Downsizing for Heroics and building up for Mythics!!

[SupremeShield23]

Hello everyone on the forums. I have a question to ask to anyone willing to help me out! I'm running a guild and after two weeks we are not ready for mythic content due to our current roster. I want to get a core group of players right now and downsize the raid size so we can just build up to the 20 man raids. Right now we have 2 tanks (Warrior & DK) and 3 healers (Druid, Monk, and Pally) Any advice is appreciated!

[Larynx]

You'll want another healer.

[SupremeShield23]

till we are mythic ready can do with 3 healers and downsize the dps till we gte another healer??

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bump!

for advise

- - - Updated - - -

bump!

for advise

[Larynx]

Well, yeah. You can downsize to probably 15 people with 3 healers in heroic. More if the healers are good.

[Deleted]

Recruit a lot, for mythic progress you will want 2 main tanks and 1 dps with geared and practiced tanks specc, since a few fights are commonly three tanked and it is good to have the option. Also try to have 5 healers and 18 dps available, just because people are not always going to show up/ it gives you flexibility in benching people having a bad night, or playing a class/spec that doesn't perform well on a certain fight.

Sure, you can go comfortably with 2/3/10 for heroic. If your healers are well geared and capable maybe even 2/3/12, but if your goal is mythic, the most important thing is recruitment of enough capable players to actually do it.

[Deleted]

Not ready due to your current roster but you want to downsize to prepare?

I've been raid leading since the start of BRF and turned our guild around from sub 2500 rankings to a little inside the top 1000 in HFC. Not the most successful, but I was able to oversee a fairly dramatic turn around in fortunes. To an extent I'd say you have to be prepared to accept you're not going to pull up any trees in Emerald Nightmare now. If you have enough players to be going mythic you need to look at how you can improve what you have to get it to a level that works in mythic. This is going to be the hardest challenge.

Accept that realistically right now, players capable of 4/5 mythic EN won't be that likely to apply to your guild. Recruiting the players you want is going to be very difficult in general if you don't have a track record and well-established feel. If you downsize to 15 you then need to recruit around 10 mythic quality raiders, or 66% of your current roster you may feel is ready for mythic again. Which is incredibly tough.

Decide on a philosophy for the guild, how you're going to go about things without making grandiose promises. If you promise those 15 or so you feel are ready they're going to be 7/7m EN in a month, in 6 weeks etc and you don't achieve you're finished. EN should be your foundation builder, aim to kill a couple of things on mythic. Aim to get some extra bodies in, and gradually let players filter down who aren't what you need any longer.

There's a lot that can help you recruit as well though, personally I'm a big fan of not making the recruitment form huge. For my raid team its like "What do you want to tell us about yourself?", "Character", "Do you have any logs?", "Tick the raid times you can make". You can test people on their ability to read MMO, to read icy-veins or their ability to read posts from a theorycrafter on whatever site. It means very little. Let them tell you what they feel is important (this is the biggest filter for me, since mythic raiders will already know what you want to know to a large extent), all you need is their character name & class and you can do some digging of your own on warcraft logs & wowprogress to see what you want to look for.

Finally I would just stress actually go mythic with what you have, rather than looking to build up to it. If you get a mythic nythendra kill meanwhile 4/5 other guilds (on your server) are sitting at 7/7 heroic looking to build their mythic team you can recruit from them much easier to show you're already doing what they aspire to. There is always far too many guilds who cap out at heroic clears, looking to go mythic and never do for one reason or another (which is a very different thing from guilds who are only looking to do heroic, these are separate entities entirely). These guilds are mythic feeder guilds, it's unfortunate but you shouldn't feel bad for recruiting from them because they tend to be the guilds that suffer the biggest brain drain when they never make that step up.

It's tragic the amount of players end up drifting away because they were promised something big by a GM/raid leader who never quite has a plan for delivering and they want to raid mythic but never get to and feel too far behind now to get into mythic so they just stop playing. That actual mythic progress, even if its just 1 or 2 bosses is enough to entice those with the mythic raiding desire.

Heroic guilds who only aspire to heroic aren't your main recruiting grounds though so always look for the distinction between the two.

