[Balance] Buff?

[Myztikrice]

Snapshotting isn't coming back. It's a mechanic that was removed globally across all classes.

Long story short - Snapshotting creates an environment where the player can be "punished" for long periods of time for split-second mistakes. Missing DoT refreshes during trinket procs, or failing to clear & re-gain empowerment stacks during 10stack focused lightning happens within 1-3 seconds, but the lasting impact on your DPS can be 30+ seconds. Considering 95%+ of the playerbase fails to execute optimal snapshotting, it's not a mechanic that meshes well and produces a good gameplay experience.

It still exists for Feral

[kavousanos]

Our dots are weak. Thats whole problem and yes we should be gods on dot fights. If Spec with 3 dots is not god on dots fight then its retard design.

Dots are weak? So the do-all class, the guys doing 2mill crits with their artifact power and 400+ DPS ST aldo wants to be dot gods.. funny you should say that. Because the DOT ONLY pure dps class cannot pull higher than 300 ST. Warlocks affliction, might have heard of them. Rumours have it that some even play the spec right now..

[Myztikrice]

Our DoTs being our top damage doesn't mean dots aren't weak.

[Madus]

Dots are weak? So the do-all class, the guys doing 2mill crits with their artifact power and 400+ DPS ST aldo wants to be dot gods.. funny you should say that. Because the DOT ONLY pure dps class cannot pull higher than 300 ST. Warlocks affliction, might have heard of them. Rumours have it that some even play the spec right now..

Its not about dmg nor 3mil crits its all about design. If class have 3 dots it should be able to do Dot damage, if not then its wrong design and those dots should be removed or their count reduced. Btw is not Afli like best performing warlock spec right now? based on dps standings...

[xtramuscle]

But with the game being designed around those 95% the other 5% can do incredible things. A bit like dks, ww monks and even dh now. The average player did well when they were all added, the exceptional player can achieve ridiculous results

[ChickenChaser]

Dots are weak? So the do-all class, the guys doing 2mill crits with their artifact power and 400+ DPS ST aldo wants to be dot gods.. funny you should say that. Because the DOT ONLY pure dps class cannot pull higher than 300 ST. Warlocks affliction, might have heard of them. Rumours have it that some even play the spec right now..

what are you smoking cause i want some

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=80

Show me where druids are doing good single target? There are outlier logs yes and a druid with the 2 BIS legendaries can do 400k yes... But a Warrior with the 2 BIS legiondaries can do 500k a spriest 600k.... Your acting like 400k is some big thing......

We are below middle of the pack single target and even worse in AOE. we are almost dead last of ranged on Mythic dragons a fight druids should excell on...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...854&dataset=90

[humjack]

is it fun to play boomkin in pvp (rbg and 2v2 arena)? I'm so bored with my main wanna roll something fun but can't decide.

Boomkin is incredibly fun in BGs. You are an AOE king, with some occasional burst if you can get set up properly at range and not jumped on by melee.

Being an AOE glass cannon comes at a cost. Boomkin is notoriously unplayable in 2v2 arena. You will get trained by melee in every-single-match, unable to survive long enough to cast a single spell other than moonfire (a.k.a. no damage). You will have no enjoyment.

Thing is moonkins have to build up lots of energy to cast their stronger spells (well, the one strong spell, starsurge), but the only way to build up meaningful amounts of energy is to cast spells with upwards of 2-second cast times. In this expansion, melee will *never* let you cast one of these spells, so you will have virtually no energy to do anything useful. Your cc/peel also requires a cast time and is difficult to pull off. To make matters worse, when a moonkin gets kicked you get a unique "astral" spell lockout, which silences all of your spells.

Perhaps the biggest issue compared to other ranged classes is you have pretty much no innate survivability or defensive tools. In 2's, once they have blown their offensive cooldowns you will be dead, hoping your partner can pull off the 1v2 afterward. Your heals are also quite useless.

3v3 is less painful when you have more allied peel and heals to keep you alive, or so I hear.

Some of the defensive PvP talent changes on the PTR looked promising but sadly I don't see any of that made it into 7.1. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.

[wing5wong]

Boomkin is incredibly fun in BGs. You are an AOE king, with some occasional burst if you can get set up properly at range and not jumped on by melee.

Being an AOE glass cannon comes at a cost. Boomkin is notoriously unplayable in 2v2 arena. You will get trained by melee in every-single-match, unable to survive long enough to cast a single spell other than moonfire (a.k.a. no damage). You will have no enjoyment.

Thing is moonkins have to build up lots of energy to cast their stronger spells (well, the one strong spell, starsurge), but the only way to build up meaningful amounts of energy is to cast spells with upwards of 2-second cast times. In this expansion, melee will *never* let you cast one of these spells, so you will have virtually no energy to do anything useful. Your cc/peel also requires a cast time and is difficult to pull off. To make matters worse, when a moonkin gets kicked you get a unique "astral" spell lockout, which silences all of your spells.

