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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodakhun View Post
    "Outgearing" isn't a thing in Legion, and you still don't understand that. Your only answers so far have been "this is bad, and that is bad too" and you don't even try to make sense.
    Ilevel is all that matters in Legion PVP template system so yeah you can be outgeared.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    I'm a little sad to hear this. I am a casual (but not terrible) pvp'er who's usually in the 1800-2k range when i actually play.

    The thing for me is that legion has SO much good PvE content that i've barely touched PvP this expansion yet. I am planning to in the near future. I'm sure there are A LOT of people in this boat.
    Try it, but you will quickly learn we are not being hyperbolic about it. Sometimes it takes people experiencing to understand what people who have already experienced it are complaining all of sudden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shraug View Post
    Currently, there are more RBG teams than WoD, so it is fluctuating.
    Really? Probably most of those are the scumlords/no-lifers that have been there since MoP and ddos and scripting. One team I used to play with on Fri. nights can't fill their empty slots in any reasonable amount of time since after the first week of the season. So they just bail. From what they tell me there are maybe half a dozen teams or less queuing at any given time, other than carries. They'd like me to buy Legion and level up, or roll a healer that they need.

    I said when Blizz fixes RBG and a catch-up mech, or when donkeys fly - whichever comes first.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-10-13 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #83
    i gave up on pvp in wow haha i just play overwatch
    Quote Originally Posted by BigSuze View Post
    You've mistakenly made the assumption that I'm not capable of buying MORE poutine.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodakhun View Post
    Already refuted everything he said, you guys keep spewing the same "ladder collapse, blizzard won't allow me to stomp noobs anymore waaa" bullshit.
    No, you didn't. Youve never done anything other than say "nuh uh" or the equivalent and resort to rampant ad-hominem attacks.

  5. #85
    [QUOTE=Vodakhun;42713038]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Participation in rated PVP is at an all time low and will continue to drop. This is the start of the end of Holinka's dream.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Source? Let me guess, your ass?
    Great comment lol

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    I'm a little sad to hear this. I am a casual (but not terrible) pvp'er who's usually in the 1800-2k range when i actually play.

    The thing for me is that legion has SO much good PvE content that i've barely touched PvP this expansion yet. I am planning to in the near future. I'm sure there are A LOT of people in this boat.
    Please don't listen yo Mafic and Caolela, they're just blindly hating on everything WoW related all day. Try it yourself and see if you enjoy it, there's tons of people enjoying pvp right now in Legion, myself included.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Rewards matter. This is an RPG. People need carrots. Nobody's going to PvP for "fun" outside the people who push and then whine their rewards aren't cool enough anyways.
    I've gotten better gear and vanity stuff from world quests than I would putting days of progression into the ladder. Screw that.
    +100 spot on.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodakhun View Post
    Please don't listen yo Mafic and Caolela, they're just blindly hating on everything WoW related all day. Try it yourself and see if you enjoy it, there's tons of people enjoying pvp right now in Legion, myself included.
    Oh please...PLEASE don't...I said PLEASE!!!

    For christsakes can you kids ever get an original thought into your fucking heads or do you just go along with all of the sheep-like net memes?

    Thinking is hard.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-10-16 at 04:23 AM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Oh please...PLEASE don't...I said PLEASE!!!

    For christsakes can you kids ever get an original thought into your fucking heads or do you just go along with all of the sheep-like net memes?

    Thinking is hard.
    That's exactly what I'm saying, that they should stop listening to retarded trolls like you and actually play the game and decide for themselves. You aren't even playing, and the other troll isn't either. "No fly no buy" LOL

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodakhun View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying, that they should stop listening to retarded trolls like you and actually play the game and decide for themselves. You aren't even playing, and the other troll isn't either. "No fly no buy" LOL
    But I am playing, just not at 110. One doesn't have to to see how bad Legion is for PvP. It's quite obvious.

  11. #91
    I came back to try some pvp because I'll never have the time again. I want to progress my toon by doing PVP and not PVE. BGs should matter. Players need a reason to keep coming back. Gear has been the traditional reason. In WoW, the tradition has been the best players get rewarded more quickly, but the scrubs catch up if they ar diligent. That is no longer the case.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres."

  12. #92
    PvP at the moment is a complete and utter waste of time.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Vodakhun View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying, that they should stop listening to retarded trolls like you and actually play the game and decide for themselves. You aren't even playing, and the other troll isn't either. "No fly no buy" LOL
    I watched Holinka spend more time talking about other games on twitter instead of addressing Legion alpha PVP problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Turbotef's Avatar
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    Only doing PVP until I get my pvp skin (except for WQ pvp) and playing FFXIV PVP(superior solo queue personal progression system) on the side.

    Hearthstone has better PVP than this garbage we have now.
    Nintendo Switch FC - SW-0839-0702-0798 Steam - Mecha Meow
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by bt4 View Post
    It's like you never played a bg before. Half of the bg used to be bots before pvp participation went into nirvana. Probably can still find on youtube videos of full bot groups from cataclysm.
    100% of the bgs are bots now though. So your point is invalid.

    There is zero correlation between botting, and character progression helping ladders while removing character progression destroying ladders.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  16. #96
    Regarding ladder collapse / not collapse:

    I don't know if there's a ladder collapse, but there are definitely less people PVPing than in previous expansions.

    Here is the first page for the EU RBG ladder in Legion:

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/ru-ru/ga.../battlegrounds

    Here is the same page from MoP, two months after its launch, same as Legion is now:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20121109...battlegrounds/

    Note how the rating for #50 in Legion is 2560, and the rating for #50 in MoP, after the same amount of time since launch, is 2829.

