Seriously, how is the alliance even still around?

[Elsif]

Lol

It's just a game, man

[dacoolist]

All jokes aside, and I'm not trolling, but the horde are just superior in every way for battle and combat - I honestly don't understand how the alliance is still around - bad story telling? cos there is only so many times you can use blind sheer luck.

Was just doing some Highmountain world quests, and those Highmountain Tauren are not peaceful types, they are really urge you to take out their enemies, and the language they use, fierce. Not to mention they are stronger than any race. The Orcs are bred for battle/war all their lives, how is anyone of the alliance races supposed to stand against that level of skill and dedication - the Troll societies are built on fighting, contending, vying for supremacy, not to mention they are really tall, and very agile/adept, and they don't hesistate to use curses and kill you on sight.. they sound far more aware than some of those alliance race - like night elves or humans.

I just feel that they write up humans, to come off as amazing, but humans have nothing extraordinary about them either. It's a similar thing with night elves, or rather the opposite, they sound like they have amazing attributes, but I haven't come across a group that seems more foolish or schoolboy errors than them. How does anyone not just step on a gnome and game over??!

Seriously though, everything alliance has is over matched and superceded by the horde. Race against race. Blood elves obliterate night elves, not once have I seen night elves win an encounter their, and its usually just a blood elf or two at that takes em all out so easily - seriously why haven't they just wiped them out if they supposedly hate them so much? Orcs and humans? Please tell me how humans stand a chance? I watched the movie, and the orcs were just so much better, stronger, more powerful it seemed unrealistic a skinny human could take one down all by himself, especially with the orcs able to move all that weight, how on earth does a human actually get to parry an orc.

Tauren and Draenei - peaceful to death? the two giant races, .. judging by the Yaungol and the Highmountain, and what we see of Tauren in cata quests, also no contest, if the orcs could genocide the draenei, I dont' think they'll be able to stand against a race that's even stronger than the orcs. And for all the engineering and skill craft the dwarves and gnomes can bring the Forsaken, Goblins and Blood elves are far better.

Goblin engineering is just way more deadlier than gnomish ones, and the goblins seem a lot more bent on using it, if they dont' scam you first, whereas nothing beats elven craftsmanship, and judging by the blood elf tools you see, the are fine and intricate in a way I can't see dwarves matching or night elves who's things seem very ordinary.

So we have more magic, more strength, more skill, more, ingenuity - look at how the horde races have survived even when they were down. Now they've recovered, theys houdl be able to wipe the alliance out, and I just see plot armor protecting the alliance.. that's it. Everything about the horde is superior. Blood elves have the nicest cities, Orcs are the best at fighting, Goblins the best at bombs, Tauren the strongest, Trolls the most agile and sinister. Forsaken the deadliest.. please tell me how the alliance is still standing?

To give you a short answer: To make people mad. I play Alliance right now because they are the underdog faction. When you team up with friends and roll a team of decent horde - you can tell they are shitting themselves because they normally roll alliance.. I played Horde when they were unpopular back in Classic/TBC/Wrath - and swap around to whatever faction needs the most help.

If you're talking about lore - I don't know what to tell you other than uhhhhh - if you deleted the Alliance - what the hell are you going to replace it with: Horde VS. Horde? I mean blizz has already pruned enough from the fucking game, people want more?

[Kithelle]

All jokes aside, and I'm not trolling, but the horde are just superior in every way for battle and combat - I honestly don't understand how the alliance is still around - bad story telling? cos there is only so many times you can use blind sheer luck.

Was just doing some Highmountain world quests, and those Highmountain Tauren are not peaceful types, they are really urge you to take out their enemies, and the language they use, fierce. Not to mention they are stronger than any race. The Orcs are bred for battle/war all their lives, how is anyone of the alliance races supposed to stand against that level of skill and dedication - the Troll societies are built on fighting, contending, vying for supremacy, not to mention they are really tall, and very agile/adept, and they don't hesistate to use curses and kill you on sight.. they sound far more aware than some of those alliance race - like night elves or humans.

I just feel that they write up humans, to come off as amazing, but humans have nothing extraordinary about them either. It's a similar thing with night elves, or rather the opposite, they sound like they have amazing attributes, but I haven't come across a group that seems more foolish or schoolboy errors than them. How does anyone not just step on a gnome and game over??!

