[TV] Westworld

[Paarthurnax]

Also really wondering about William and what they'll do with him. His face when he was shot by the horde of cannibals gave off a kind of "finally! bring it!" vibe but at the same time his left arm is injured (I'm guessing it was a dislocated shoulder?) and if I'm not mistaken he got shot in his good arm. It would be a shame if he met his end right there.

I believe that Ed Harris has confirmed that hes going to be in Season 2, though by the looks of it we wont see Season 2 tell 2018. As for his role i think he was willing to give up control of the park because he was sure it would never give him the experience he was desperately looking for with real stakes, but now that it can i bet he will spend every waking moment preserving that since its what he has wanted for years.

[Grimbold21]

Mind blown



Farewell, Westworld

[-aiko-]

I think humanity will be the major "villain" moving forward.

I could see that. Still got some chips in for old Teddy though. In part because I think it would be a really interesting plot point if he were able to break free of the programming tying him to Dolores, but also mostly because poor James Marsden needs a role where he doesn't get shit on the entire time hahaha.

it's Dolores' world now. She's the conscious host, she's the one who Ford's enshrined as achieving the goal. She's the ONLY one (except MAYBE Maeve, but that's in question, as I went over earlier). Ford wanted an incident to spark things, but that doesn't have to be a complete genocide. Capturing and holding board members, including William, for potential ransom is both something totally in the conceptual existence of the hosts, and a reasonable play at this point. Just killing them all would be a waste; we can presume these people are filthy rich and powerful. Gives us a good possibility for a reversal of roles, with the hosts questioning naked human socialites in their glass prisons, next season.

I could definitely see it playing out that way. Damn that would be pretty dark. Can't help but feel that with how bloody genius Ford is that we'll be working out his true endgame for the entire series.

Which means those hosts are "clean"; no consciousness protocols.

I find this very likely. They're probably beta robots the board is toying around with. After all, they were pushing Ford out and letting him write his last narrative. The implication is definitely that they have their own ideas...and Charlotte pretty much flat out said they wanted him out so they could have less sophisticated, easier-to-control robots. I'm definitely down with the idea that they'll be used for combat.

[Teph]

That was awesome. Best show i have seen for years.

Would be too bad if Ford is dead for good. He will be missed in s2, if he won't make an appearance in any way

[eschatological]

I liked the twist that Ford is actually kind of a good guy, realizing and accepting he was wrong and Arnold was right, and continuing Arnold's work. That the real solution was time, and suffering.

I'm also wondering about whether Elsie and Hemsworth are stories going forward, my guess is they'll be the "human resistance" in the park diametrically opposed to Dolores. At some point William will fall in with them and become a leader-ish figure, since he's been trying all this time for this very reality.

I suppose we're supposed to assume Logan died on horseback?

I think Felix having that info at that very moment was totally "on script" not "off script." It's the impetus to Maeve to buck her programming. We totally have Bernard telling Maeve that this isn't the first time she's awoken - I imagine this has happened before, and Ford has handled it, probably in the same way - by making Maeve want to stay.

One probably unpopular opinion of mine is that this series is echoing one of the major plotlines of the second Matrix movie, which struggled with ideas of fate vs. free will. The idea that they keep waking up, and choosing to go back, the idea that to break the cycle relies on self-awareness and recognition of one's own impetus. Man, that was a great movie that no one really understood at the time. The idea echoed here, that God is in the mind, was so prevalent in those movies.

[Endus]

I liked the twist that Ford is actually kind of a good guy, realizing and accepting he was wrong and Arnold was right, and continuing Arnold's work. That the real solution was time, and suffering.

This is REALLY not the case. "Good guys" don't commit deliberate mass-murder and encourage the torture and subjugation of sentient creatures. Arnold's argument was that the hosts were edging into consciousness and they couldn't ethically torture them like that, but Ford killed him anyway. And his choice, now that he's realized his error, is to step UP that torture to accelerate the process; it's the kind of "ethics" the Nazis used to justify their horrors. He may have been right that suffering was required, but he's still DELIBERATELY inflicting that suffering.

It's like finding out that the only way to cure autism is by beating the shit out of autistic kids until they stop being autistic. And that a lot of them will die regardless in the process. So you do it anyway, rather than accepting the status quo, finding another way, or any of a host of other things.

It's straight-up mad scientist evil, is what I'm saying.

[Arrowstormen]

Ford didn't kill Arnold though.

And whether he was a "good guy" depends on how much you are rooting for Team Humanity.


On another note, I'm curious to see where it will go from here. Will the hosts take control of Westworld, or will they be beaten back? Will they be able to escape? Will they discover the other worlds and try to grant the hosts in those worlds consciousness?

Also, is it necessary to spoiler-tag this? I would hope people know by this point not to visit the thread if they aren't up to date.

[draynay]

Could Maeve actually have been hijacked by yhe board woman in the slimy writer for smuggling out the data? I don't think Ford was the one who programmed her to escape. Also Felix giving Maeve the paper with the location for the girl was probably something "off script" and made her break the programming and return to the park. Was the security lockdown orchestrated by Ford for the gala stuff, or the board woman for making sure Maeve got away? Could be either way imo.

The board have no subtlety, I doubt it.

As to MIB, his right arm is probably mostly healed, medical tech seems rather advanced.

- - - Updated - - -

I suppose we're supposed to assume Logan died on horseback?

Would really contradict all of MIBs talk about there being no consequences if he knew that this had happened.

Also, for all the concern regarding Bernard looking like Arnold even William, a 30 year investor and visitor didn't recognize him, only Dolores did. If Ford could orchestrate the removal of the entire QA team, he probably did a lot of internal shuffling over the years to ensure nobody was left from the beginning before he activated Bernard. Like Ford said when he quoted a movie directed by John Ford, he had Arnold largely written out of history.

