Warlocks in mythic+ post buff

[Twilightcrescent]

Flat out, you do not have time to change talents in the middle of a mythic+ dungeon. Build a team that is balanced. Get someone who does easy big burst AOE, then you don't have to. Warlocks can spec one way or another but we probably do the best cleave when specced more for single target. Flip-flopping talents mid-dungeon is a waste of time and resources. For me, maximizing my cleave seems to be the most valuable set-up for most dungeons because I can just burn through a pair of adds and get us to a boss that much faster. Plus I know my dps isn't going to suffer too much on Single Target bosses because I didn't invest in FnB or Cataclysm.

[Jondar]

Because I'd rather not wipe on things like a fortified scorpion at end of nelths lair because my group didn't have enough single target when the aoe pulls in that instance are a joke.

I'd rather not wipe to a tyrannical hymdall because we all wanted to Aoe the packs after hymdall.

I'd have heavy aoe focus on bolstering in black rook hold, because aoe packs are more likely to wipe you than anything else in there.

If I have two spriests in my group I'm much more likely to go full aoe than if I have two BM hunters.

How many more examples would you like me to provide?. You may call it over thinking, but to me it's just thinking.

But like.. if any of that happens.. it has nothing to do with you choosing a versatile talent build? It's over thinking because in literally 0 of the things you listed will the talents I recommended take away from your capability of handling those situations. And simply casting the right spells will be all the adjustments you need to adapt to those situations, not going in with different talents to prepare for them.

> That build still provides great, sustained ST.
> It provides better sustained AoE than Cataclysm, which only does good numbers at the start of the pull.
> It isn't a heavy AoE or ST emphasis; it's a good mix of both.. meaning it works (and works well) with every group

I'd call it overthinking because it is overthinking.

[clavarnway]

The only utility warlocks can bring is their summoning stone and very rarely demonic gateway. But in mythic+ you can't benefit from those add to this very low damage output of warlock who has taken aoe talents and you will see reason people don't want warlocks in their groups.

Battle rez's are currently b0rked, but they've acknowledged that and eventually it will be fixed. Demonic Gateway on the other hand is quite useful in many mythics.

[Turturin the Warlock]

@Jondar Whatever you say, friend.

[Jondar]

Logs are updating from tonight's raid

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...1624749/latest

all 98+ so far. Nyth hasn't uploaded yet because live log wasn't turned on, but I think I'm 99+ there as well.

Also, broke a million AoE DPS on trash!!! First time I've done that as a lock/seen a lock do it in EN!

[Deleted]

For mythic+, jf your group can pull 5-6 mobs per pull (situational according to which dungeon you doing) then implosion hits like a truck. Did lfr and pulled tons on trash and my implosion hit for 20million with 17 imps out at the time of hitting that lovely button. Was quite stunned lol so much fun but doesnt come round too often unless big pulls inc.

[TKSaga]

Logs are updating from tonight's raid



all 98+ so far. Nyth hasn't uploaded yet because live log wasn't turned on, but I think I'm 99+ there as well.

Also, broke a million AoE DPS on trash!!! First time I've done that as a lock/seen a lock do it in EN!

Hey! Thats awesome.
Looking at your logs, specifically Xavius: Did you cast immolate on all 11 tentacles in the last phase and then just havoc one of them and DPS the boss until he was dead? I assume you didn't reapply the immolate after your initial 11 casts on the tentacles.


Edit: Second time looking at it, it looks like you cast immolate twice on 4 different tentacles. Is it right to assume its because you switched havoc targets after each of those 4 tentacles died; and it was reapplied because you immolated Xavius each time on those reapplications?

Edit#2: What was your AoE rotation? Thats impressive numbers for trash as a lock without being specifically spec'd into AoE talents. What were your talents?

[ThePhantombox]

Banish not being bolstered is actually pretty good.
Affliction has an interrupt but destro doesn't unless you use felhunter but then you give up grimoire of sac.
Destro/affl have one stun, and it's a DPS loss to cast it unlike monk/dh's.
Enslave demon is very situational.
Soulstone has a cast time.
Healthstones are just free HP pots.
Warlock utility is subpar still.

Affliction has one stun (infernal)
Destro has two (infernal, shadowfury)
Demo has three (infernal, shadowfury, axe toss)

And yes, I WILL drop infernal on trash because the goal of mythic dungeons is to complete them under the timer, and it's often trash that needs to be chain cc'ed and killed efficiently. Unlike raids where I'll pad my meters all I want, I'm running with a small, targeted group for mythics, and I'll gladly sacrifice boss dps for actually completing the damn dungeon.

And sure, we don't have an interrupt, we still have a stun for stopping most casts, and spec service or use a felhunter if you need one that badly, you can't dps whore and go full serious mode at the same time.

