Seriously, how is the alliance even still around?

[Life-Binder]

pls

Huln would have soloed the whole Alliance before breakfast

[Rotted]

I made an account specifically to respond to you. I hope you feel special in that regard, friend.

One thing you failed to mention would be that of numbers. Orcs post-WCIII are vastly outnumbered. They fled to Kalimdor on a few boats, their population in the upwards of thousands, if I'm feeling generous. Trolls were being slaughtered by the Sea Witch before Thrall found them. Tauren faced extinction at the hands of the Centaurs. Forsaken are a dying people of rotting corpses, desperately trying to replenish what ranks they can. The Horde Goblins are but a single faction, with the majority of the Goblins remaining neutral. Blood Elves are a wounded people, their numbers greatly reduced after Arthas brought them to heel. The Pandaren are negligible on both sides.

Meanwhile, on the Alliance side, you've got several human kingdom's worth of humans - as Lordaeron survivors fled to Stormwind, and many of Stromgarde and Gilneas have done the same - backed up by three dwarven clans and their respective technology. An ancient, latent empire of amazonian warriors and shapeshifting defenders, led by some of the oldest beings on the planet. A spacefaring species of giants who have a confirmed working dimensional warship that outclasses everything the Horde has and then some. A race of ruthless beasts that, while few in number, can certainly match an orc or two in addition to having immunity to the plague. And gnomes, who irradiated their own home. Which means they are an atomic-era civilization. Once again, Pandaren presence is negligible on both sides.

Couple that with fractured leadership of the Horde, where there's been a lot of resentment towards the title of Warchief for some time now. And Sylvanas is likely to exasperate that situation. While on the Alliance, you've got a united leadership, with only signs of fracturing showing in Jaina's character as well as some tension in the Council of the Three Hammers.

Sure, the physical benefits of the Horde are present and by no means negligible. But in the US Air Force, they teach you something critically important: mass wins wars. If you have more bodies, more bullets, and more equipment, you win. The technological gap must be reasonable, but in the case of Warcraft, the Alliance tends to hold the upper hand in technology regardless. The Horde simply can't field enough people to defeat the Alliance. There aren't enough of them left. It hasn't been long enough since the events of WCIII for their population to recover enough to even compare to Alliance numbers.

Thumbs up for a good counter argument,

But I can't help myself

Of all the Bull shit, infuriating, neo nazi, dribble, troll bait and everything else under the sun posted on this website, its this post that made you make an account :O

[Pandorox]

Pretty sure Alliance has better heroes right now.

Tyrande, Malfurion, Velen, Anduin, Mekkatorque, Genn Greymane & now even Magni is back.

Horde has Baine, Sylvanas, Lore'themar, that Goblin king guy, & I guess you can count Thrall.. maybe.
Losing Vol'jin & Garrosh not so good for da Horde. Also Thrall stepping out.. it's slim pickin'.

[rowaasr13]

The mongol empire stomped pretty much every western civilization it went up against.

Except those that they didn't. Remind me, when you heard last news from Mongolia from TV? With them "stomping every civilization" and being our overlords you shouldn't have any problem remembering that - they must be in pretty much every headline, right?

[Thyphs]

"Mongols, American Natives and Jamaicans/Aztecs are going to pwn those civilized pansies!" (Those are source for Orcs, Tauren and Trolls, if you didn't recognize it).

Do you need reminder how good those fared in a war?

They also had huge numbers and mobility of horses......none of which the horde have in abundance

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sure Alliance has better heroes right now.

Tyrande, Malfurion, Velen, Anduin, Mekkatorque, Genn Greymane & now even Magni is back.

Horde has Baine, Sylvanas, Lore'themar, that Goblin king guy, & I guess you can count Thrall.. maybe.
Losing Vol'jin & Garrosh not so good for da Horde. Also Thrall stepping out.. it's slim pickin'.

Also....Nelfs have the demi gods ....cenarius ...malorne....yeah take that horde

[Korhali]

Forgetting something? *Sin'Dorei rage intensifies*

I mentioned the Blood Elves. I said they're a wounded people, numbers greatly reduced after Arthas brought the smackdown in WCIII. Not to mention mana addicts, making them a potential liability as well.

[Wries]

- Strategy. The "typical" Alliance will spend much more time making plans than the "typical" Horde.

Tbh all horde leaders seem to do in game all day is stand in front of a strategical planning map

[Korhali]

Thumbs up for a good counter argument,

But I can't help myself

Of all the Bull shit, infuriating, neo nazi, dribble, troll bait and everything else under the sun posted on this website, its this post that made you make an account :O

I've been around long enough to recognize this post for what it is. I just thought, with one last glimmer of hope, that I could bring it to a halt with a well constructed argument.

Seeing as how OP has blissfully ignored my reasonable response entirely and has continued to post his clearly biased and faulty opinion, I honestly should have known better. Now I just need to determine if I must crawl back into the darkness from whence I came.