Seriously though, everything alliance has is over matched and superceded by the horde. Race against race. Blood elves obliterate night elves, not once have I seen night elves win an encounter their, and its usually just a blood elf or two at that takes em all out so easily - seriously why haven't they just wiped them out if they supposedly hate them so much? Orcs and humans? Please tell me how humans stand a chance? I watched the movie, and the orcs were just so much better, stronger, more powerful it seemed unrealistic a skinny human could take one down all by himself, especially with the orcs able to move all that weight, how on earth does a human actually get to parry an orc.

Tauren and Draenei - peaceful to death? the two giant races, .. judging by the Yaungol and the Highmountain, and what we see of Tauren in cata quests, also no contest, if the orcs could genocide the draenei, I dont' think they'll be able to stand against a race that's even stronger than the orcs. And for all the engineering and skill craft the dwarves and gnomes can bring the Forsaken, Goblins and Blood elves are far better.

Goblin engineering is just way more deadlier than gnomish ones, and the goblins seem a lot more bent on using it, if they dont' scam you first, whereas nothing beats elven craftsmanship, and judging by the blood elf tools you see, the are fine and intricate in a way I can't see dwarves matching or night elves who's things seem very ordinary.

So we have more magic, more strength, more skill, more, ingenuity - look at how the horde races have survived even when they were down. Now they've recovered, theys houdl be able to wipe the alliance out, and I just see plot armor protecting the alliance.. that's it. Everything about the horde is superior. Blood elves have the nicest cities, Orcs are the best at fighting, Goblins the best at bombs, Tauren the strongest, Trolls the most agile and sinister. Forsaken the deadliest.. please tell me how the alliance is still standing?

You know what they say, "Ignorance is bliss"

[TheFirstOnes]

i can do that too!

Orcs: proud and noble race so strong they beat down demonic corruption, few other races can claim this.
Trolls: one of the oldest races with strong ties to demigods. managed to survive longer then nelfs without being blessed by dragons. lived through old god dominion.
Undead: one of the races most united in purpose, the only immortal race atm.
Tauren: Their pacifism should be respected, it takes balls to take that approach in azeroth, and it's not like they don't know they are an incredibly powerfull force if they were to form a real army.
Goblin: these guys get results fast if you motivate them. faster results then any other tech race if you pay enough, and not afraid to sacrifice to get it done.


compare that to:

Humans: so devided every single human kingdom through history has fallen. Dalaran and Stormwind are both rebuild after being destroyed.
Gnomes: so smart they nuked their own city and killed most of their race on their own.
Dwaves: Drunk gryphon touchers. also divided and still hasn't recovered from their big civil war. destroyed central eastern kingdoms.
Night Elves: so reckless they invited the legion in. used to be very racist. at least most of them learned their lesson after the world shattered.
Draenei: hold the galactic title for throwing others to the wolves while running with their tales tuck between their legs, because their gods says its okay.
Worgen: their voiceovers annoy me. also cowards for hiding etc.

So wrong:

Orcs- Able to defeat the demonic corruption, but unable to understand the meaning of "Intelligence".

Tauren- They're a druidic horde race, but they're pussies as well. Also, the only thing that's keeping them away from extinction is the fact that there's still grass on this world. Meh, give it a thousand years.

Undead- The most evil, and diabolical race on azeroth. Though, even though they MIGHT be immortal, they're losing their juice, and genn emptied that juice. Give em 20 years.

Goblins- They're tiny, pathetic, green, and greedy, MEET THE GOBLINS! AKA, the most unrelevent, and pathetic race on azeroth. Sure, they might make machinery, as well as oil, but ever since the cataclysm, not a single damn horde goblin has found any relevance...ever since. Give em 15 months.

Trolls- .....What are they again? Oh yah, an almost extinct race that lost their only important character, all because he looked behind em, instead of the front. Didn't take ya too fuckin long now did it vol'jin?! Give em 2 weeks.

Pandas: Neutral...so....they don't count.

Blood elves: They're foolish crack addicts, with an incomplete city, as well as stupid leaders. However, they have a good class. Give em 30k years.

However, here's the alliance:

Humans- They have the kirin-tor, they have one of the, if not, the biggest military on azeroth. Their last king (Varian) died like a fucking boss. They're intelligent. Oh, and their king is now a fucking badass. Give em a few billion years.

