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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide - 7.2

    Frost PVE: 7.2
    I really need to split this into different sets for different builds...


    Priority

    This includes all talents at their relative points. Below will be an explanation of how each is to be used. Spells in blue are talents.

    Pre-pull Ebonbolt


    • Frost Bomb if you have at least one Fingers of Frost.
    • Rune of Power
    • Icy Veins
    • Ray of Frost
    • Water Jet
      • Cast two Frostbolts into the debuff, followed by Ice Lance.
    • Ice Lance on Fingers of Frost if Brain Freeze procs.
    • Flurry on Brain Freeze. See section on Flurry in the Miscellaneous section below.
      • Try to Frostbolt before casting Flurry so that it crits, and maintains the Chain Reaction buff.
      • Ice Lance immediately after casting Flurry.
      • Ice Nova can be thrown into Winter's Chill after the Ice Lance for Shatter benefit.
    • Frozen Touch
    • Ice Lance on Fingers of Frost.
    • Frozen Orb
    • Ice Nova
    • Comet Storm
    • Ebonbolt
    • Glacial Spike
    • Blizzard
    • Frostbolt

    Frost Bomb should be up for every Ice Lance you cast.

    Rune of Power should be used either going into Icy Veins, if it's about to cap out 2 charges and Icy Veins isn't coming off cooldown in the next couple of seconds, the target's going to die before anything good can be paired with it.

    Icy Veins should be used roughly on cooldown. Be mindful of mechanics that will disrupt you, or extra damage phases.

    Ray of Frost should be used on cooldown. Avoid pairing it with Rune of Power outside of Icy Veins, the rest of the rotation will out-damage it without the extra Haste.

    Water Jet commands your Elemental to channel at the target. Any Frostbolts that impact the target during it will give you Fingers of Frost. Takes a bit of practice, but a general guess is hit the Water Jet spell about half way through your Frostbolt cast to make sure both hit in time.

    Flurry when cast with Brain Freeze becomes instant, and lets any spells that impact within 1.6 seconds afterwards count as Frozen. The most obvious answer to this is to cast Ice Lance after a Flurry, but requires you to dump Fingers of Frost prior to use.

    Frozen Touch when you have no Fingers of Frost.

    Ice Nova and Comet Storm should be cast on cooldown, trying to hit Ice Nova into a Flurry if at all possible, no big deal if not. The lost uses over a fight's duration mean more.

    Ebonbolt when you have no Fingers of Frost or 1, if you've got Icy Hand.

    Glacial Spike is at the bottom of priority because nothing will cause you to lose a cast of it other than another Frostbolt cast. As long as you don't cast another Frostbolt, there's no lost damage assuming you can get the Glacial Spike in before the 1 minute duration of your first Icicle expires.

    Blizzard is no longer cast single target. If you have 2 or more targets, it's worth using at this level.

    Frostbolt is your filler spell.


    Builds

    Single target raid SimC: LW/Shimmer or Ice Floes/IF/FT/whichever/UM/TV

    Any form of second target at any point in the fight: LW/Shimmer or Ice Floes/IF/SI/whichever/AG/TV

    Kuni's dungeon/solo build: RoF/Shimmer or Ice Floes/RoP/IN(low keys) or SI(high keys)/whichever/AG/CmS

    I've been having the most success with this in dungeons. It's a decent mix of single target burst and sustained AOE. You're not going to beat a Fire mage, but you're at least an average DPS on trash. Ray+Rune+IV should solidly let you crush people on single target bosses, though. Nothing quite like seeing 2.5m burst DPS in a 5 man dungeon.


    Talents

    Level 15:
    Ray of Frost: Superior single target burst. Always 10 seconds of casting, with Haste adding more ticks.
    Lonely Winter: Solid overall winner with Obsidian Lance.
    Bone Chilling: General increase to everything is great, and the only talent on the line that impacts Blizzard, Ice Nova, Frost Bomb, Ebonbolt, Glacial Eruption...