[Heffladin]

Except those that they didn't. Remind me, when you heard last news from Mongolia from TV? With them "stomping every civilization" and being our overlords you shouldn't have any problem remembering that - they must be in pretty much every headline, right?

No Khan rules forever my son. But if we're talking about who slaughtered most foreign people? They're certainly up there. Had their union not been split in the middle of their campaign, surely western civilization would not look the same today.

[Deleted]

Look guys, I love the Horde, I truly do. If not simply because there is more variety in the races I can play than various types of human along with goat and wolf furries.

Regardless, the Alliance is superior, they are actual coalition of nations and peoples who truly care for each others sucess, the horde.... Not really.

Cairne, Vol'jin and Thrall had a great thing going, and it should never have included the forsaken or the blood elves.

The horde SHOULD have been Orc, Goblin, Ogre, Troll and Tauren.

Gazlowe as the goblin leader, rexxar as the ogre leader and then said three big names for their races.

likewise worgen and draenei should never have been added to the alliance, instead there should've been High Elves, Human, Night Elf, Gnome, Dwarves.

THEN we could've had a third faction, to really spice pvp up, and here we should've had Naga, Fel Elves, Draenei (the original broken ones), Forsaken and possibly some fifth race.

My point is, the racial and faction lore is butchered. The horde is no more. There is no real unity, no real feeling of a true faction. At least in lore, still worth in game :P Legion is just the forsaken, not the horde.

The Alliance is stronger than ever under a renewed Anduin, a king who truly looks to the good of Azeroth, and he is realising that the broken and fractured horde might not be such a great thing anymore, even tho he is on good terms with at least the taurens.

So yeah.... RIP Horde, you had potential, but blizzard went..... No idea, but bad direction :P

Regardless, still love WoW and it's races, I think they are all cool in their own way, but story wise it's a mess.

[Deleted]

Stormwind is on the southern hemisphere of Azeroth, where Azshara is on the Northern Hemisphere. Not to mention they are on opposite continents.

It took several days and nights, at least, to sail from EK to Kalimdor [REFERENCE: Warcraft III Reign of Chaos campaign, Orc Prologue], so no, a cannon in Azshara cannot shoot Stormwind, and also clearly isn't even pointing at it, its off by at least 45 degrees.

As I said before the aiming of the canon shows a portal to SW animation, the weapon could work with some teleportation magic. Goblins have mages too.

In 1492 it took weeks to cross the Atlantic ocean but now a missile can do it in matter of minutes. Same can happen with The Great Sea.

Finally the Tram that connects SW with IF goes east to west while the 2 cities are north to south in the map. So, or the tram doesn't exist, but it is mentioned in the lore books, or directions in game are not so important. Even more, if not pointing 43 degrees south invalidates the canon, 95% of the alliance players traveled in a tram which is not possible to exist as it is in game, so they died in a horrible displacement of time and space. Which makes the horde victorious.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Because Horde leaders aren't crazy and the ones that are and press for total genocide are dead.

[Deleted]

Is this still a thing ? This football hooligan style bullshit ? I play both factions. I started on Alliance and I know people on Alliance so I'll always consider that my home, but of my 12 characters, 4 are Horde too. I like seeing the different storylines and content.

I'm not a big fan of the spiky Orcish architecture and the whole "so metal omg so cool guis" themes. I'm not quite sure how much this is a problem with the theme itself though and how much its the cringe worthy fanboys it attracts - like - you guessed it - the OP. I do like Blood Elf architecture though. For the most part, I'm boring and like the vanilla fantasy Human architectural styles more.

I also don't see the people on the other faction as the "others". They're just other fucking players like the ones on your faction, seriously, get over yourselves.

I would suggest OP broadens his horizons and plays more of this game he's paying money for instead of this childish score keeping about who's better at what like.. in lore ? or what.. I don't even know.

[Maletalana]

As I said before the aiming of the canon shows a portal to SW animation, the weapon could work with some teleportation magic. Goblins have mages too.

In 1492 it took weeks to cross the Atlantic ocean but now a missile can do it in matter of minutes. Same can happen with The Great Sea.

Finally the Tram that connects SW with IF goes east to west while the 2 cities are north to south in the map. So, or the tram doesn't exist, but it is mentioned in the lore books, or directions in game are not so important. Even more, if not pointing 43 degrees south invalidates the canon, 95% of the alliance players traveled in a tram which is not possible to exist as it is in game, so they died in a horrible displacement of time and space. Which makes the horde victorious.

Very well, taking this fantasy world too far is redundant, I see your point.

I will add one point though, the Tram was originally meant to travel west to Kalimdor from Stormwind, and the art represents traveling under the ocean. They scrapped that idea but left the instance of the tram alone, so it seems east/west and under the water, rather than how it really goes north/south under the mountains.