Dwarves- Short, but they create badass weapons, and they have the most fortified captial ever. Give em a million years.

Gnomes- FINALLY GOT A CINEMATIC, AS WELL AS RELEVANCE PEOPLE! Give em a few hundred years.

Night elves- They're hippies, but they atleast know the meaning of "Help", and..."Faction first". Also, illidan is the chosen one. Give em 50k years.

Draenei: Badasses that are ready to take on the legion at argus, they had the worst origin history ever, but now...THEY ARE READY BABY!
Give em 100 billion years.

Worgen- Savage peeps that had a very strong military, and still do today. Sure, they're vengeful, BUT ATLEAST THEY'RE GOOD! Give em a thousand years.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Orcs- Able to defeat the demonic corruption, but unable to understand the meaning of "Intelligence".

Orcs have outsmarted humans/ nelves etc. What does that make them?

Tauren- They're a druidic horde race, but they're pussies as well. Also, the only thing that's keeping them away from extinction is the fact that there's still grass on this world. Meh, give it a thousand years.

The average tauren is a walking tank, throw them in battle armor and they will destroy any Alliance foot forces.

Undead- The most evil, and diabolical race on azeroth. Though, even though they MIGHT be immortal, they're losing their juice, and genn emptied that juice. Give em 20 years.

WoG says they are immortal. Not even bothering to laugh at your predictions on years.

Goblins- They're tiny, pathetic, green, and greedy, MEET THE GOBLINS! AKA, the most unrelevent, and pathetic race on azeroth. Sure, they might make machinery, as well as oil, but ever since the cataclysm, not a single damn horde goblin has found any relevance...ever since. Give em 15 months.

And yet they rival the Gnomes in Machinery and intelligence.

Trolls- .....What are they again? Oh yah, an almost extinct race that lost their only important character, all because he looked behind em, instead of the front. Didn't take ya too fuckin long now did it vol'jin?! Give em 2 weeks.

The darkspear haven't been close to extinction since late wrath early cata. Trolls can shatter stone with their fists.


All I have to say to your time expectations is lol though.

[Deathquoi]

It's amazing that people like the OP get so fired up about fictional power exhibited by fictional characters in a fictional world. Go outside, dude.

[Kithelle]

Orcs have outsmarted humans/ nelves etc. What does that make them?



The average tauren is a walking tank, throw them in battle armor and they will destroy any Alliance foot forces.



WoG says they are immortal. Not even bothering to laugh at your predictions on years.



And yet they rival the Gnomes in Machinery and intelligence.



The darkspear haven't been close to extinction since late wrath early cata. Trolls can shatter stone with their fists.


All I have to say to your time expectations is lol though.

Just because they're immortal doesn't mean they can't be killed, Why do you think Sylvanas is running her vile crusade to control the Val'kyr to the point in teaming up with the queen of the underworld?

[Al Gorefiend]

If Blizz gave high elves to alliance you realize the Horde will lose 40% of their playerbase right OP? Such ferocious Horde, so strong.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Just because they're immortal doesn't mean they can't be killed, Why do you think Sylvanas is running her vile crusade to control the Val'kyr to the point in teaming up with the queen of the underworld?

Because the Queen of the underworld was offering Val'kyr in return for revenge on Odyn for murdering her in the first place.

[dope_danny]

Because every horde race beyond Goblins is in decline numbers wise and they are on their 4th warchief in a few years including one that turned on them and had their capital sacked completely. Look at the state of the horde: if they arent the zandalari but the many tribal leftovers from an ancient world spanning empire trolls are technically post apocalyptic left overs long after a societal collapse that in the horde have lost most of their leaders, undead cannot procreate, tauren always had troubles that the cataclysm made far worse and the blood elves are a small percentage of the small percentage of high elves that survived the events of warcraft 3 and orcs are in the weakest position they have been since the founding of durotar.