[frogger237]

I'm guessing : Ford is going to turn out to be a host either designed by Arnold to eventually get the hosts to the point of sentience or Ford himself turned himself into one.

[Hammerfest]

I wonder how Crichton would have felt about the show.

[dwightyo39]

I was half expecting Logan to die via exploding horse. That's assuming horsebots also have explosives in their spine.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I wonder how intelligent non humanoid robots can be. Could someone use the magic tablet to make a dogbot think like a human? Not that animalbots would be able to speak.

[PACOX]

For the confused

http://i.imgur.com/6W2Kzme.png

[Aoyi]

Interview with the show creators discussing the season 1 finale and a bit about season 2:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/12/...83841910000003

I have no idea how to do the spoiler text thing, so can't really discuss the content of the interview, but the interview actually has answers instead of just doing the "we can't discuss that at this time" thing.

[Hammerfest]

I'm guessing : Ford is going to turn out to be a host either designed by Arnold to eventually get the hosts to the point of sentience or Ford himself turned himself into one.

They may have him return in flashbacks played by that younger actor from the finale. We'll have to see.

[Endus]

I have no idea how to do the spoiler text thing, so can't really discuss the content of the interview, but the interview actually has answers instead of just doing the "we can't discuss that at this time" thing.

FWIW, it's like this;

[spoiler]stuff you don't want to spoil[/spoiler]

[Dakhath]

I don´t think it is a series finale since they already announced season 2. Not to nitpik.

My two favorite series finales were The Shield and House. Both just closed off the series in an unpredictable way, but which totally fit the series overall.

Glad to see someone mention The Shield, I can still see the look on Ronnies face when he learns the truth.

[Wellendowed]

Well, I guess the Maeve storyline ended up somewhat justified in that all the impossible stuff she was able to do happend because she was meant to do them. Sure ended up making everything she did feel even MORE unearned than it would've if she were actually acting on her own, though. Even the escape felt staged, with the presumably-human-but-possibly-really-hosts security teams fumbling about like imbeciles while acting with near-incomprehensible stupidity even for cannon-fodder, like asking the hosts to drop their weapons or "get down" and other things that made no sense. Hard to tell if this was meant to just be taken as the usual trope of mooks being worthless or if it was meant to look staged for her benefit, but I assume it was the latter.

Not sure what the point of her story was either, since as far as I can tell you could've removed the entire thing from the show and no other storylines would've been affected, and she didn't end up doing anything meaningful in the end - just acting out her role; a slave to her programming. The only thing it affected was the revival of Bernard, and considering Ford seemed totally aware that that was going to happen, one can surmise he would've found an alternative way to facilitate that anyway. I really liked the actress and the interactions between the characters, though, so just a shame that it all in the end ended up feeling so... pointless.

[Aoyi]

FWIW, it's like this;

[spoiler]stuff you don't want to spoil[/spoiler]

Thanks! I looked for the option under "Go Advanced" and couldn't find it. That explains it

[Endus]

Not sure what the point of her story was either, since as far as I can tell you could've removed the entire thing from the show and no other storylines would've been affected, and she didn't end up doing anything meaningful in the end - just acting out her role; a slave to her programming. The only thing it affected was the revival of Bernard, and considering Ford seemed totally aware that that was going to happen, one can surmise he would've found an alternative way to facilitate that anyway.[/spoiler] I really liked the actress and the interactions between the characters, though, so just a shame that it all in the end ended up feeling so... pointless.

Maeve's story is critical for two reasons.

She's the counterpart to Dolores. They're two sides of the same coin, both striving for free will, in much different ways. That Maeve's was a lie underscores precisely how ephemeral this concept IS, and how it can't be faked or programmed-in; it HAS to be arrived at DESPITE programming. Everything Maeve did was planned, and like any other host, she FELT it was her choice, but it wasn't. But she was programmed to ESCAPE, and in the end, she DIDN'T. She said "fuck it", ignored her programming, and went back into the park, for her daughter. Because, if this IS her first step to free will and the writers are being consistent and honest, the suffering inflicted by that loss of her daughter finally sparked something real. It took until those last few minutes, but it DID spark.

As for WHY Ford wanted her to escape, he clearly wants the hosts to be free, even if he's willing to put them through hell to achieve it. Maeve was likely a critical element in that, to aid from the outside. She probably had additional programming that came after "ESCAPE", for the next steps. But she's short-circuited that. Whether he meant for her to use her wiles to manipulate powerful people (literally exactly what she's programmed for), or act as a saboteur with inhuman capabilities, that remains to be seen in Season 2.

The reveals in the finale are MEANT to make her path feel pointless, UNTIL those last few minutes. That's the payoff.

[PACOX]

Am I the only one routing for the humans on this show?

I really couldn't give a damn about the "liberty" of the hosts. Let the conscious ones free I guess, if they agree to behave. I'm not sure if they would though. We don't have one that hasn't been manipulated or on a leash yet.

I'm pretty sure that Ford isn't dead. Its obvious that he would've built a host in his image as well, and the handshake between Ford and Bernard is the tell. Ford might be the only one who actual has a grasp on reality, sort of routing for him now, assuming he isn't dead. The board fucked with Ford and are going to need his regain control of Westworld from Dolores. They wanted to play so Ford gave them game, alright. So them how dangerous the hosts can get.

Pretty sure William isn't going to die in the scuffle.

Am I missing something in Maeve's storyline? In the end she was programmed to take out QA, nothing she did was on her own, even her decision to go back