One Way to make PvP Healing Better for Everyone

[Professor Expert]

This is a good topic to bring up again since they have yet to implement a feature like this for PvP healing:

Healing should have diminishing returns when consecutive heals on the same target are cast by any source other than the player. Self-heals are not affected by diminishing returns for NON HEALING specs.

Basic Implementation:
A stacking debuff that stacks up to 100 times with each stack reducing all healing received by a percentage that varies based on the class and spec affected, because a healing DR would have a lot less effect on a tank spec or class with high defensive abilities than it would on a squishy DPS spec with limited defense, but it would nonetheless be a very easy and fair way to tune heals. You shift it from buffing/nerfing the healing done by healers to limiting the amount of healing a particular class/spec can receive.

How it could work:
Each time a player is healed, the debuff increases stacks in proportion to the amount of healing received. The ratio of stacks to healing received can and should be tuned. Self-heals of a non-healing spec are never affected by the debuff. Healing-specs self-heals will be affected by the DR.

For every 1 second that the a player is not healed by any source other than self-heals, the debuff stacks tick down exponentially (-1%, -2%, -4%, -8%, -16%, 32%, 64% etc). Exponential means that after 5 sec, the player sheds about 30% of the stack, and after 7 sec a player will completely shed the debuff entirely...but consecutive heals within 4 sec or so will not have significant impact on the stacks, thus allowing players to maintain pressure while allowing skilled healers/dps to disengage and run the clock down on the debuff. It makes pvp a lot more tactical.

Tweaks and Abilities:
This debuff opens up new possibilities for healing abilities that temporarily bypass the DR, either by allowing heals to ignore it OR by causing heals not to add stacks to it. DPS specs can also have some of their special abilities increase the healing DR debuff or prevent it from ticking down. In both cases, it should be an on-use ability with a reasonably long CD of 2 mins or more and effect that lasts 4-8 sec or less.

Benefits:
If this was implemented as outlined here and tuned as recommended per class/spec, it would make pvp a lot more tactical and allow for a lot more ebb-and-flow without any player getting to be "immortal". It naturally scales with group size, because in larger groups the healer will be healing more targets for a lower amount, thus building up debuff stacks at a lower rate. In smaller groups the debuff builds up a lot quicker, thus restricting the generally OP nature of heals in 2v2 and 3v3.

[Beowulfe]

For every 1 second that the a player is not healed by any source other than self-heals, the debuff stacks tick down exponentially (-1%, -2%, -4%, -8%, -16%, 32%, 64% etc). Exponential means that after 5 sec, the player sheds about 30% of the stack, and after 7 sec a player will completely shed the debuff entirely...but consecutive heals within 4 sec or so will not have significant impact on the stacks, thus allowing players to maintain pressure while allowing skilled healers/dps to disengage and run the clock down on the debuff. It makes pvp a lot more tactical.

While I am all for mixing things up and looking for potential points of unique balance, I'm not sure this would actually make PvP that much more tactical. It would benefit tunnel visioning a single target (since the healer cannot continuously heal them), and also punish targeting a healer (since it would count as self heals when he heals himself).

In addition, this would severely punish HOTs, as it will never allow room for the debuff to drop off.

[Professor Expert]

While I am all for mixing things up and looking for potential points of unique balance, I'm not sure this would actually make PvP that much more tactical. It would benefit tunnel visioning a single target (since the healer cannot continuously heal them), and also punish targeting a healer (since it would count as self heals when he heals himself).

In addition, this would severely punish HOTs, as it will never allow room for the debuff to drop off.

Fair points, but let me address them...

The point is to make healing a support ability and not a "you get to live forever as long as there's a healer within 40 yds of you" ability. Even with a full 100 stack healing will not be reduced entirely, which is why I said the degree of reduction needs to vary based on the class/spec. I also did mention twice that the self-healing exemption does not apply to healing specs...which means that a healer healing themselves will trigger the DR and reset the counter, but the DR will accumulate at a reduced rate. The self-healing exemption is for non-healing specs with healing abilities, like DKs or WW monks.