Compared to the alliance: with the combination of dreanei, gnome and dwarf engineers their technology is advancing at a much more advanced rate. Night Elves have all their leadership back and working together for the first time in a long time and they are basically evolved trolls with better skills in everything but warlock magic. Dwarfs are unified and stronger and more stable than they have ever been. Worgen are in smaller numbers but are canonically the strongest fighters of all the races on azeroth in worgen form and have a real incentive to actively attack the horde at any excuse after what sylvanas did to Gilneas. The Dreanei have restored the damage of the Exodar crash and can hold their own against any horde race and their numbers are growing not declining. Then you have Humans that just lost their king but he hasnt been replaced by someone inexperienced with war at this point and plenty of horde leaders actually know and respect him and humans have the magical superiority over all races because they can learn in a month what an elven mage takes years to learn, its a point behind why they were reluctant to teach them back in the day simply because humans ability to master magic so easily makes them extremely threatening to elves.

You have pandaren on both sides but even after losing a few heros in the last couple of expansions the alliance as a whole has only improved their situation post warcraft 3 where the horde just seems to have made better war machines at the expense of literally everything else. Its not exactly a level playing field if you dont take player numbers into account with the fiction.

[Kithelle]

Because the Queen of the underworld was offering Val'kyr in return for revenge on Odyn for murdering her in the first place.

SO the war between Odyn and her justifies Sylvanas enslaving a entire race for her own selfish wants?

[FelPlague]

Most underrated comment ever! To the top with you!

nice picture of keemstar

- - - Updated - - -

Orcs have outsmarted humans/ nelves etc. What does that make them?



The average tauren is a walking tank, throw them in battle armor and they will destroy any Alliance foot forces.



WoG says they are immortal. Not even bothering to laugh at your predictions on years.



And yet they rival the Gnomes in Machinery and intelligence.



The darkspear haven't been close to extinction since late wrath early cata. Trolls can shatter stone with their fists.


All I have to say to your time expectations is lol though.

immortal in warcraft terms means they cant die from aging... they can still be killed... the night elves were immortal from the sundering until the 2nd war.... and PLENTY died in that time... look at warcraft 2

- - - Updated - - -

The average human is Azeroth is like a body building champion to us. Yes, they're still smaller than orcs on Average but it's not nearly as bad as the Warcraft Film depicts (Obviously they can't get a full cast of Arnold Schwarzenegger types)

If you were to take the scale of the two depicted in the MoP Cinematic (Which they're just nameless goons so "average") and apply it to real life, the smaller person can still win if they're better skilled.

^^^^ as you even see in the cinematic itself, they are pretty close, when in first sight you think the orc would easily win, but his brute nature, versus the humans keen wit, allows it to be a very even match

[Vesperam]

Horde has more spikes, we win!

[Levifer]

nice picture of keemstar

Excuse me?

[Kul Tiras]

horde live in filth and squallor, they wipe their asses with their hands and shit on their own roads, alliance live in pristine halls of marble and crystal and steel

civilization wins

[Evilfish]

The Alliance prevails through the power of friendship and tolerance. It takes a lot of kindness to accept gnomes as a faction instead of cheap labor.

[CaptainV]

All jokes aside, and I'm not trolling, but the horde are just superior in every way for battle and combat - I honestly don't understand how the alliance is still around - bad story telling? cos there is only so many times you can use blind sheer luck.

This is already starting to sound like a troll bait, but ill bite.

Was just doing some Highmountain world quests, and those Highmountain Tauren are not peaceful types, they are really urge you to take out their enemies, and the language they use, fierce. Not to mention they are stronger than any race. The Orcs are bred for battle/war all their lives, how is anyone of the alliance races supposed to stand against that level of skill and dedication - the Troll societies are built on fighting, contending, vying for supremacy, not to mention they are really tall, and very agile/adept, and they don't hesistate to use curses and kill you on sight.. they sound far more aware than some of those alliance race - like night elves or humans.

Highmountain Tauren are "not" Shu'halo tauren and thus neutral to the Horde. The Orcs got their asses handed to them both in a civil war and during the Iron Horde civil war which only further worsened their predicament. Troll society has lost more wars than it can possibly win, their ancient civilisations got royally destroyed by the Night Elves who then made negociations with them to a truce because they regarded them as little more than an annoyance. Humans literally roasted Orc Kind after the Dark Horde sacked Stormwind, the Orcs got destroyed during WC2 after an honor duel they assumed would mean humanity giving up resulted in humanity going apeshit. Also, the Trolls got their asses kicked royally by Human's during the ancient Troll Wars.

I just feel that they write up humans, to come off as amazing, but humans have nothing extraordinary about them either. It's a similar thing with night elves, or rather the opposite, they sound like they have amazing attributes, but I haven't come across a group that seems more foolish or schoolboy errors than them. How does anyone not just step on a gnome and game over??!