[Deleted]

Yes you can, it should be like 1 healer per 5 ppl, or 1 healer per 4 non-healers.
So 15 ppl total in raid.

Your Tank setup is OK-ish. Best tier is Warr/Druid/Pala > Monk=>DK=>DH. Due to DK being reactive tank, but if he is good np.
Heal setup is great. Try to get shaman or priest. Shamans are great for progress (some guilds even run double resto) due to mastery and toolkit. However Holy is solid, and i wont be surprised to see discipline shine again in future. Here is player>class more important! If you can have 2 beast MW or restos bring them.

DPS: Well this will be probably the most important part, you can see stacking mages/ shadow priests/ hunters and rogues in top guilds. So if you have like 3 good mages or 3 good SPriests etc.. dont be affraid to bring them.

You can see current performance in mythic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

And performance on mythic Xavius:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

Some inspiration:
# DPS: 14
# Ranged: 8-10x
Mage 2-3x
Priest 2-3x
Hunter 2-3x
Lock 1x
Balance: optional

# Melee: 4-6x
Rogue 2x
Monk

Enha/Feral/War/DH/DK/Retri

# Example:
Tanks: Warrior, Pala
Healers: Pala, Druid, Monk, Shaman
Ranged: 3xMage, 2xPriest (1xHeal OS), 2xHunter, 1xLock,
Melee: 2xRogue, DK/Pala/War (Tank OS), Monk, Enha, Feral/DH

Cloth: 6
Leather: 6
Mail: 4
Plate: 4

[Kirbypro]

DPS are a dime a dozen, you can probably invite pug dps easily for early mythic bosses.

You need 2 main tanks, 1 reliable off tank. You need 4 main healers, and 2 reliable off heals.

You don't want to cancel a raid night because one of your tanks or one of your healers has RL stuff and you can't 1 tank or 3 heal mythics.

[InkarnateKT]

Not going to speak on downsizing for heroic because everyone already has.

For Mythic your roster should be at least:

2 tanks + 1 mythic capable offspec
5 healers + 1 mythic capable offspec
15 DPS

This is because some fights will be easier with 5 healers ( and some with 6 ), especially later in progress when your dps is more capable. And because you don't want to cancel a raid because 1 healer or 1 Tank doesnt show up

[Riistov]

Yes you can, it should be like 1 healer per 5 ppl, or 1 healer per 4 non-healers.
So 15 ppl total in raid.

Your Tank setup is OK-ish. Best tier is Warr/Druid/Pala > Monk=>DK=>DH. Due to DK being reactive tank, but if he is good np.
Heal setup is great. Try to get shaman or priest. Shamans are great for progress (some guilds even run double resto) due to mastery and toolkit. However Holy is solid, and i wont be surprised to see discipline shine again in future. Here is player>class more important! If you can have 2 beast MW or restos bring them.

DPS: Well this will be probably the most important part, you can see stacking mages/ shadow priests/ hunters and rogues in top guilds. So if you have like 3 good mages or 3 good SPriests etc.. dont be affraid to bring them.

You can see current performance in mythic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

And performance on mythic Xavius:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

Some inspiration:
# DPS: 14
# Ranged: 8-10x
Mage 2-3x
Priest 2-3x
Hunter 2-3x
Lock 1x
Balance: optional

# Melee: 4-6x
Rogue 2x
Monk

Enha/Feral/War/DH/DK/Retri

# Example:
Tanks: Warrior, Pala
Healers: Pala, Druid, Monk, Shaman
Ranged: 3xMage, 2xPriest (1xHeal OS), 2xHunter, 1xLock,
Melee: 2xRogue, DK/Pala/War (Tank OS), Monk, Enha, Feral/DH

Cloth: 6
Leather: 6
Mail: 4
Plate: 4

For anyone outside the top 100 guilds, stacking certain classes is pointless. Metas too easily change, and most raiders who aren't raiding in a top 100 environment are not going to be able/willing to re-roll based on what the current meta is (which is going to change again in 7.1). For most mid level guilds, you will get much further by recruiting good players, not classes.