HoTs would only count from the time they are initially applied and/or refreshed not with each tick of the HoT. One HoT application counts as one heal for the DR counter regardless of how many ticks it heals for, although with each tick that heals, the amount of DR per tick will increase because the total healing received has increased. Now if a druid keeps spamming a HoT to refresh it, each refresh or reapplication of the HoT will incrementally nudge the DR counter up, but because the stacks build based on the actual healing received, a HoT that heals once per 2 sec applied twice would only have ticked once, and therefore increased the DR by that increment.

The main drawback of refreshing/spamming HoTs is that you'd be resetting the counter each time, but that's the point. We need to get away from this ability that healers should have so much influence on the outcome of pvp matches.

Tactical means tactics, which will reward players for making smarter use of their class abilities. Tunneling may sound like the way to go, but you say that like the attacker will not also be taking damage themselves. If they go all out like that they're just as likely to get blown up as well. Tactics.

[wombats23]

personally i like the current pace of 3v3 games (compared to mop and wod). to each their own.

[Egor2765]

If you try to simulate it, I think people would just start stacking 16k versatility and no other stats which would in turn completely counter the healing reduction debuff. Cause atm I have almost 150 % mastery and I only have 10k mastery points. If that was versatility, it would be 100% damage reduction.

[Deleted]

I think in arenas healing is fine, tho I'd like if healers were optional in 3v3s.

In battleground however, they mostly create stalemate and make game boring.

[melzas]

If you try to simulate it, I think people would just start stacking 16k versatility and no other stats which would in turn completely counter the healing reduction debuff. Cause atm I have almost 150 % mastery and I only have 10k mastery points. If that was versatility, it would be 100% damage reduction.

Stats on your gear dont matter in pvp, what are you babbling about?

[Protean]

If you try to simulate it, I think people would just start stacking 16k versatility and no other stats which would in turn completely counter the healing reduction debuff. Cause atm I have almost 150 % mastery and I only have 10k mastery points. If that was versatility, it would be 100% damage reduction.

You can't stack anything in pvp

[Ultima]

Essentially, you want the Arena's dampening debuff to be active in all aspects of PvP? If I'm incorrect, I have no idea what your goal is. If this is the case, as a Healer myself, how does this make "PvP Healing" better for me, the healer?

[Professor Expert]

If you try to simulate it, I think people would just start stacking 16k versatility and no other stats which would in turn completely counter the healing reduction debuff. Cause atm I have almost 150 % mastery and I only have 10k mastery points. If that was versatility, it would be 100% damage reduction.

As others said, pvp stats were normalized and are based only on your item level. All enchants, proc effects and such are disabled in instanced pvp. In world pvp, your gear still matters.

That said, 10K points in versatility will not yield 100%. You get more mastery per point, which is class dependent. For instance, every 100 points in mastery may give you 1.5% mastery, but 100 points of versatility may only give you 0.5% versatility, which means you get 300% more mastery per point than than versatility.

- - - Updated - - -

Essentially, you want the Arena's dampening debuff to be active in all aspects of PvP? If I'm incorrect, I have no idea what your goal is. If this is the case, as a Healer myself, how does this make "PvP Healing" better for me, the healer?

It is comparable to dampening, but dampening was flawed because it was a blanket "one size fits all" debuff that did not account for class/spec specifics. It also only sought to act as a time limiter. My suggesting allows a debuff to build up depending on the amount a target is healed, and it also allows for that debuff to fall off if the target can avoid damage.

This makes healing better for you because you won't be constantly hit with nerfs or limitations on your abilities. Instead of tuning healers to have enough output to handle pve while still not being OP in pvp, you apply a debuff which is then tuned based on per class/spec combinations.

[Egor2765]

You can't stack anything in pvp

Stats on your gear dont matter in pvp, what are you babbling about?

This crap:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...hancement-Spec

This is a terrible idea anyway, as it would only promote mindless tunneling of one target.

[Stormspellz]

This simply sounds horrible on every level.

