Is it just me or are brewmasters really weak atm?

[Saberstrike]

Long-time tank here, maining a DK in legion; Recently got around to leveling a monk, after trying bear and demon hunter tanks, and I gotta say... WTF is this class? I don't -hate- the playstyle changes -- in fact I think it's my #2 favourite tank so far as far as gameplay goes, but why in the name of all that is holy does it require so, so, so much more healing?

Am I doing something wrong? I've noticed that brewmaster takes no burst damage at all (which is a huge upside), but since said burst damage is staggered out via... stagger, in the long run it requires more healing than the other tanks, thus being a bigger strain on the healer(s). It has lowest armor of all the tanks, and the least survival tools, so while I like the smoothness of how it plays, I gotta ask:

Is there a secret way to not take so much damage overall? Maybe a build / a stat priority / a gameplay tip on how to shuffle my brews? I tried various talent setups and so far chi burst / gift of the mists / rjw / high tolerance seems to be the most optimal for heroics, though I still do feel like a DK is just better in every way, in a practical sense.

Is it just me?

[Super Kami Dende]

I went BrM last night to test it out.

It is not the spec I remember or loved from previous expacs. feels like outside of using brews the entire gameplay is just spamming Tp and Keg smash to reduce the brew CD with breath and BoS as filler damage that does nothing. Felt extremely boring.

[Thra]

Ffeels like outside of using brews the entire gameplay is just spamming Tp and Keg smash to reduce the brew CD with breath and BoS as filler damage that does nothing.

This is a very simplified overview, but yes this is it. Talents change this however, Blackout Combo puts a lot more fun on Blackout Strike.

It's viable, has a reasonable skill ceiling and is no longer the 'just push guard and win spec' that it used to be.

[sdre]

Long-time tank here, maining a DK in legion; Recently got around to leveling a monk, after trying bear and demon hunter tanks, and I gotta say... WTF is this class? I don't -hate- the playstyle changes -- in fact I think it's my #2 favourite tank so far as far as gameplay goes, but why in the name of all that is holy does it require so, so, so much more healing?

Am I doing something wrong? I've noticed that brewmaster takes no burst damage at all (which is a huge upside), but since said burst damage is staggered out via... stagger, in the long run it requires more healing than the other tanks, thus being a bigger strain on the healer(s). It has lowest armor of all the tanks, and the least survival tools, so while I like the smoothness of how it plays, I gotta ask:

Is there a secret way to not take so much damage overall? Maybe a build / a stat priority / a gameplay tip on how to shuffle my brews? I tried various talent setups and so far chi burst / gift of the mists / rjw / high tolerance seems to be the most optimal for heroics, though I still do feel like a DK is just better in every way, in a practical sense.

Is it just me?

I think if you looked through the sticky, you will see some viable "builds" stat priority.

What's your ilevel now? I'm at 851, with 18% haste, 30% mastery, 9% versa and I can do mythics + 4 +5 comfortably. Mythics normal are a joke now. With some good gearing, and proper balance of stats (30% haste gibes your other stats too much i feel), brews are really fun to play.

I use HT/ED (HT for just smoothing of dmg, while ED has huge purifies which is really nice for content that hits harder). I use BoB because i like to keep ISB almost 100% and still have 2 charges for purify.

The gameplay of brew keeps me on the edge at times, and to have control over your dmg is nice (Fortifying, I have the neth lair trinket mythic titanforged along with the bubble one from EOA as well) these trinkets help a fair bit.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...an/Daet/simple

[Deleted]

The loggs kinda tells alot about the brewmaster atm. They take the most damage and does the least damage of the tanks atm.

[Super Kami Dende]

This is a very simplified overview, but yes this is it. Talents change this however, Blackout Combo puts a lot more fun on Blackout Strike.

It's viable, has a reasonable skill ceiling and is no longer the 'just push guard and win spec' that it used to be.

Yeah my issue wasn't that it wasn't viable, it just felt very placid compared to how it used to be. Also I very much don't think it was a "push Guard and win spec" in any situation that wasn't completely outgeared anyway.

[Grimo]

I don't feel like a beer-slinging drunken master anymore. Class fantasy is out the window. More than that, I am squishy as shit, unless I have an amazing healer. I did 2 dungeons as brew and rerolled vengeance. Sadly, Veng feels more like the mobile, crazy brewmaster of old than the new one does.

[PizzaSHARK]

Long-time tank here, maining a DK in legion; Recently got around to leveling a monk, after trying bear and demon hunter tanks, and I gotta say... WTF is this class? I don't -hate- the playstyle changes -- in fact I think it's my #2 favourite tank so far as far as gameplay goes, but why in the name of all that is holy does it require so, so, so much more healing?

