talking in average raid encounters we can't use our best talent for 65% of the fight. That's a lot of ramp up. But for some reason, recently they have managed to pull a full 180 on what they had clearly decided was acceptable which if we think about it logically is the 180 they should have done when designing this talent in the first place.
The mechanic should work like this - because of the imminent death risk, it should always be better than any other classes execute talent. Always. But it should have a large trade off in damage for the rest of the fight which it currently does not, it's an average trade off. Too highlight this change another talent should be half decent throughout the fight. Allowing for the player to choose either a spec that only performs during execute or an average middle pack spec.
That's the only way I can see spriests working effectively this tier without being number one in anything and having no drastic mechanic changes. The other two talents, one of them at least needs to be improved to be competitive in the area S2M is weakest.

What I would realistically like to see them do from my standpoint of only knowing spriests and nothing about the overall game design? I'd like them to keep to their promise of not changing mechanics before raid release and reverse the change to dispersion and IN PARTICULAR Void Torrent. Mass Hysteria deserved a nerf, we are not weak enough early game to allow for this rediculous dps we were pulling so the question is, does it deserve a nerf from 200% to 100%? more or less? I'd say 150% should suffice but what do I know. Drop it down later into the expansion too.

Other methods of nerfing mass hysteria? remove the link between voidform stacking haste, the cd of mindblast voidbolt and the dots ticking. The methods of doing that sound horrible to me but the synergy may just be the only thing that is broken here. (even though that makes it fun)

[Deleted]

One of the things i'd see fix our AoE is having void torrent spread our dots.
New passive; Rip through void. Causes void torrent to spread your dots to nearby(5/8yrds) enemies.

[Kooja]

Hotfixes are not final, but you really think there's time to tweak the changes they suggested?

Definitely. It's something that is a simple number adjustment on most cases.

[Thrayne]

AoE on a 1 min cool down only castable in voidform seems pretty weak.

[Deleted]

A 33% boost to damage and removing stm would be fair for me.

[bonewax]

I dont want to see void form fixed i want to see it removed entirely.

Here's what i would like to see (even though it will probably never happen).

1. Give us back shadow form with 10% dmg and 10% phys.dmg reduction. Immunity to interrupt mechanics or a reduction in pushback on hardcast spells while in shadow form. Let us cast shadow mend in this form.
2. Give us back devouring plague. Each critical tick of it reduces mind blast cooldown.
3. More cc. Right now we only have fear. We need void tendrals back or a root to get melee off us. Legion melee has more gap closers and interrupts than ever.
4. Dispersion reduce all dmg by 70% and heals us for the dmg absorbed.
5. Mind blast has a 40-50% chance to apply sw: pain
6. Mind flay increases tick speed of all dots on target

Just some ideas that would make this class better. Get rid of stupid ramp up time like void form and give us back cc/survivability and burst.

- - - Updated - - -

One of the things i'd see fix our AoE is having void torrent spread our dots.
New passive; Rip through void. Causes void torrent to spread your dots to nearby(5/8yrds) enemies.

theres an honor talent that lets mind sear apply shadow word pain. Also mind flay does it on that same talent.

[tiptopmemer]

This is how i would remake shadow, top to bottom.
http://i.imgur.com/xyZBa29.jpg

[bonewax]

This is how i would remake shadow, top to bottom.
http://i.imgur.com/xyZBa29.jpg

A lot of good ideas but it sounds to me like you're a raider since you didnt even address the pathetic amount of cc's on that tier. Mind bomb is awful and so are the rest.