    Lonely Winter is just too good at the gear levels we're at and the new traits. Multipliers on multipliers. Generally take LW for most things.

    Level 30:
    Shimmer: Blink while casting!
    Ice Floes: Cast while moving!
    Glacial Insulation: Why? Literal 0% use talent.

    Pick one of the first two, up to you which one you like best.

    Level 45:
    Mirror Image: Temporary aggro drop.
    Rune of Power: Burst window empowerment.
    Incanter's Flow: A passive to be ignored. Attempting to game the stacks almost always works out to a DPS loss.

    Incanter's Flow is the way to go these days. Mirror Image isn't far behind on single target either.

    Level 60:
    Ice Nova: Burst AOE and a very short Freeze.
    Frozen Touch: On demand Fingers of Frost generation.
    Splitting Ice: Glorious cleave.

    Frozen Touch is your go-to for raw single target with Thermal Void. It's needed to maintain the uptime on Icy Veins. Ice Nova is the single target option for non-TV, with Splitting Ice being the best for cleave. Ice Nova is situationally amazing; it does count as a Freeze, so the ability to cast an Ebonbolt or Glacial Spike at a target to follow up with Ice Nova for the Shatter is pretty great out in the world.

    Splitting Ice is also the talent of choice for GS builds, due to the increased Icicle damage.

    Level 75:
    Frigid Winds: A return to WotLK-era slows!
    Ring of Frost: Sometimes you really need another CC.
    Ice Ward: Maybe you're kiting, like back on Nefarian?

    Up to you. I like Frigid Winds a lot, but it's also a huge disadvantage for Sanguine weeks.

    Level 90:
    Frost Bomb: For when you want AOE right now. Decent in dungeons.
    Unstable Magic: Single target, because no extra buttons means more Ice Lances.
    Arctic Gale: Whenever you're casting Blizzard.

    UM is best single target. If you're running LW/TV, I would honestly suggest going UM to help with up-times. AG is what you should pick if you're going to be casting Blizzard at all.

    Level 100:
    Thermal Void: Somehow the best on the line, despite being passive.
    Glacial Spike: The best animation we have.
    Comet Storm: More burst AOE. Somehow better single target damage than Glacial Spike.

    Not much to say here. Thermal Void's strength relies on actually getting Icy Veins extended to around 50-60% uptime. Large sets of movement or downtime will remove any advantage it has.

    Glacial Spike is usable, but it's definitely strange to play.

    Stats

    The LW/TV build wants:

    Intellect > Shatter cap > Haste >= Versatility > Mastery >= more Crit

    Shatter Crit cap is 33.34%. That said, you're going to see it start to drop out of favour around 28% due to probability. Please sim yourself.

    GS build wants a more even distribution of stats. There's very much a balancing act between Crit and Mastery, and it's not unheard of to have Vers as your best at some gear points.


    As always, sim yourself for accurate weights specific to you. The above is nothing but a guideline. Realize that


    Ebonchill

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209851034657357835/217064942589837312/Frost-Artifacts-Templates.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/129872466649546752/294784594237063168/Frost_Artifacts_72_New.png


    You'll notice that this isn't what SimC uses as a default. The optimal actually changes at a certain point around 26 points in, so SimC is using something different. Until then, this is the best path. I can't really tell you to go respec your weapon, especially since it balances out fairly quickly. The short of it is, Let It Go, Frozen Veins, Chain Reaction, It's Cold Outside, Icy Hand, and Chilled to the Core are the primary goals. How you get to them is up to you.

    Best relic is Frozen Veins, followed by Let It Go and Clarity of Thought.


    Legendaries

    Get the gloves and bracers. Heroism ring's pretty good too.


    Miscellaneous

    Flurry


    The Winter's Chill debuff applied by Flurry, the one that allows spells to consider target frozen for 1.6 seconds, can be gamed further than explained prior. Firstly, if you Frostbolt -> Flurry -> Ice Lance, the Frostbolt will gain the benefit of Shatter if you are further than 23 yards from the target due to travel speeds.