Gnomes are literally inventors that get pissy when someone else does better than them. They're listed as a race that does not give up under any pressure and often works to outdo the most powerful of opponents. They have mech suits, spider tanks, machine weapons to fight for them, they can break a taurens skull with half of these machines.

Seriously though, everything alliance has is over matched and superceded by the horde. Race against race. Blood elves obliterate night elves, not once have I seen night elves win an encounter their, and its usually just a blood elf or two at that takes em all out so easily - seriously why haven't they just wiped them out if they supposedly hate them so much? Orcs and humans? Please tell me how humans stand a chance? I watched the movie, and the orcs were just so much better, stronger, more powerful it seemed unrealistic a skinny human could take one down all by himself, especially with the orcs able to move all that weight, how on earth does a human actually get to parry an orc.

Blood Elves literally had a civil war with themselves over fel addiction, they're near enough a dying race while the Night Elves while having taken quite a few hits from Garrosh during Cataclysm have survived strong. Orcs -are- stronger, but most Orcs aernt Saurfang, Grom or have the brains to see past their own brute force. This means Humans can appriciate being physically weaker and usually outplay the Orcs with superiour strategy.

Tauren and Draenei - peaceful to death? the two giant races, .. judging by the Yaungol and the Highmountain, and what we see of Tauren in cata quests, also no contest, if the orcs could genocide the draenei, I dont' think they'll be able to stand against a race that's even stronger than the orcs. And for all the engineering and skill craft the dwarves and gnomes can bring the Forsaken, Goblins and Blood elves are far better.

Draenei have literally got weapons of war designed to destroy armies of demons, the Forsaken would be annhilated by their crystal towers designed to fire powerful blasts of light. The gnomes and dwarves are able to create far more stable and secure technology than the unreliably makeshift craft of Goblins and the Blood Elves machines tend to be powered by questionable means prone to turning against them.

Tauren are also significantly smaller in population to the Draenei when combining both AU Draenor and MU Outland/Azeroth's over all popualtion making them inferior as a race. The Yaungol also have no unity with the Shu'halo and neither do the Highmountain making the Horde Tauren significantly small as a species.

Goblin engineering is just way more deadlier than gnomish ones, and the goblins seem a lot more bent on using it, if they dont' scam you first, whereas nothing beats elven craftsmanship, and judging by the blood elf tools you see, the are fine and intricate in a way I can't see dwarves matching or night elves who's things seem very ordinary.

Goblin Engineering is prone to exploding in ones face, literally, its more powerful, and more dangerous, making it a double edged sword. Blood Elf technology, when built is usually made with powerful mana expendature which tends to make it unstable too, thus again, suffering the same unreliable problem. Dwarven tech is forged sturdy and solid, with time taken being its only drawback, while Night Elves evidenced by Suremar are "hardly" inept at technological marvels.

So we have more magic, more strength, more skill, more, ingenuity - look at how the horde races have survived even when they were down. Now they've recovered, theys houdl be able to wipe the alliance out, and I just see plot armor protecting the alliance.. that's it. Everything about the horde is superior. Blood elves have the nicest cities, Orcs are the best at fighting, Goblins the best at bombs, Tauren the strongest, Trolls the most agile and sinister. Forsaken the deadliest.. please tell me how the alliance is still standing?

Mate its exactly the opposite, the Horde lost the war it started during Catacylsm when they had a civil war which invited the Alliance into their city. They admitted they needed the Alliance to win, the Alliance did -not- need the Horde it just make things easier for them.

At one point the Forsaken "might" have been the only real military power left in the Horde given that the Orcs had a civil war that devastated their population in the lore. The Darkspear trolls chose by volition to turn against the Zandalari, making them a -tiny- portion of the Troll race and the Shu'halo Tauren aka: Horde Tauren are -not- aligned with Yaungol or Highmountain or Taunka, making them independant and thus a minority again. The Goblins, are only loyal to coin if anything and have no real qualm betraying the Horde. The Blood Elves were ABOUT to join the Alliance if it wasnt for a momentary psycho-jaina ruining that.

Now that the Forsaken have LOST their one means to immortality in Stormhiem, they are -basically- screwed.

