Blackout Combo Basline ? New lvl100 talent ?

[Deleted]

After having a discussion in the hotfix thread, I did realise that this topic might need its own thread.

I'm a fan of brewmaster Monk and I feel the pain inside of me when I see how much struggle it currently have and my belief is that Blackout Combo is not innocent to that situation. Let's have a look at this talent :
- in competition with High Tolerance
- alters 5 spells behaviour with 1 single talent

First thing first, we can all agree that competition is almost non-existent with High Tolerance outside of base mythic dungeons (and lower difficulty content). Then in regards to the design of the talent itself, we saw Blizzard getting rid of most talents or glyphs that used to change drastically the gameplay of a class spec. Gladiator would be the latest one for prot warrior. We can also all agree that currently BrM Monk even if played well could struggle in harder content even with the best possible talent setup at the hand of the most skillfull player.

Taking into account those parameters, my suggestion would be to remove that talent and simply add its features to Blackout Strike, with possible tweak by changing the spell CD or adding an energy cost. We would then have baseline a spell similar to Thunder Focus Tea in regards to the design philosophy.

Doing so would imply the following :
- core gameplay would be the same despite set of talent choosen at level 100, which would then make balancing an easier process
- gameplay even if more complicated (compared to build without this talent on live) would also be more interesting and engaging (and fun but this is completly my opinion)
- overall BrM would be stronger thanks to an interaction between Blackout Combo and our other live level 100 talents
- a new talent could be introduce at level 100 with, as a suggestion, an interaction with spell damage mitigation

What would you think of such change ?

[Toby451]

I dont think thats the best way to buff BrM personally. Buffing purifying brew back up to 100% clear and replacing elusive dance would do far more for the spec.

[Raincrow]

I dont think thats the best way to buff BrM personally. Buffing purifying brew back up to 100% clear and replacing elusive dance would do far more for the spec.

I understand why they did what they did to Purifying Brew, because they wanted to prevent BrM from stacking 95% stagger and then purifying a hit that would kill any tank, but on the other hand, I felt like this was supposed to be Monk's actual purpose. They could take hits that would splat other tanks, but had to be healed more during sustained damage where they were constantly taking yellow levels of damage. Which would make them the opposite of a Warrior tank now, in a lot of ways. But the fact is, there is nothing a BrM does now that is better than other tanks. We take even more damage than the other leather tanks, because we have a single damage reduction ability. Our self heal is almost non-existent. We basically have no ability to survive in rough content if healers are disabled or delayed, which is something every other tank in the game can do. Even our "Oh crap" cooldown (on a 7 minute timer, no less, fairly certain the longest in the game) is completely underwhelming in anything approaching progression content.

If they want us to be a class that takes damage and needs healing, then the fix would be to give Tiger Palm a 10% chance to make Effuse an instant cast, and then make Effuse crits proc Gift of the Ox. Yes, it's RNG, but because we are a damage smoothing class, we have time to wait for a little RNG. And it would help us in world content, allowing us a better option for doing elite quests like every other tank can.

[shammypie]

I understand why they did what they did to Purifying Brew, because they wanted to prevent BrM from stacking 95% stagger and then purifying a hit that would kill any tank, but on the other hand, I felt like this was supposed to be Monk's actual purpose.

btw i play a mistweaver and this is my experience from healing a brewmaster in the guild.

numbers scew mechanical purposes. what the spec is missing is healing/damage prevention. Outside mythic dungeons tank pretty much self sustain. Furthermore the changes to healer mana make pumping heals into a tank fairly costly considering what is used to be like before. Demon hunters and DKs are the worst right now in healer opinion because you will waste soo much on their rubberband health bars. Brewmasters aren't really that bad the problem is the damage ramps up and we have other duties to do. Something around 2/3 brew clear would be more inline with what other tanks are healing back. That dot on yourself stacks up too high and my env, rem, sooth can;t push through it. Would be ok if it was from high tank damage phase, but it persists into recovery time which is no good.