Perhaps the biggest issue compared to other ranged classes is you have pretty much no innate survivability or defensive tools. In 2's, once they have blown their offensive cooldowns you will be dead, hoping your partner can pull off the 1v2 afterward. Your heals are also quite useless.

3v3 is less painful when you have more allied peel and heals to keep you alive, or so I hear.

3s is definitely manageable, rbgs are where we really shine with sustained AoE, as well as being able to moon kill targets.
3s vs Warrior/enhance/rshamn..... not quite so enjoyable, 0 full moons in one game, effectively locked out of all that AsP generation

Some of the defensive PvP talent changes on the PTR looked promising but sadly I don't see any of that made it into 7.1. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.

Which ones? ironfeather armor, celestial guardian are in, as well as deep roots.

[Deleted]

i would say balance druids are in a sweet spot atm.
we lack big burst DPS on both single and multi target but we easily make it up with good sustain DPS.

in terms of raiding,

the biggest punishment/hurdle to balance, at this time, is movement.
especially unpredictable movement.
since we only have 2 baseline instant cast spells, 3 if we get caught with at least 40 AP.

you'll only find yourself on the top of the DPS lists on fights like Nythendra if you get lucky and don't get targeted much/at all for Rot or the Breath.

Bloodlust is also a mayor boost in our DPs output, more so than some other classes.
so don't be surprised if you're slacking behind the DPS on failed boss attempts, only to see yourself grab 5th place on the meter when you kill the boss after a good BL phase.

in terms of Mythic+

we bring decent DPS with a unique toolkit and the higher the level of the dungeon the better we'll do in terms of output.
you'll always be out DPS'd in shorter fights, especially AoE ones.

overall, balance druids are in a really solid spot.

[Nerxyrall]

We are okay in Raids but not great. Optimaly played we are middle of the entire pack (but since most speccs arent played or played that often we get a little worse than "middle of the pack")

Mythic+ we lack burst Aoe.
Treants, Aoe silence cone are pretty unique and the first one with nectrotic extremly powerfull tools.
We can be a good 3rd dps if others bring AoE-stuns/other utility.
But like in Raids we are okayisch but not really great.

[bubbadubba]

Its not about dmg nor 3mil crits its all about design. If class have 3 dots it should be able to do Dot damage, if not then its wrong design and those dots should be removed or their count reduced. Btw is not Afli like best performing warlock spec right now? based on dps standings...

My problem with boomkin design with dots is our single target it's good but our AoE is based around it... OUR AOE IS BASED AROUND DOTS. We are not even the 'DoT' class yet we are the ones that do our AoE with DoT damage... If it was affliction I would understand, I think it is a cool idea but it is designed to ramp like crap.


Warlock specs are odd right now, affliction is strong but gear dependent. They do really well in Raids but the other two are around the same (up and down with all the buffs and nerfs). Affliction is on blizzards radar because it blows in mythic+ and people complain. Affliction will be lower on warcraft logs for a bit because you have less affliction locks. It is the same concept blizzard had with frost mages, they are not the best buuttt they look worse due to all the good mages playing fire. If they buff frost and people who are good start playing it then they might become over powered.

You wont get that with boomkin because it is the only ranged spec for druids, it is that hybrid tax taking new form. Boomkins are good in raids and decent in mythic+. You don't look to take a boomkin in mythic+. Blizzard even hinted that they knew this and people should take boomkins because of utility.

I like the regrowth change!!

- - - Updated - - -

what are you smoking cause i want some

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=80

Show me where druids are doing good single target? There are outlier logs yes and a druid with the 2 BIS legendaries can do 400k yes... But a Warrior with the 2 BIS legiondaries can do 500k a spriest 600k.... Your acting like 400k is some big thing......

We are below middle of the pack single target and even worse in AOE. we are almost dead last of ranged on Mythic dragons a fight druids should excell on...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...854&dataset=90

I am actually frustrated because we pugged a boomkin last night in our raid. I was beating him single target each attempt by a lot. What frustrated me is that the times he caught up to me was because he got an extra incarnation due to having a legendary. One wipe he was ahead of me by a little bit, almost neck and neck with numbers, I checked my uptime on incarnation of 15%, his uptime was 30% and I still had about 1.15 minutes on my CD still.

I was a really salty person before and I thought I got over that, I wasn't getting to worked up about the legendaries until I saw a good legendary in the works. I got this stupid chest that increases my range by 2.5 yards and reduces damage taken, should be happy I got one and I was content with it until now. What is even more frustrating was I was beating the guy in all aspect but it still bothered me that he came close on some attempts.

- - - Updated - - -

Boomkin is incredibly fun in BGs. You are an AOE king, with some occasional burst if you can get set up properly at range and not jumped on by melee.