Am I doing something wrong? I've noticed that brewmaster takes no burst damage at all (which is a huge upside), but since said burst damage is staggered out via... stagger, in the long run it requires more healing than the other tanks, thus being a bigger strain on the healer(s). It has lowest armor of all the tanks, and the least survival tools, so while I like the smoothness of how it plays, I gotta ask:

Is there a secret way to not take so much damage overall? Maybe a build / a stat priority / a gameplay tip on how to shuffle my brews? I tried various talent setups and so far chi burst / gift of the mists / rjw / high tolerance seems to be the most optimal for heroics, though I still do feel like a DK is just better in every way, in a practical sense.

Is it just me?

No, I think it's just the class. I've had similar experiences with mine. I don't consider them taking more total damage to be a problem, because that damage is, uh, staggered. While BM's need more total healing (they'd be OP as fuck if they didn't), because it's so predictable and manageable, healers can afford to use their more efficient heals on them rather than having to spam Flash Heal to get them back up to healthy levels or blow cooldowns. Proper use of your brews is also super important. Always keep at least one charge in reserve for Purifying Brew. If you're fighting something that's going to hit hard anyway, you might want to only use one charge for Ironskin and then Purify twice. I've also been a huge fan of Black Ox Brew for the insane damage-dumping potential it grants, and it also has its cooldown reduced by Tiger Palm and Keg Smash.

My problem isn't so much that the class is "weak", it's that it has some very annoying QoL issues that Blizzard probably won't ever fix because... well, they're Blizzard, and fixing things is apparently very difficult.

I actually find them very fun to play, but I agree that their DPS is rather weak (especially compared to Warriors just spamming Revenge), and they can find themselves in awkward positions. They desperately need to give BM's Dizzying Haze back, or some kind of pbAOE because both Breathe Fire (long cd) and Keg Smash require the BM to be facing the target.

You can summon Dave, but that's a talent and I'm ardently against the idea that any class should require a talent to shore up a baseline weakness. It also means you can't take Leg Sweep.

BM's also lack an effective long-range pulling tool. Palpatine Lightning requires you to stand still and channel, doesn't deal damage until one full tick has completed, and apparently doesn't generate additional threat, so getting snap aggro on single adds that are more than 20yd away is damned near impossible without throwing Dave at them.

I've invested enough time into my Monk that I'm not interested in rerolling, but... man, there are so many small QoL fixes they need that shouldn't take much time. I really wish there was some way of getting Blizzard to actually listen.

I mean, if they don't want to give us Dizzying Haze back for some reason, just give Brewmasters access to Spinning Crane Kick. It's silly when a damn healer has better AOE than a tank does.

[Xequecal]

BrM honestly feels like godnode against physical damage but really weak against elemental. On Ursoc and Cenarius, I felt unkillable while my Druid cotank died a lot. On Xavius, it was the opposite and I was struggling to survive while the Druid never died.

[Saberstrike]

I think if you looked through the sticky, you will see some viable "builds" stat priority.

What's your ilevel now? I'm at 851, with 18% haste, 30% mastery, 9% versa and I can do mythics + 4 +5 comfortably. Mythics normal are a joke now. With some good gearing, and proper balance of stats (30% haste gibes your other stats too much i feel), brews are really fun to play.

I use HT/ED (HT for just smoothing of dmg, while ED has huge purifies which is really nice for content that hits harder). I use BoB because i like to keep ISB almost 100% and still have 2 charges for purify.

The gameplay of brew keeps me on the edge at times, and to have control over your dmg is nice (Fortifying, I have the neth lair trinket mythic titanforged along with the bubble one from EOA as well) these trinkets help a fair bit.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...an/Daet/simple

I'm at about 823, mostly talking from the perspective of talking 5-mans and in perspective mythics; I don't think I'd really play brew beyond mythic regular though as it appears logs and people agree that it's really awkward compared to my other tanks.

It's true that it allows healers to be a little more relaxed with not needing to spam fast expensive heals, however, taking more damage overall still makes that strength very, very subjective -- especially in a pug world where people stand in fire, when compared to a dk who can more or less heal itself for close to a minute if played well.

the 10% nerf that tanks got recently hit BM the hardest as it was already p. weak in that regard (I've literally never seen a brewmaster tank in a dungeon across leveling / spamming heroics on 4 character).

While I'll agree that its not unplayable and it works well on single enemy bosses with lots of physical dmg, I'll also have to agree to the one that said the class is super awkward to play and just has a lot of QOL issues that make it feel less fun than it by all right should, as again the base spec feel very fluid. It's a shame, really. Tho I guess its not the first time fun was taxed / monks were given the short end.

Someone also mentioned that brew is more survivable than a bear; I kindof feel like the two are in the same boat, in that stagger and lots of hp but generally lower mitigation both lead to a problem of "I need more heals", making both mechanics feel counter-productive to me.

[sdre]

I think it's what the others talk about, BrMs have to work abit harder to make it viable... and alot of times, people just want something simple and easy.. so they will look for warrior tank or guardian druid or even a prot paladin.

Play what you think is fun, i enjoy playing the least played class, and its challenging and definitely rewarding... when you see this class has alot of potential, and who knows, maybe some buffs/love from blizzard... might come along our way