    There was a hotfix in 7.1.5 that basically lets you never munch a BF proc if you cast Flurry right after your Frostbolt. Hit it ASAP. Shatter every Frostbolt you can.

    It's theoretically possible to get both Ebonbolt and Glacial Spike to Shatter with Flurry. This requires Shimmer, but basically you wind up Glacial Spike/Ebonbolt, hit your BF-Flurry as soon as they launch, and before the second and third bolts of Flurry leave your hand, hit Shimmer. The last one or two Flurry bolts, now 20 yards forward from where you started, should now arrive before Ebonbolt/Glacial Spike, letting them gain Shatter. This is somewhat impractical in normal situations, as it requires you to have a Brain Freeze proc as Ebonbolt comes off cooldown, or you generate your fifth Icicle.

    Potions

    Prolonged Power.

    SimulationCraft

    We put an absolute absurd amount of work into getting SimC more accurate for mages. It's fine to use.
    Please learn how to simulate your character. It will allow you to not need to ask opinions on every little upgrade you get, and allows you to find out your own personal stat weights. A good video tutorial on how to do this is found here. A text tutorial by Frosted here.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2017-03-28 at 04:48 PM. Reason: 7.2 preliminary

  2. #2
    Nice guide, thank you Kuni.

  3. #3
    Good as a very basic guide but extremely limited information. More of an overview.

    No stat weights

    No artifact power progression path

    No traits for relics

    Nothing to say which talents might be better with different stat weights.

    If there is more to come put it at the bottom but this guide is disappointing.

  4. #4
    Wow I did not know about flurry's freezing effect. Good guide.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  5. #5
    What did your path look like for your artifact?

  6. #6
    Thank you for this! I'm dedicated Frost and sometimes I feel completely ignored by Blizzard's tuning and the Mage community at large. Everyone and their mother is Fire.

    Do we know how far behind Lonely Winter is from the other choices? I also like Ray for 5-mans, but would like to take LW to not have to deal with the stupid pet AI, but I really don't like the idea of losing a huge amount of dps.
    Last edited by MikeBabaguh; 2016-09-30 at 07:49 AM.

  7. #7
    Thank you for the guide!
    When I look at the current simulationcraft results many Artifact traits that haves that boost Icelance are selected, but not those that improve Frostbolt and Icicles (Icy Caress, Ice nine, Black Ice, even Ice Age). Will having these traits change our preferred talents towards a more Frostbolt focused playstyle? Or at least make them more viable? Like taking Lonely Winter, Splitting Ice, Unstable Magic, and Glacial Spike instead of the Icebomb synergy talents?
    Then mastery might be better, too – which is good considering that so many items have mastery on them.

  8. #8
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Thanks for this. One thing I would ask is about Artifact progression.

    Currently looks something like this:
    http://www.wowdb.com/artifact-calcul...BIAIAAAAAAAAAA

    So wondering which second gold trait to move towards.

  9. #9
    What uptime on BC does the simulations have? Because i sometimes can't keep BC up, without munching Ice Lance procs. If you are getting a streak of good procs pumping in to a frostbombed target, i think it can be challenging...

    What is the optimal opener with RoF? (IF)

    If BL on pull, should you Rof - then go to town with frostbomb/IV and spam away to keep IV up - or should you stack IV with BL before popping RoF? (meaning 10 secs less on IV of course)

  10. #10
    With Blizzard being used on single target, it should be easier to keep bone chilling stacks up I would figure.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Thanks for this. One thing I would ask is about Artifact progression.

    Currently looks something like this:

    So wondering which second gold trait to move towards.
    I think you want to make your way up to Chilled to the Core. At least that's what I did. I didn't really think too much of Black Ice, and I'd rather have more burst potential with Chilled to the Core (good for stuff like Ray of Frost). I went up via the left side (so Brain Freeze and Flurry traits) but I picked up Icy Hand on the way, which I think is another reason to go Chilled Core route rather than Black Ice. Icy Hand makes the game play a bit better, especially with Ebonbolt.