Being an AOE glass cannon comes at a cost. Boomkin is notoriously unplayable in 2v2 arena. You will get trained by melee in every-single-match, unable to survive long enough to cast a single spell other than moonfire (a.k.a. no damage). You will have no enjoyment.

Thing is moonkins have to build up lots of energy to cast their stronger spells (well, the one strong spell, starsurge), but the only way to build up meaningful amounts of energy is to cast spells with upwards of 2-second cast times. In this expansion, melee will *never* let you cast one of these spells, so you will have virtually no energy to do anything useful. Your cc/peel also requires a cast time and is difficult to pull off. To make matters worse, when a moonkin gets kicked you get a unique "astral" spell lockout, which silences all of your spells.

Perhaps the biggest issue compared to other ranged classes is you have pretty much no innate survivability or defensive tools. In 2's, once they have blown their offensive cooldowns you will be dead, hoping your partner can pull off the 1v2 afterward. Your heals are also quite useless.

3v3 is less painful when you have more allied peel and heals to keep you alive, or so I hear.

Some of the defensive PvP talent changes on the PTR looked promising but sadly I don't see any of that made it into 7.1. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.

I have not PVPed and decided not to because I feel I wouldn't do well as a boomkin.

[Dahti]

If you want to get salty, I have <18 hours /played at 110, ilevel 849, and I got that ring in LFR last night.

Took my Dk 17 days played to get the shield neck...

[bubbadubba]

If you want to get salty, I have <18 hours /played at 110, ilevel 849, and I got that ring in LFR last night.

Took my Dk 17 days played to get the shield neck...

You got the CD ring or the other ring ? Yeah I just got my legendary half a week ago and it was the chest, I had to check if the chest was better then my 860 chest I had... I shouldn't be doing that with a legendary.

My alt got one before my main as well.

[xpose]

Boomkin is in a pretty shit state if you don't have a legendary. The helmet is a game changer but its not like it will boost your dps to the #1 spot. We had a fire mage doing 500k dps on H Xavius last week rocking two BIS legendaries. We wouldn't get close to that even if we had the INC ring.

[Dahti]

I got the INC ring, not enough gear (or AP) to get much out of it. Think I have 13 points in the scythe and get AK1 today.

[Commandor]

i would say balance druids are in a sweet spot atm.
we lack big burst DPS on both single and multi target but we easily make it up with good sustain DPS.

in terms of raiding,

the biggest punishment/hurdle to balance, at this time, is movement.
especially unpredictable movement.
since we only have 2 baseline instant cast spells, 3 if we get caught with at least 40 AP.

you'll only find yourself on the top of the DPS lists on fights like Nythendra if you get lucky and don't get targeted much/at all for Rot or the Breath.

Bloodlust is also a mayor boost in our DPs output, more so than some other classes.
so don't be surprised if you're slacking behind the DPS on failed boss attempts, only to see yourself grab 5th place on the meter when you kill the boss after a good BL phase.

in terms of Mythic+

we bring decent DPS with a unique toolkit and the higher the level of the dungeon the better we'll do in terms of output.
you'll always be out DPS'd in shorter fights, especially AoE ones.

overall, balance druids are in a really solid spot.

Based on what are you stating your claim we are in a sweet spot? Because we are defnitely in the lower 50% percentile of the 24 DPS specs in WoW. That is not even remotely considered in a sweet spot.

[MV Kaa]

Based on what are you stating your claim we are in a sweet spot? Because we are defnitely in the lower 50% percentile of the 24 DPS specs in WoW. That is not even remotely considered in a sweet spot.

Right, and movement isnt even an issue for us anymore since we can just build up SS, even better with the helm. But still, out dps is still lacking. The fact that I can get a world 10 rank in mythic and mages in my raid can do almost the same dps than me and get rank 800 just shows how big the gap is.

[Kilma]

Doesn't it seem kinda silly that we seem to be balanced around legendaries? So people that are just unlucky will never be competitive in the long term just because they didn't have THAT legendary drop?

It's actually like that for many other classes too. I hate this legendary system.

[Myztikrice]

Boomkin is in a pretty shit state if you don't have a legendary. The helmet is a game changer but its not like it will boost your dps to the #1 spot. We had a fire mage doing 500k dps on H Xavius last week rocking two BIS legendaries. We wouldn't get close to that even if we had the INC ring.

You can definitely get those numbers with double damage debuffs

[humjack]

Which ones? ironfeather armor, celestial guardian are in, as well as deep roots.

Oh, right on! I had posted that before actually playing in 7.1 live.

I guess Blizzard has a new policy of not mentioning massive class balance changes in the patch notes.

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't it seem kinda silly that we seem to be balanced around legendaries? So people that are just unlucky will never be competitive in the long term just because they didn't have THAT legendary drop?

It's actually like that for many other classes too. I hate this legendary system.

I completely agree. Feels like they are giving WoW the Diablo 3 treatment.