Are there just too many priest healers are are we just the worst healer spec atm?

[Al Gorefiend]

What exactly does this proof? Nobody here argues that HPS numbers aren't up to par or that we can't get into lower mythics. The problems are utility, mobility and survivability.

What puts our utility below MWs? What puts our mobility below Hpal? Survivability? I'd say Discs are leading the pack on that front. What are you seeing that I'm not? Maybe I'm just above average at Disc?

Oh and I am talking about Disc btw. I've spent a total of 15 minutes as holy priest in the last 4 years to check out the artifact tree. So if the problems you're seeing are Holy specific disregard what I'm saying.

[spiritsurge]

I really like Holy's throughput, I raid as shadow primarily but had to step in as heals for heroic EN last night and crushed the healing numbers and I was consistently ahead of most of the other healers. My only complaint with holy is pretty much the same as everyone else's, we don't really have any survivability for ourselves and it can be pretty punishing for mythic +.

Disc is difficult to get a grasp of but i'm liking it now that I properly understand what spells I need to use for certain situations. My problem is efficiency which will come with experience, I don't feel at all like either spec is the worst healer spec atm.

[frbls]

Why Priests don't have a combat rez is beyond me. That's about as big a "miracle" as you can get in this game, and the miracle class can't even do it. Do I think it would shift the needle in terms of the utility value a priest brings? Not really, but it'd be a start.

[makketota]

I enjoy disc alot, and its bursty way of healing, trying holy now feels very slow with mastery carrying most of the throughput. Even Method had a disc during their mythic progression, so if its viable for a top 3 guild its definetly viable for everyone else, albeit abit harder to master.

Only thing I would complain about is Power Word: Radience, I really wish its heal was an absorb due to it beeing the main tool to blanket a raid with attonement, making its healing portion feel wasted in many cases.

[KaijuLizard]

When you guys talk about how as Holy you're top of the heals, how is that? Are you raiding with 2 other healers tops? Every fight? Even the ranked Holy priests are in some cases, being outhealed by other classes.

[spiritsurge]

When you guys talk about how as Holy you're top of the heals, how is that? Are you raiding with 2 other healers tops? Every fight? Even the ranked Holy priests are in some cases, being outhealed by other classes.

I think part of it comes down to just straight up skill/other healers not pulling their weight. I don't even main holy yet I was 2nd on healing almost the whole night on heroic, only beat out by our mistweaver monk. Our healer set up was priest, monk, pally, and 2 druids.

[Deleted]

What puts our utility below MWs? What puts our mobility below Hpal? Survivability? I'd say Discs are leading the pack on that front. What are you seeing that I'm not? Maybe I'm just above average at Disc?

Oh and I am talking about Disc btw. I've spent a total of 15 minutes as holy priest in the last 4 years to check out the artifact tree. So if the problems you're seeing are Holy specific disregard what I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure most people here are talking about holy priests to be honest, since I feel people just don't like the playstyle of disc.

You're right about your comparisons to other healers. The thing is that most healers have exactly one thing they're bad at. And we are mediocre in everything. In an ideal world this 'Jack-of-all-Trades' concept might work - but in reality it just puts you below specialized people.
If it were just one thing it would be fine, but we're lacking in everything except HPS.

[pseudoJ]

What puts our utility below MWs? What puts our mobility below Hpal? Survivability? I'd say Discs are leading the pack on that front. What are you seeing that I'm not? Maybe I'm just above average at Disc?.

And what survivability tools does discipline actually have? Both barrier and PS are on a fairly high cd and often required for tank/group damage. Focused will won't cut it either. We are left with PW:S and I don't think the 300k hp shield changes much. On top of that (as somebody already stated) wearing cloth is already sort of a disadvantage.

Currently I find my limit to be +6 (considering average pug environment) and BRH for example is a freaking nightmare to deal with. How do I deal with fixated abilities? Such as archers shooting at me or the mage-type? The thing hits for around 0.5M a hit every 2 seconds or so, etc... I would imagine certain abilities even on bosses will be hitting hell lot harder starting Mythic +8. The fact that every second group is full melee and thus stuff is always thrown at you is not helping either.

Personally I think quite a lot of issues is supposed to be solved by CCing the mob etc..however the issues other classes will often survive for longer period of time = requiring less attention from the rest of the group = are going to be preferred.


** disclaimer: I am not arguing the class/spec is bad, I would say it's mostly fine. Some things however make the play artificially harder (in therms that there is nothing you can do about it).