Also the 1492 bit is askew as well, the goblins don't have Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Silos. They have a really big cannon. It doesn't shoot a long, skinny object, with low wind resistance, it fires a gigantic ball. The wind resistance alone would make the priming charge need to be enough concussive force to level the entire Goblin port-city if it fired.

[Shadowferal]

Cairne, Vol'jin and Thrall had a great thing going, and it should never have included the forsaken or the blood elves.

The horde SHOULD have been Orc, Goblin, Ogre, Troll and Tauren.

Gazlowe as the goblin leader, rexxar as the ogre leader and then said three big names for their races.

likewise worgen and draenei should never have been added to the alliance, instead there should've been High Elves, Human, Night Elf, Gnome, Dwarves.

THEN we could've had a third faction, to really spice pvp up, and here we should've had Naga, Fel Elves, Draenei (the original broken ones), Forsaken and possibly some fifth race.

Hmm..some nice ideas here...that could progress things. (I would suggest Ethereals for that fifth race in the third faction you have, with Nexus Prince Shaffar as the leader.)

The Horde is too fractured to be an actual threat if one were to view things objectively.

[Deleted]

Nightelfs can dedicate 10.000 years to training. Still not broken af somehow. Blizz explain.

[Deleted]

All jokes aside, and I'm not trolling, but the horde are just superior in every way for battle and combat - I honestly don't understand how the alliance is still around - bad story telling? cos there is only so many times you can use blind sheer luck... please tell me how the alliance is still standing?

Horde player here.

You're forgetting some things that even out the odds for H vs A races:

Tauren *can be* fierce and probably can kick the most ass out of all races in single melee combat, but there are very few of them, and a lot of them indeed are peaceful. In this, they are evenly matched with the Draenei (who are also not too numerous, but have the advantage of magic and tech and are more than capable of relentless combat, see the Warlords Maraad vid, Maraad was a p scary motherfucker with his hammer).

Orcs are powerful fighters and have a culture of conquest and war, but humans have the fighting spirit to match it, and a definite numerical and organizational advantage. If you look at the early history of humans, they are a badass and tenatious race in the WoW universe. A pike to the gut or a bolt or bullet to the face stops an orc just as well, and humans, due to them being native to Azeroth and buddy buddy with dwarves, have better weapons, tactics and fortifications to match the orc. Also probably a greater tradition of cavalry, an armored cavalry charge beats raw physical might versus infantry.

Remember also that with the fall of Quel'Thalas, the human mages (Kirin Tor mostly) carry the torch of magical supremacy. Which kinda sucks, since in fantasy we're used to elves being *the* supreme mages, but this is how it's written in WoW, so this is how things go.

Trolls are but a remnant. They're a long, long way from their glory days, so greatly diminished. They have regeneration, height and strength and da voodoo versus dwarves, who can probably match them in fortitude and tenacity but have, again, weapons arms and fortifications that are just better.

Belfs vs nelfs is a numbers game, there are far more nelfs than belfs, and nelfs have a connection with nature (druidic magic etc) to match the belf arcane might.

Forsaken vs werewolves is a matched fight, cruel unwavering tenacity and the plague vs Gilneans' resistance to undeath and raw primal rage.

Goblins vs Gnomes... who cares. Is a big bomb better than a big raygun? Maybe, maybe not.

In the end it is evenly match imo.

[Poshadin]

The average human is Azeroth is like a body building champion to us. Yes, they're still smaller than orcs on Average but it's not nearly as bad as the Warcraft Film depicts (Obviously they can't get a full cast of Arnold Schwarzenegger types)

If you were to take the scale of the two depicted in the MoP Cinematic (Which they're just nameless goons so "average") and apply it to real life, the smaller person can still win if they're better skilled.

[Grimo]

I agree with most of this, except for the last part: the Worgen are definitely more loyal to the Alliance than what the Forsaken are to the Horde, and their curse doesn't cloud and corrupt their mind the same way undeath does to the Forsaken. Genn Greymane is a good and caring king, just momentarily blinded by grief when he set forth to chase Sylvanas. And from his PoV it's fully understandable; the Forsaken led by Sylvanas destroyed his kingdom that posed no threat to them, massacred his people and murdered his son; and while Sylvanas' "betrayal" that led to Varian's death was not her fault, her goals and methods are otherwise far from good, moral and just (she's basically aiming to become the new Lich Queen), and she has to be stopped.

In the past, I would have agreed, but now Genn is going against Anduin's wishes for peace to focus on the Legion, which sort of brings back that old renegade spirit Greymane is famous for.

[-Joker-]

If you were to take the scale of the two depicted in the MoP Cinematic (Which they're just nameless goons so "average") and apply it to real life, the smaller person can still win if they're better skilled.

I still remember when Rey Mysterio beat the Big Show, and when my Gnome DK brought down Thrym when Wrath was current. Kited him all the way to K-3



So yeah, smaller can prevail.