The Horde if anything, is completley screwed, the actions of Garrosh during Cataclysm forced the Alliance races to band together into a formidable and solid unity under one High King. It allowed them to create a solid and democratic military power that now dwarfs the individual Horde races combined.

Its listed in lore that the Alliance currently has a -massive- military advantage over the all but crippled Horde. The venture into AU Draenor gave the Horde -some- Orc reinforcements but nowhere -near- enough to equalise the current military strength of the Alliance.

At this point, the only way the Horde could ever be on par, was for all the Tauren tribes to unite under Baine, for the Zandalari to join the Horde and for the Forsaken to somehow make a breakthrough and conquer most of Lordaeron.

Also, for Gallywix to somehow take over the Steamwheedle and make the neutral Goblins of the Cartel join the Horde.

Otherwise?

No, the Horde is completley outnumbered, outgunned, and outmatched.

Its literally on its death-cry.

[FelPlague]

Excuse me?

its a joke, guess you dont know about the keem

[CParker1987]

Why does this all even matter since its no longer Horde vs Alliance?

[Tyrion Moonblade]

Because the Alliance is better, in every way, than the Horde. More powerful militarily (refugee races to begin with that went and devastated their own military in a civil war), more powerful economically (which leads to more and better quality weapons), more powerful and unified spiritually (the Naaru ARE the light the humans and dwarves worship, Elune is functionally identical and may be a titan, who MADE the Naaru).

Flip the question around. Why isn't the Horde dead yet? Because the Alliance has allowed it (and because if the Alliance behaved logically there'd have been no orcs in any game after WCII).

During Classic and BC, the Alliance turned the other cheek in the face of ridiculous Horde aggression. Every brushfire war(read: battleground) was due to Horde aggression Alliance quests were about investigating horde aggression (never retaliating). The Horde were developing BIOLOGICAL WMDS and this was ignored.

During Wrath, Garrosh was taking his expeditionary force that was intended to combat the scourge and directing it at Alliance forces, in particular a craven, cowardly attack on the rear of Alliance forces already engaged with the scourge. This was for all intents and purposes also ignored. Let's not forget the Wrathgate, where the Horde's WMD plans went off a little too early and by a splinter faction. Not ignored, but of course Jaina was still a peacenik at the time and stopped the justified war from happening.

During Cata Thrall gives the reins over to Garrosh (who did SO WELL in Northrend....) who immediately takes advantage of the fact the superpower that is the Alliance let his faction fester and grow like an infected wound on the ass of Azeroth and starts a world war..... only to get his ass kicked. Ashenvale, offensive stopped cold. Stonetalon, used a WMD then stopped their own invasion after it stalled. Swamp of Sorrows, invasion butchered, Stonard burned to the ground. Gilneas, offensive stopped even after Forsaken use WMDs, Gilneas stays Gilnean after it's retaken by the 7th. The only solid victory they had was when they dropped a nuke on Theramore like the desperate, craven pieces of **** they are.

During Pandaland Garrosh overextends his beleaguered forces in yet another ill conceived invasion, turns most of his faction against him and shatters the Horde military in a civil war. BTW needs to rely on more supernatural drugs to even stand half a chance, just like daddy Grom and the demon blood.

During WoD the horde limp through the whole thing, contributing token forces and relying almost entirely on local Frostwolf troops, in addition to yet again starting a fight with the Alliance. If you haven't, walk through Stormshield and Warspear, compare the dialogue. (spoilers, it's alliance soldiers saying "why are we fighting the horde? don't we have a treaty" and horde savages going "HURR DURR KILL ALLIENC DURR")

Now during Legion the already crippled Horde military is handed an embarrassing defeat (they routed completely facing equal demons to the Alliance who held firm) and Sylvanas, representing the horde as a whole since she is now warchief, puts the defeat of the legion on a back burner and attacks a prospective ally in order to prolong her own undead abomination of a life indefinitely. Finally there's some Alliance aggression, but it comes only at the hands of Gilneas, who's king is not only reeling from the loss of a good friend and king due to Sylvanas' actions but propelled to action primarily by the rage of his curse (this insight is provided by no less than his own daughter).

TL;DR

I was bored and decided to write a dissertation on how wrong OP was. Horde has always been the underdog, always existed at the grace of greater powers, and just because 1v1 an orc or tauren is more likely to beat a human doesn't mean dick when it comes to nations. lololol