[Al Gorefiend]

And what survivability tools does discipline actually have? Both barrier and PS are on a fairly high cd and often required for tank/group damage. Focused will won't cut it either. We are left with PW:S and I don't think the 300k hp shield changes much. On top of that (as somebody already stated) wearing cloth is already sort of a disadvantage.

Currently I find my limit to be +6 (considering average pug environment) and BRH for example is a freaking nightmare to deal with. How do I deal with fixated abilities? Such as archers shooting at me or the mage-type? The thing hits for around 0.5M a hit every 2 seconds or so, etc... I would imagine certain abilities even on bosses will be hitting hell lot harder starting Mythic +8. The fact that every second group is full melee and thus stuff is always thrown at you is not helping either.

Personally I think quite a lot of issues is supposed to be solved by CCing the mob etc..however the issues other classes will often survive for longer period of time = requiring less attention from the rest of the group = are going to be preferred.


** disclaimer: I am not arguing the class/spec is bad, I would say it's mostly fine. Some things however make the play artificially harder (in therms that there is nothing you can do about it).

A few points:

- Focused Will makes the "we wear cloth" argument pretty invalid. We take 30% less damage from all sources regardless. I don't think the difference between cloth and plate damage reduction is over 30% physical damage...
- You missed Rapture as a survivability tool. Shorter CD than PS and when bundled with Body and Soul makes it a 60% speed boost for 10+ seconds if you spam yourself with shields. Can be spammed on the tank as well. If you have an addon that tracks absorbs on the health bar you can tell when to apply it again for max effectiveness on the tank.
- Yes mythics are pretty tough. I did BRH +4 this morning and had to drink between almost every pull. Kudos for you managing +6. We lack the Oshit buttons of healing tide and hymn. Is disc the only healer without a big group burst heal these days?

[spiritsurge]

A few points:

- Focused Will makes the "we wear cloth" argument pretty invalid. We take 30% less damage from all sources regardless. I don't think the difference between cloth and plate damage reduction is over 30% physical damage...
- You missed Rapture as a survivability tool. Shorter CD than PS and when bundled with Body and Soul makes it a 60% speed boost for 10+ seconds if you spam yourself with shields. Can be spammed on the tank as well. If you have an addon that tracks absorbs on the health bar you can tell when to apply it again for max effectiveness on the tank.
- Yes mythics are pretty tough. I did BRH +4 this morning and had to drink between almost every pull. Kudos for you managing +6. We lack the Oshit buttons of healing tide and hymn. Is disc the only healer without a big group burst heal these days?

The problem with Focused Will is it only activates when you take a melee hit and it's only 15% per hit stacking up to 30% so you'll need to be melee hit twice for the 30% reduc, and you typically won't even be using the damage reduction because you shouldn't be getting hit. But if you DO take a hit to activate it it seems more likely that you will die before the damage reduction can really save you.

[PeopleReady]

A few points:

- Focused Will makes the "we wear cloth" argument pretty invalid. We take 30% less damage from all sources regardless. I don't think the difference between cloth and plate damage reduction is over 30% physical damage...
- You missed Rapture as a survivability tool. Shorter CD than PS and when bundled with Body and Soul makes it a 60% speed boost for 10+ seconds if you spam yourself with shields. Can be spammed on the tank as well. If you have an addon that tracks absorbs on the health bar you can tell when to apply it again for max effectiveness on the tank.
- Yes mythics are pretty tough. I did BRH +4 this morning and had to drink between almost every pull. Kudos for you managing +6. We lack the Oshit buttons of healing tide and hymn. Is disc the only healer without a big group burst heal these days?

Someone hasn't read the focused will tooltip.

[Al Gorefiend]

The problem with Focused Will is it only activates when you take a melee hit and it's only 15% per hit stacking up to 30% so you'll need to be melee hit twice for the 30% reduc, and you typically won't even be using the damage reduction because you shouldn't be getting hit. But if you DO take a hit to activate it it seems more likely that you will die before the damage reduction can really save you.

Someone hasn't read the focused will tooltip.

I know, but we're discussing healers to healers, so why would a plate healer like Pala be any more likely to be hit than a priest. What is hitting you so hard that getting hit less than twice until FW procs fully is a serious concern to your survivability?

[PeopleReady]

I know, but we're discussing healers to healers, so why would a plate healer like Pala be any more likely to be hit than a priest. What is hitting you so hard that getting hit less than twice until FW procs fully is a serious concern to your survivability?