[Raincrow]

btw i play a mistweaver and this is my experience from healing a brewmaster in the guild.

numbers scew mechanical purposes. what the spec is missing is healing/damage prevention. Outside mythic dungeons tank pretty much self sustain. Furthermore the changes to healer mana make pumping heals into a tank fairly costly considering what is used to be like before. Demon hunters and DKs are the worst right now in healer opinion because you will waste soo much on their rubberband health bars. Brewmasters aren't really that bad the problem is the damage ramps up and we have other duties to do. Something around 2/3 brew clear would be more inline with what other tanks are healing back. That dot on yourself stacks up too high and my env, rem, sooth can;t push through it. Would be ok if it was from high tank damage phase, but it persists into recovery time which is no good.

Oddly enough, I did the math, and even my own suggestion would fall flat. If you ignore Celestial Fortune, since it counts as a self-heal no matter the source, Monk self-healing and damage reduction/absorption is literally a fraction of our damage taken. We are really far behind on the survival curve.

[the9tail]

Blackout Combo is probably not baseline because if it was it increases the complexity of the class - something Blizz has been gating behind Talents recently, like additional activated abilities.
To make it baseline its effect needs to be effective even if the player makes a minor error. The problem with that is that it creates 5 choices.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackout Strike also empowers your next ability:

Tiger Palm: Damage increased by 200%.
Breath of Fire: Cooldown reduced by 6 sec.
Keg Smash: Reduces the remaining cooldown on your Brews by 2 additional sec.
Ironskin Brew: Pauses Stagger damage for 3 sec.
Purifying Brew: Grants you a stack of Elusive Brawler.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Needs to change to something similar to:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackout Strike reduces the remaining cooldown on all your brews by 2 sec and empowers your next ability:

Your next attack's damage is increased by 200%.
or
Your brews grant you a stack of Elusive Brawler and pauses Stagger damage for 3 sec.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Passive Effect means it will always help the player - whether or not they are being offensive or defensive.
Then a simple choice of doing more damage or increasing their defences.

I think that would keep "the soul" of the talent. Gives a buff to the spec by doing 2 or 3 of the original effects at once.

[Toby451]

I understand why they did what they did to Purifying Brew, because they wanted to prevent BrM from stacking 95% stagger and then purifying a hit that would kill any tank, but on the other hand, I felt like this was supposed to be Monk's actual purpose. They could take hits that would splat other tanks, but had to be healed more during sustained damage where they were constantly taking yellow levels of damage. Which would make them the opposite of a Warrior tank now, in a lot of ways. But the fact is, there is nothing a BrM does now that is better than other tanks. We take even more damage than the other leather tanks, because we have a single damage reduction ability. Our self heal is almost non-existent. We basically have no ability to survive in rough content if healers are disabled or delayed, which is something every other tank in the game can do. Even our "Oh crap" cooldown (on a 7 minute timer, no less, fairly certain the longest in the game) is completely underwhelming in anything approaching progression content.

If they want us to be a class that takes damage and needs healing, then the fix would be to give Tiger Palm a 10% chance to make Effuse an instant cast, and then make Effuse crits proc Gift of the Ox. Yes, it's RNG, but because we are a damage smoothing class, we have time to wait for a little RNG. And it would help us in world content, allowing us a better option for doing elite quests like every other tank can.

But you cant just spam purify though. If your attempting to keep 100% uptime on ISB your going to have a limited number of purifys at your disposal. Our big cooldown is not a 7 minute cooldown if your tanking stuff. On that note, I do not like this interaction at all. Fortifying brew should not be lowered by keg smash or jab and needs a base cooldown of 2-3 minutes. We are actively punished like no other tanks if we are unable to attack for any reason (running between pulls, RP event during an encounter, running away to soak something, etc). Yet another poor design decision on their part, cramming the class fantasy down our throats in place of smooth, fun gameplay.



We desperately need guard back in some form.