[Rucati]

Why in the world would you want this? This would literally turn the game into "Tunnel one target, throw all CC at healer" because eventually the healer would fall behind and you'd automatically win. That sounds like an absolutely terrible way to play the game, remove skill and decision making is a bad idea.

[Glnger]

Not to mention healers are in no way shape or form too powerful right now in any type of pvp

[nexellent]

yup, lets add a DR on damage too xD

[Professor Expert]

This crap:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...hancement-Spec

This is a terrible idea anyway, as it would only promote mindless tunneling of one target.

Are you saying that "mindless tunneling" isn't what already happens? My spec suggestion, which is what I currently run in the game, helps with all content. It's not a pvp spec because gear in pvp doesn't matter. You should know what you're talking about before declaring an idea "terrible".

This simply sounds horrible on every level.

Explain why.

Why in the world would you want this? This would literally turn the game into "Tunnel one target, throw all CC at healer" because eventually the healer would fall behind and you'd automatically win. That sounds like an absolutely terrible way to play the game, remove skill and decision making is a bad idea.

Uhh...no. If the healer is CC'd then there would be no DR building up, and any existing DR stacks would be falling off at an accelerated rate. CCing the healer actually results in more powerful healing once the CC ends.

Once again, another bandwagonner jumping in proclaiming the idea is "horrible" when they clearly do not understand it. Try actually reading what I wrote instead of skimming it.

Not to mention healers are in no way shape or form too powerful right now in any type of pvp

Healing still plays a disproportionate role in determining the outcome of pvp battles. A mediocre healer can turn the tide, whereas a mediocre DPS would be a liability.

yup, lets add a DR on damage too xD

My holy paladin, with wings and holy avenger, can throw out 600K+ holy shock heal crits for 20 sec straight. Resto shaman can spam riptide on targets below 50% HP and have a long-duration interrupt immunity ability.

Some classes need to lose some instant CCs or spammable CCs. Damage, otherwise, is not the issue.

[Glnger]

Ummm that's why you bring a healer tho. That's like complaining about tanks playing a disproportionate role in flag capping/node holding maps.

[Stormspellz]

Healing still plays a disproportionate role in determining the outcome of pvp battles. A mediocre healer can turn the tide, whereas a mediocre DPS would be a liability.

Explain why.

well it screws hots of all kinds and well healers in general, and drastically changes pvp to make mage/rogue hit and run the only viable game play.

and in randoms

A Good dps has more impact then a good healer
a bad healer has more impact then a bad dps
random bgs are filled with bad dps.

healing is a core pillar of pvp, this game isnt' meant to be a fps style gib fest.

[Professor Expert]

Ummm that's why you bring a healer tho. That's like complaining about tanks playing a disproportionate role in flag capping/node holding maps.

I'm not a fan of having tank specs viable in pvp unless their damage is severely gimped, which it's not...but that's another topic beyond the point where I stated that the healing DR would have a stronger affect on tank specs.

well it screws hots of all kinds and well healers in general, and drastically changes pvp to make mage/rogue hit and run the only viable game play.

and in randoms

A Good dps has more impact then a good healer
a bad healer has more impact then a bad dps
random bgs are filled with bad dps.

healing is a core pillar of pvp, this game isnt' meant to be a fps style gib fest.

How does it screw HoTs? That was one of the first things someone brought up and I responded to it with an explanation of why HoTs would not be affected any more than direct heals are.

Healing is not the core pillar of pvp. It went from being a support role to being an outright crutch that enables victory via attrition (not outplaying your opponents, but outlasting them). In general it has been the bane of competitive pvp because it alone is responsible for most of the imbalances between two teams facing off. The team with better healers almost always wins, and an all DPS team will generally lose to a DPS team with a few healers assuming equal skill between the two teams.

Let's not go into the hyperbole - this DR would not turn pvp into a "gib fest", it would simply reduce the overall power that healing has, so that an all DPS team would be on equal footing to a team with 2-3 healers.

[Glnger]

But literally that is not the problem in PVP right now.

...holinka, is that you?