The random auto targeting lightning bolts from HOV trash in mythic+8-9

[PosPosPos]

A few points:

- Focused Will makes the "we wear cloth" argument pretty invalid. We take 30% less damage from all sources regardless. I don't think the difference between cloth and plate damage reduction is over 30% physical damage...

Hint: It only procs on melee damage. Plus every other healer class has at least one personal cooldown they can pop on a really short cd to save themselves. Shamans with Astral Shift, Paladins with Divine Shield and Divine Protection, Druids with Barkskin and Guardian Affinity and Monks with Healing Elixir/Diffuse Magic/Dampen Harm depending on the situation.

- You missed Rapture as a survivability tool. Shorter CD than PS and when bundled with Body and Soul makes it a 60% speed boost for 10+ seconds if you spam yourself with shields. Can be spammed on the tank as well. If you have an addon that tracks absorbs on the health bar you can tell when to apply it again for max effectiveness on the tank.

/facepalm

Spamming PW:S back-to-back is much worse than just spamming Shadowmend on yourself. Body and Soul is also 40%, not 60%.

Kindly refrain from commenting on inter-spec balance if you don't even have the entry level knowledge on Priest numbers and mechanics.

[pseudoJ]

A few points:

- Focused Will makes the "we wear cloth" argument pretty invalid. We take 30% less damage from all sources regardless. I don't think the difference between cloth and plate damage reduction is over 30% physical damage...
- You missed Rapture as a survivability tool. Shorter CD than PS and when bundled with Body and Soul makes it a 60% speed boost for 10+ seconds if you spam yourself with shields. Can be spammed on the tank as well. If you have an addon that tracks absorbs on the health bar you can tell when to apply it again for max effectiveness on the tank.
- Yes mythics are pretty tough. I did BRH +4 this morning and had to drink between almost every pull. Kudos for you managing +6. We lack the Oshit buttons of healing tide and hymn. Is disc the only healer without a big group burst heal these days?

- Focused will works only on melee attacks and requires you to get hit (twice actually). Doesn't help with "almost one shot/ one shot" damange at all
- How does repeated spamming of PW:S help against something either hitting like truck with single blow (e.g. arcane bolt in BRH) or fairly large and fast consecutive hits (e.g. archer's shots in BRH)?. It helps a bit for the consecutive scenario. However you may not have so much gcds to spam PW:S (actually maybe just healing trhough it with shadowmend would be more effective).
- So basically disc might not be the "leader of the pack when it comes to survivability", right?

[KaPe]

At least Disc has traits which give damage reduction on Fade. Better than Holy who gets speed increase on chastise.

[PosPosPos]

At least Disc has traits which give damage reduction on Fade. Better than Holy who gets speed increase on chastise.

We don't even get there until we are done with everything else.

[pseudoJ]

At least Disc has traits which give damage reduction on Fade. Better than Holy who gets speed increase on chastise.

Which you are likely to take as very last. Also isn't it like 10% when you get 3/3? I will defend discipline viability to death. However we are total shit when it comes to personal defensive cooldowns.

[Haster]

Which you are likely to take as very last. Also isn't it like 10% when you get 3/3? I will defend discipline viability to death. However we are total shit when it comes to personal defensive cooldowns.

Don't you think there comes a point where if you don't buy the power they have on offer maybe you don't get to complain about the problems that power would solve?

The fact that it's only 10% is very valid but the fact that you (and many others) decided to give it nearly zero value is not a good argument.

Personally I chose a different path and ended up with that almost as fast as I could and altho it wasn't my intention I've found that it does help a little; it's at least worth the gcd if you know ahead of time you'll get hit.

[PosPosPos]

Don't you think there comes a point where if you don't buy the power they have on offer maybe you don't get to complain about the problems that power would solve?

The fact that it's only 10% is very valid but the fact that you (and many others) decided to give it nearly zero value is not a good argument.

Personally I chose a different path and ended up with that almost as fast as I could and altho it wasn't my intention I've found that it does help a little; it's at least worth the gcd if you know ahead of time you'll get hit.

Here's the thing, it takes us on a detour off the 3 dragons, all of which are amazing traits, just for 10% DR. We didn't say it was useless, or that the value was nearly zero, but that we have to spend a huge opportunity cost for a tiny reward.

10% DR is hardly what you would call a personal cooldown, not when the alternatives of other specs are like 20-100%.