So what now? :( - The neverending balance of dps.

[Thaylen]

RIP Shadow Priest

[Qoma]

What I'm waiting to find out, is whether Arms is still fun after these changes. Having CS reset at an acceptable amount is a big part to that enjoyment. That said I'm probably sitting on 25k in AP tokens while I wait for Blizzard to make up their minds as to how to fix things, and if it looks like Arms will no longer have an enjoyable play style then it's time to start sinking into Fury.

[Jastall]

It's why I don't reroll based on sims. Stuff gets buffed, stuff gets nerfed. In the end, unless you're a progression raider that absolutely needs to perform, I think you're just hurting your own fun by chasing after the best spec in sims.

I mean, unless the spec I favored would be absolute and total garbage that can't contribute to a raid, like HFC Survival or pre-buff Legion Frost DK (which still sucks post-buff apparently, just not as much). But while Fury isn't in an amazing spot, I can't say that it has no place in raids (until you're pushing Mythic progression, I suppose) and we're quite good in M+.

[Larynx]

Wait, you were playing the spec you found the most fun and not following ever changing, fickle sims, right? If so, you wont have an issue! You'll still be enjoying whatever you're playing!

Unless...

Hard to have fun with shit DPS. This isn't a single player game where you can just turn down the difficulty if you decide to play sub-optimal.

[Snackwiches]

1. It's just sims, it doesn't have exactly impact on your DPS.
2. The difference between Arms and Fury is so small that I wouldn't even think about respeccing, that's ridiculous.
3. I'm 100% sure that Blizzard didn't yet finish tuning up specs.

Nah, Blizzard doesn't walk off of balance issues until about 8 months in when the box sales dry up and they take your money and use it to advertise the next 50 dollar box

[Luko]

Hard to have fun with shit DPS. This isn't a single player game where you can just turn down the difficulty if you decide to play sub-optimal.

On the same note, it's impossible to some to enjoy a cumbersome, spammy, or boring rotation / gameplay.

Sounds like it's subjective eh? I've been playing Arms since patch 3.0 simply because I loved the style and the background of the spec. This is actually the first expansion that I've found myself dropping it entirely for fury. Sheesh what a boring spamfest it is. Sure fury is braindead easy, but at least it LOOKS and SOUNDS satisfying as fuck. I'm a good player so I'll hold my own in content. Not like I'm pushing world firsts.

Spoiler alert: Neither are you.

[cFortyfive]

I'm a good player so I'll hold my own in content. Not like I'm pushing world firsts.

You don't need to "push world firsts" to play with competent players.

[Larynx]

On the same note, it's impossible to some to enjoy a cumbersome, spammy, or boring rotation / gameplay.

Sounds like it's subjective eh? I've been playing Arms since patch 3.0 simply because I loved the style and the background of the spec. This is actually the first expansion that I've found myself dropping it entirely for fury. Sheesh what a boring spamfest it is. Sure fury is braindead easy, but at least it LOOKS and SOUNDS satisfying as fuck. I'm a good player so I'll hold my own in content. Not like I'm pushing world firsts.

Spoiler alert: Neither are you.

"Spoiler alert," you literally have no perspective on this if you think world firsts are the only reason class viability matters. You can stop preaching about being right when you yourself admit the entire issue is subjective in the first place. No one cares that you look down on and feel superior to other players because they have the gall to dare play the game in a way you disagree with. Some people like numbers and have fun playing classes who put out big numbers. No amount of self-serving, arrogant remarks is going to change that.

[Luko]

"Spoiler alert," you literally have no perspective on this if you think world firsts are the only reason class viability matters. You can stop preaching about being right when you yourself admit the entire issue is subjective in the first place. No one cares that you look down on and feel superior to other players because they have the gall to dare play the game in a way you disagree with. Some people like numbers and have fun playing classes who put out big numbers. No amount of self-serving, arrogant remarks is going to change that.

"Gall?" Jesus some of you people take this shit very seriously. All I'm saying is, those of us who picked a class and spec out of pure enjoyment of that class/specs gameplay are going to be happy regardless, assuming said patches dont totally overhaul the way the spec is played from a mechanic standpoint.

Meanwhile, we get 9 threads per week complaining about how patches and hotfixes "ruined" someones class just because they let a written guide decide their choices for them and are now seemingly creating some sort of vendetta towards the developers for it. It's disturbing, really. If you think any of this is arrogant or self-serving, you should really take a step back and check your own perspective. This is a subjective discussion, not a pissing contest.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't need to "push world firsts" to play with competent players.

Nor does someone choosing "correct" specs, talents and stats make them "competent. We all know damn well that the majority of people following guides for their class/gear selection are completely underwhelming as players.

[cFortyfive]

Nor does someone choosing "correct" specs, talents and stats make them "competent. We all know damn well that the majority of people following guides for their class/gear selection are completely underwhelming as players.

Not sure how that's relevant. The point was not playing in a guild having realistic chances for a world first doesn't mean your roster consists of mostly cretins.
Having fun with your spec is obviously perfectly fine but I simply didn't agree with the notion that balancing or lack thereof only concerns them. Space for melees is limited as is and being in the average or below average category in all the areas often doesn't cut it.

[Fourze]

What we do now is await Blizzard's kneejerk reaction to no one wanting Fury Warriors in Mythic Raids.

[flzk]

im maining prot but, im really confused where to spend my second spec artifact power now. is arms still leader of the pack or did the fury buffs something to even it out?

[Ftp]

im maining prot but, im really confused where to spend my second spec artifact power now. is arms still leader of the pack or did the fury buffs something to even it out?

Looking at the new simcraft results, arms and fury are quite even atm, with arms being slightly ahead.
We will have to see though how the two specs compare in practise, as soon as we have some viable fury logs.

[Saiona]

Arms being slightly ahead but has a big crater in its potential. The Sims are much more rounded for fury and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know fury has superior consistent cleave,faster aoe burst on a shorter cd, and faster target switching. If arms is tied with fury on patchwerk then there's no reason to play arms. I went from 350k to 260k on heroic ursoc. Yes some rng played into both of those parses but I'm fucking done with arms

[willtron]

Looking at the new simcraft results, arms and fury are quite even atm, with arms being slightly ahead.
We will have to see though how the two specs compare in practise, as soon as we have some viable fury logs.

Thing is, they may be similar but sims don't take into account Fury taking 30% extra damage, so people don't want them for liability issues. Plus the who social stigma around that.

[Ftp]

Maybe it'd also be viable to just play both specs, depending on the encounter (e.g. is consistent cleave required or not).
Arms doesn't really gain a lot from artefact traits after level 20 anyway, so the rest could get pumped into fury.
I can see that maybe being viable in some time, when there is more artefact power available.

[Deleted]

im maining prot but, im really confused where to spend my second spec artifact power now. is arms still leader of the pack or did the fury buffs something to even it out?

Get both artifacts and try them out. Look what's more fun for you. Also, if you stacked haste, switching to fury as second spec would be easier, same with mastery and arms.