Enslave demon can be used on mobs in Black rook, Court, Arcway, Violet hold, and Vault of the Wardens. That's exactly half of the dungeons in the game. It's an effective instant kill on tougher mobs, and usually serves a a dps increase, especially for demo (since I know you love dps so much). The mobs also have ridiculous hp, which makes dark pact just stupid. I enslaved one of the wrathguards in BRH, and I was able to dark pact myself for a 12 million hp absorb. Seriously, I could double soak charge on smashspite with that shit, and it's a one minute cooldown.

>Soulstone has a cast time
See my comment on infernal "muh dps loss."
Oh yeah, and if it makes you happy, there's rumors that in 7.1 soulstone will be instant on dead targets.

Healthstones heal based on your max hp, pots don't. We have a warrior tank who prefers them because he can use them with last stand and heal for half his health bar. And they're free.

I'm not arguing we're the kings of utility, but to tap into dnd here, if we were going on a tier system, 1 being best and 5 being worst, we're high end tier 2.

On four targets at ilvl 791 and no 3rd relic FnB adds 15 DPS to my 220 DPS (4 targets) for me. Seems bad.

"I speced FnB and hit the aoe training dummies for a minute and it didn't work"

And 791? Seven ninety one?! No fucking shit your dps is low genius.

[Jondar]

Hey! Thats awesome.
Looking at your logs, specifically Xavius: Did you cast immolate on all 11 tentacles in the last phase and then just havoc one of them and DPS the boss until he was dead? I assume you didn't reapply the immolate after your initial 11 casts on the tentacles.


Edit: Second time looking at it, it looks like you cast immolate twice on 4 different tentacles. Is it right to assume its because you switched havoc targets after each of those 4 tentacles died; and it was reapplied because you immolated Xavius each time on those reapplications?

Wish I had an answer :P . In that phase I'm tab-targeting trying to keep immolate on a good enough amount of tentacles for shards and hopefully keeping havoc up somewhere (havoc is bound to a mouseover so it's likely my mouse hovers over tentacles accidentaly). I'm still not that comfortable in that phase (second time there) so a lot of it is just "PUSH THE BUTTONS AS HARD AS YOU CAN" mode.

[Deleted]

Aren't Healthstones always a fixed healing? I thought they were like 440k, wen pots did 480k

[Jondar]

Isn't Healthstones always a fixes healing? I thought they were like 440k, when pots did 480k

iirc Healthstones heal a % now.

[ThePhantombox]

Aren't Healthstones always a fixed healing? I thought they were like 440k, wen pots did 480k

22% of user's max hp.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Affliction has one stun (infernal)
Destro has two (infernal, shadowfury)
Demo has three (infernal, shadowfury, axe toss)

And yes, I WILL drop infernal on trash because the goal of mythic dungeons is to complete them under the timer, and it's often trash that needs to be chain cc'ed and killed efficiently. Unlike raids where I'll pad my meters all I want, I'm running with a small, targeted group for mythics, and I'll gladly sacrifice boss dps for actually completing the damn dungeon.

And sure, we don't have an interrupt, we still have a stun for stopping most casts, and spec service or use a felhunter if you need one that badly, you can't dps whore and go full serious mode at the same time.

Enslave demon can be used on mobs in Black rook, Court, Arcway, Violet hold, and Vault of the Wardens. That's exactly half of the dungeons in the game. It's an effective instant kill on tougher mobs, and usually serves a a dps increase, especially for demo (since I know you love dps so much). The mobs also have ridiculous hp, which makes dark pact just stupid. I enslaved one of the wrathguards in BRH, and I was able to dark pact myself for a 12 million hp absorb. Seriously, I could double soak charge on smashspite with that shit, and it's a one minute cooldown.

>Soulstone has a cast time
See my comment on infernal "muh dps loss."
Oh yeah, and if it makes you happy, there's rumors that in 7.1 soulstone will be instant on dead targets.

Healthstones heal based on your max hp, pots don't. We have a warrior tank who prefers them because he can use them with last stand and heal for half his health bar. And they're free.

I'm not arguing we're the kings of utility, but to tap into dnd here, if we were going on a tier system, 1 being best and 5 being worst, we're high end tier 2.




"I speced FnB and hit the aoe training dummies for a minute and it didn't work"

And 791? Seven ninety one?! No fucking shit your dps is low genius.

Infernal is 3 minute cooldown and means you aren't taking your best AOE talent in that tier and is a TWO SECOND STUN. Leg sweep is 45 seconds and lasts over 2x as long.
Enslave demon doesn't kill anything? It simply enslaves it and you have to keep it with you the entire run or kill it. You also might have to pull more mobs to finish the mob killed bar thing to finish the dungeon if you enslave something.
I mean, if you want to pretend that warlock is good and worth inviting, that's fine. But it's wrong.
I'll continue to never invite warlocks when DH/WW monk/outlaws/UH DKS can do upwards of 800k-1.3m AOE DPS and provide much better utility.
Yes, my lock is sitting at 110 getting artifact knowledge incase I ever want to play it in the future because that's the most efficient way to have an alt you don't want to play right now.(at 110, researching knowledge). I tested FnB on 4 enemies and the DPS increase was an extremely minor percent comparative to the my normal DPS. The talent is bad.