    What does this mean? Well, this means that the number of players participating in RBG in MoP was significantly higher than in Legion. Imagine the ladder like a pyramid with high ratings on top and low ratings at the bottom. The pyramid in MoP was so much bigger that its top was 300 MMR higher. Given that the base is not at zero, but at 1500, this is quite a difference.

    See the picture:



    Now, it's kind of expected that there would be significantly less people PVPing in Legion than in MoP, right? We know that the game lost a lot of subs. But that gives you some perspective as to how much was lost - we are at 60% of MoP numbers now. And it shows how much the great attempts from Blizzard to make PVP friendlier to everyone helped - they haven't helped, in fact, they probably made things worse, because their last published number of subs was 5.5 mil, if this more or less held to the release, we should have had a launch spike to like 7-7.5 mil, judging from player activity, and so the PVP ladder should have been 70%-75% of MoP's 10 mil, yet it is only 60%.

    So, things are indeed, pretty bad. Both long-term and short-term.

    And now a personal anecdote which illustrates what this translates to in regular player experience:

    A couple of my friends whom I knew for a long time decided to get back to Legion after quitting in the middle of WoD / some quit early. They were always into PVP, but never the stars - playing for fun, etc. Their ratings in MoP were floating around 2k. In Legion, two things have changed for them (their words): (a) the number of different teams they queue into got reduced significantly, they keep queuing into the same guys, and (b) their rating now floats around 2300, not 2000 - because there is little competition.

    /shrug

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post

    Actually, queue times are already a pretty good indicator, and then the rampant mismatching (because after a while the game matches you even if no one in your rating range is available).

    Ladder is collapsing.

    People can't seem to understand that "PvP for PvPs sake" has literally -never- worked in this game... or any MMO. (Other than maybe EVE, and even then.. its not just for PvPs sake - its for griefing, or territory, or economics..). People who want to PvP just to PvP already do that in other games designed around that.

    People playing a progression based MMO want progression.

    There is no meaningful progression in PvP for about ~85% of the people playing - period. That's just simple math. (It's actually like.. 81.2% or something? I really dont feel like doing the math). That's just how a pyramidal ladder system works. It doesn't matter if there are a million people on the ladder, or 1000 - 80-some percent of them WILL NOT EVER BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE HIGH ENOUGH RATING TO GET GEAR above the 840 floor.

    Period. Full stop.

    Previous to this, people could eventually get the gear. Now, they NEVER WILL. They literally CANT.

    They can get better gear from World Quests. I'm already at close to 860 and havent even stepped foot into a raid, heroic dungeon, mythic dungeon, BG or Arena - not even a skirm or random BG.

    And this is from a guy who for about 10 1/2 years of WoW almost exclusively PvPed casually and enjoyed it, and managed to keep my character relevant and progressing at all times. Get home do some random BGs, get a few CQ points (or, back when Honor gear was only 12 iLevels/1 tier behind CQ gear and iLevel wasnt vastly inflated) or Honor, get some gear, log out.

    Cant do that anymore. Literally gets me nothing.

    Ergo, im not on the ladder, not even "for points" (as i did sometimes if i wanted to speed up CQ aquisition over random BG wins). And there are a LOT of people like me.

    WHich causes.. you guessed it...

    Ladder collapse.
    I agree 100%.

    People playing a progression based MMO want.... progression.

    Rating, e-sport, fun, equal gear, removing the grind all these noble ideas won't cut it. For the average player, that fills up the ladder sport for the rest to play against, there needs to be a progression, gear based, carrot on a stick. as simple as that.

    EDIT: And I hate to be the, "I told you so" type of prophet when I was crying and arguing to not remove progression from PVP against the trend.
    Last edited by Kreeshak; 2016-10-19 at 11:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A Daily quest is about as much effort as organizing 20 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I agree 100%.

    People playing a progression based MMO want.... progression.

    Rating, e-sport, fun, equal gear, removing the grind all these noble ideas won't cut it. For the average player, that fills up the ladder sport for the rest to play against, there needs to be a progression, gear based, carrot on a stick. as simple as that.

    EDIT: And I hate to be the, "I told you so" type of prophet when I was crying and arguing to not remove progression from PVP against the trend.
    I agree as well.

    Personally I am willing to do PVP with no progression but most players play a MMORPG for progression. And that progression is through gearing in WoW. Enchants and gemming was removed from player control and gearing process in Legion is way too RNG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    100% of the bgs are bots now though. So your point is invalid.

    There is zero correlation between botting, and character progression helping ladders while removing character progression destroying ladders.
    Neither of your statements make sense even ingoring that your 100% bots hyperbole is not even true.

    Botting is done to skip grind so it correlates directly with the ammount of grind present. If there is no grind to get viable for arenas pure arena players wouldn't have a reason to bot bg's in the first place. That people bot shows that they have no interest in playing that progression grind. Now the crucial thing: Not everyone bots. What does that mean? People with no desire to bot will either choose to endure it or quit. So the existence of botting showcases a larger group that has no interest in progression grind and is unwilling to endure that.

    You can circlejerk with the other 2 people here how progression is good but it doesn't validate your opinion that most want to grind in pvp.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I agree as well.

    Personally I am willing to do PVP with no progression but most players play a MMORPG for progression. And that progression is through gearing in WoW. Enchants and gemming was removed from player control and gearing process in Legion is way too RNG.
    I disagree.

    Gear grinds in PvP have no meaning unless they're tied to actual rating. Which is what we have now, the sub 1500 shitbads just need to put spells on their bars.

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