  12. #12
    What is the best race for frost? SimC profile uses Orc. But Altered time uses troll in it's profile.

  13. #13
    I've noticed that Flurry's freeze effect works on Frostbolts (but not Ebonbolts or Glacial Spikes) that you cast before casting Flurry (because of how freeze effects are calculated for the purpose of proccing Shatter in Legion) - but only from a certain range. I believe the range is around 20+ yards.

    Basically, the standard stand-still prio for Flurry would be:

    1. Clear Fingers of Frost charges
    2. Cast Frostbolt
    3. Cast Flurry
    4. Cast Ice Lance

    and all three of the spells will benefit from Shatter (aside from the first Flurry projectile).

    Sorry if this has been mentioned here or in other threads.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponkster View Post
    If there is more to come put it at the bottom but this guide is disappointing.
    Thank you, seriously. I completely forgot to re-add the stats while editing. I'll get the progression path in there, but relics are a bit harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakatt View Post
    Will having these traits change our preferred talents towards a more Frostbolt focused playstyle?
    Not particularly. Viable is up to you to define, but they are not optimal. The standard build is 15% ahead of the first LW build.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    So wondering which second gold trait to move towards.
    Run up the top/left side to grab Chilled to the Core. Technically optimal would be grabbing Icy Hand before going up to Ice Age.


    Quote Originally Posted by Giant View Post
    What uptime on BC does the simulations have? Because i sometimes can't keep BC up, without munching Ice Lance procs. If you are getting a streak of good procs pumping in to a frostbombed target, i think it can be challenging...
    98% on 12 stack. As was pointed out, Blizzard helps immensely in this fashion, as does Flurry.

    What is the optimal opener with RoF? (IF)
    IF RoF? Prepull Frostbolt -> Ray -> Water Jet -> Orb -> whatever else while dumping Lances.

    If BL on pull, should you Rof - then go to town with frostbomb/IV and spam away to keep IV up - or should you stack IV with BL before popping RoF? (meaning 10 secs less on IV of course)
    The former.

    Quote Originally Posted by noimawizard View Post
    What is the best race for frost? SimC profile uses Orc. But Altered time uses troll in it's profile.
    And latest sims say Dwarf. Realistically, the difference between Undead and Dwarf is quite literally 0.057%. Play what has the best fashion sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    I've noticed that Flurry's freeze effect works on Frostbolts (but not Ebonbolts or Glacial Spikes) that you cast before casting Flurry (because of how freeze effects are calculated for the purpose of proccing Shatter in Legion) - but only from a certain range. I believe the range is around 20+ yards.
    Correct. It's 23 yards. I should probably make a note of it, as well as the Ebonbolt/GS+Shimmer Shatters. Thanks for the reminder. Usroc's killed my ability to think.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2016-09-30 at 06:05 PM.

  15. #15
    Hi guys is frost just as viable to level with as fire? I seemed to have a lot of downtime from 100-101, does it get substantially easier while levelling or would frost be just as good?
    Smashed by a car at 64 Kmph and walked away with just a grazed elbow, tank. 29/11/13

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Fire has Cauterizing Blink, but Frost's chills were recently buffed back to 50%. Should be fine to level with, most singular mobs shouldn't have much health by the time they get to you, and you can kite them pretty well now.

  17. #17
    do you even use rof? from experience best opener when bloodlust is used at start is bloodlust>icy veins > rune of power>(pot)> Rof , try it ones and see thos ticks crit for 600k+ (and with a bit of haste i have 40% base in that combo you get around 20 ticks wich means 10 ticks at max damage)

    one thing i have to add is that i whent for cttc build in artifact first
    Last edited by quickstrike; 2016-10-01 at 11:18 AM.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    RoF has wonderful openers but drops off. That said, it's only a couple thousand behind BC, so I personally prefer to run it.

  19. #19
    I have Mag's bracers, is it actually worth to keep the stacks up? or should i just forget about it?

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    It's not worth casting non-FoF Ice Lances, if that's what you mean.

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