[Scathbais]

Enslave demon can be used on mobs in Black rook, Court, Arcway, Violet hold, and Vault of the Wardens. That's exactly half of the dungeons in the game. It's an effective instant kill on tougher mobs, and usually serves a a dps increase, especially for demo (since I know you love dps so much). The mobs also have ridiculous hp, which makes dark pact just stupid. I enslaved one of the wrathguards in BRH, and I was able to dark pact myself for a 12 million hp absorb. Seriously, I could double soak charge on smashspite with that shit, and it's a one minute cooldown.

Quick question: What Grimoire are you using when you are using Enslave Demon?

[ThePhantombox]

Infernal is 3 minute cooldown and means you aren't taking your best AOE talent in that tier and is a TWO SECOND STUN. Leg sweep is 45 seconds and lasts over 2x as long.

What are you talking about? What talent? I hope you're not talking about supremacy, because that talent is worst in the tier for all three specs. And I don't give a shit what the cooldown is, it's there to be used, a short stun and high aoe damage. If you want a better aoe stun take shadowfury, lasts almost as long as leg sweep and has a shorter cooldown.

Enslave demon doesn't kill anything? It simply enslaves it and you have to keep it with you the entire run or kill it. You also might have to pull more mobs to finish the mob killed bar thing to finish the dungeon if you enslave something.

This is some DSP shit, use your goddamn brain, you take a tough mob out of the fight, potentially the whole dungeon, and if you ever need to kill it you just release the damn thing and your group can kill it alone and away from any dangerous mobs, so it falls over in about two seconds.

I mean, if you want to pretend that warlock is good and worth inviting, that's fine. But it's wrong.

"I'm right and you're wrong because I said so."

I'll continue to never invite warlocks when DH/WW monk/outlaws/UH DKS can do upwards of 800k-1.3m AOE DPS and provide much better utility.

What the fuck? I've seen those numbers in heroic and mythic+0 when you can just mass pull shit but who fucking pulls 800k on four/five mobs? Not those classes. (Oh and btw, spiking up to that number in the first half second of the pull doesn't count, dps is an abstraction from a whole encounter).

I tested FnB on 4 enemies and the DPS increase was an extremely minor percent comparative to the my normal DPS. The talent is bad.

Why do shitty players think dps is so simple? How about you, (crazy idea incoming) actually take the talent into dungeons (heroic since I know mythic is haaard) and mess around using it in different situations and with different talents. Maybe you'd notice the talent has a pretty sold niche in aoe when combined with sac. You can't master a spec by hitting target dummies.

Yes, my lock is sitting at 110 getting artifact knowledge incase I ever want to play it in the future because that's the most efficient way to have an alt you don't want to play right now.(at 110, researching knowledge).

But here's the fucking kicker for me. You don't even play lock, why in the FUCK are you here trying to tell people how to play and what's good/bad when it's obvious that you A. don't know shit, and B. haven't even made an effort to try and learn your shit.

"Oh, I've spent all of two hours and done like a single heroic on my lock but I know more about the class than you do." You're a walking joke at this point, there's no reason for anyone to take you seriously, and I sincerely hope no one who's actually looking for help or information has to read your garbage.

Though i get that at this point it's probably all about attention for you, so here, hope I made your day.

- - - Updated - - -

Quick question: What Grimoire are you using when you are using Enslave Demon?

I play demo so I'm running synergy, keep in mind if you have something enslaved you can't benefit from supremacy, and lose the buff from sac.

[Gnomognomo]

I play demo so I'm running synergy, keep in mind if you have something enslaved you can't benefit from supremacy, and lose the buff from sac.

Would someone recommend to slave demon running as destro with sacrifice or service? So losing your imp dmg? I hacent tried in mythic +, but on normal mythic i feel like i was losing dps.
If it depends of the demon that you're gettibg, with which demons are worth (have anyone tested it?)?

[Scathbais]

I play demo so I'm running synergy, keep in mind if you have something enslaved you can't benefit from supremacy, and lose the buff from sac.

OK thanks, makes sense for demo. had no idea synergy worked with an enslaved mob. Great to know!

[ThePhantombox]

Would someone recommend to slave demon running as destro with sacrifice or service? So losing your imp dmg? I hacent tried in mythic +, but on normal mythic i feel like i was losing dps.
If it depends of the demon that you're gettibg, with which demons are worth (have anyone tested it?)?

It really depends, something important to know is that if you are demo, empowerment actually works on the enslaved demons, so I had wrathguards in BRH hitting for over 100k with normal melee attacks. Also their huge hp pools make dark pact really powerful, but for raw dps as destruction, it's probably not worth it to bring for bosses. Although I'm really not sure, I've done like three runs as destro.

- - - Updated - - -

OK thanks, makes sense for demo. had no idea synergy worked with an enslaved mob. Great to know!

^ As I said with pact.