1. #1
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Question Heroic dungeons: What's the point?

    Just to set out the way I view Legion, the argument could be made that it's Blizzard's best expansion for World of Warcraft, despite some errors (I've played them all). One of these errors, for me, is the design of heroic dungeons.

    Here's why:

    By the time I wanted to start queuing for heroic dungeons, I'd found that I'd already largely outgeared them. With me being a leatherworker, as well as enjoying World Quests, I found that there was little in heroic dungeons that interested me. Mythic dungeons, and Mythic+, are now the dungeoneering endgame that heroic dungeons were supposed to be on their Burning Crusade debut.

    So what's the point in heroic dungeons? What are they there for?

    The argument is often made that Mythic dungeons only have one lockout a week, and are therefore not appropriate for pre-raid gearing. This is absolutely true but, as I mentioned, World Quests have largely taken this slot. I wouldn't criticize this, because I think World Quests have been an overwhelming success, but they step on the niche that heroic dungeons are now designed to fill.

    The second point to bear in mind is that there are quests that put you into dungeons for additional reasons. Again, I totally support this view, and I like that zone quests lead to dungeons directly. But if this is an endgame function, Mythic dungeons would serve equally as well.

    Thirdly, you can't complete Glory of the Legion Hero in heroic dungeons. The achievements are now all designed to be completed on Mythic, which means the chasing of a mount or artifact skin is dead in the water.

    And lastly, heroic dungeons are contributing to the horrible power creep that the game suffers with in regard to gearing. Because they're set at 830+, that means Mythic dungeons need to be above that as does LFR. This is creating a much bigger spread of relevant item levels, which is a potential tuning problem.

    So, that's my question and concern - that the point in heroic dungeons seems to have been largely overwritten, and I'm wondering if there's something I don't quite understand or properly appreciate.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    They're for those who don't like world quests. You may have had fun zerging through those and not wanted to try heroic dungeons yet. Others might not have, so they did WQs for as long as they had to, then queued for heroics.

  3. #3
    So from all that you havent realized that because of the scaling of the areas and the gear while you are leveling, Normal = Leveling dungeons , Heroic = Normal Dungeons and Mythic = Heroic, right? right?

    And oh, there was nothing hard with TBC dungeons, maybe Arcatraz when you went the first time without knowing, stop glorifying irrelevant stuff, you only remember "TBC dungeons" because it gave you free purple colored gear for the first time.
    Last edited by potis; 2016-10-01 at 11:30 AM.

  4. #4
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    They're for those who don't like world quests. You may have had fun zerging through those and not wanted to try heroic dungeons yet. Others might not have, so they did WQs for as long as they had to, then queued for heroics.
    That's not really what I'm getting at.

    For example, I've done all of the heroic dungeons and I've done a good percentage of Mythic ones. I've not overdone World Quests, and I've made decent progress on my reputations and professions. I'm a bit of an "all-round PvE" player, rather than someone that concentrates solely on one thing. I suspect more players are like me than are unlike me, but that's a guess. So, from that standpoint, I wonder who heroic dungeons are really aimed at when all they're really achieving is the clogging up of endgame reward vehicles.

    I do take your point, though. Heroic dungeons could potentially be aimed at the players who aren't into the bigger difficulty of Mythic dungeons and who don't necessarily like questing, but my concern is that players very often gravitate toward whatever is most efficient; and I don't think heroic dungeons are more efficient than World Quests that guarantee items, can be specifically targeted, and are available to solo players without relying on the queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    So from all that you havent realized that because of the scaling of the areas and the gear while you are leveling, Normal = Leveling dungeons , Heroic = Normal Dungeons and Mythic = Heroic, right? right?
    You're rather missing the point.

    If heroic dungeons are aimed at an endgame audience (which they are), then all they are currently doing is providing another recycled stepping stone that's wholly unnecessary because of what's available elsewhere. Mythic dungeons aren't so hard that they exclude casual players, which means all they lack is a queue... Which is either catered for via group finder, or could be technically changed in a patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    And oh, there was nothing hard with TBC dungeons, maybe Arcatraz when you went the first time without knowing, stop glorifying irrelevant stuff, you only remember "TBC dungeons" because it gave you free purple colored gear for the first time.
    That's utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviemore View Post
    You're rather missing the point.

    If heroic dungeons are aimed at an endgame audience (which they are), then all they are currently doing is providing another recycled stepping stone that's wholly unnecessary because of what's available elsewhere. Mythic dungeons aren't so hard that they exclude casual players, which means all they lack is a queue... Which is either catered for via group finder, or could be technically changed in a patch.

    Actually you are the one missing the point.

    WoW has always been a raiding game, distractions are added to keep people subbed, Blizzard is and will always be a company, they do not care what you do online, or how long you play as long as you pay them.

    Dungeons, from Vanilla to now always had one existence: Gear to raid.

    If i cant convince you, the gear they provide can convince you, there is a reason its -always lower than the latest added raid-, because you are not supposed to get the best gear, in a gear chase game, off irrelevant content.

    There is a reason Mythic+10 is in the game as 865 ilevel and not 880 because you are not supposed to get guaranteed maximum gear item level by a dungeon, the Titanforged of course fixes that but its not guaranteed 880 like Mythic raiding is.

    The whole WoW as a game existence is to -raid-.

    I know you dont care about what i am saying but it doesnt change anything.

    Dungeons, were always irrelevant to the game, if they didnt add some sort of mechanic (Aka daily mechanic farming) people wouldnt even run them, and players have gotten much better over the years, even the average casual hates running dungeons after a few days.

    At least now with Mythic+ they can shut up all the people saying "I dont wanna raid, i only have 4 other friends to play with!" so they have something to do, AKA, KEEP THE SUBS RUNNING.
    Last edited by potis; 2016-10-01 at 01:35 PM.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Heroic dungeons are for people who enjoy lfg content and a stepping stone to mythic for organized groups. They are essentially 'max level normal'.

    A lot of players will be WQ/heroic/lfr types. There is a big audience that plays wow this way.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The whole WoW as a game existence is to -raid-.
    Yet such a tiny percentage of people actually do so.

    That's why Legion has systems that allow people to progress, without needing to. This is both sensible, and obvious.

    Thus, your entire (unnecessarily angry) presumption doesn't hold much weight. Added to the fact that around 90% of your post was completely irrelevant, I'm not sure I'll respond much more to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    A lot of players will be WQ/heroic/lfr types. There is a big audience that plays wow this way.
    The more I think about it, the more I think this is a reasonable argument. I generally feel that this is my part of the community and, arguably, the largest; but Mythic dungeons are not so brutally tuned as to be out of reach for players that are new, or casual-skill.

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