Documentary: Why are thin people not fat?

[Ghostpanther]

Genetics of course plays a role. But there are more over weight people now than ever. This mostly can be explained by improved access to food and the lack of the need to burn calories in order to survive. It is too easy today to be lazy. I do not mean this is the case with all people however.

[belfpala]

Two different bodies use energy differently. Hard concept, I know. But you aren't the same as each other or you'd be twins.

So it's not as simple as "energy in, energy out" then?

[Fasc]

It's not as complicated as you think to eat a proper vegan/vegetarian diet. "Appropriately planned" could be said about any diet really... most people don't eat appropriately planned omnivorous diets. All the essential amino acids can be obtained from plant based alternatives by the way.

Eating a generic and typical level of variety that includes meat will achieve a broad spectrum of nutrients with only a few gaps. Doing the exact same thing minus any animal/meat products puts you in a FAR worse position nutritionally. This is why you absolutely need a dietitian to pull off a decent vegan diet because you can't just eat extra carrots and spinach and soy to replace meats and cheeses. Now as to what's missing or likely to stay subpar even if you try...

Vitamin A: In animal products, your body directly uses. In beta-carotene form, you need bile salts to convert it in the body which means you need fat in your diet (something often avoided or under consumed in vegan diets) and you need about 5-6 times the beta-carotene to get your Vitamin A.

Vitamin B12: This doesn't exist in plant form in any way you can actually absorb. If you're drinking B12 fortified soy milk, congrats you're breaking your vegan diet ideology.

Vitamin D3: Another animal only nutrient. Even if you're sun bathing regularly, it isn't nearly as good and has that whole cancer component.

Protein/Zinc: These can be both found in legumes but you need quite a bit, there are digestion issues with many of them, and even with vegans who actually seek out quinoa and tempeh still have lower than necessary protein and zinc levels. Complete amino acid chains in animals products are simply better.

Carnosine: Non-essential but absolutely of benefit to the upkeep of the body and found only in meat products.

Omega-3/6: Most of the flaunted plant sources only get part of these, notably the Omega-3's that are in fish only. Yes, there are seaweed species with it but it isn't absorbed by the body so supplementing with those seaweed species has nil effect.

Not many average persons are seeking out quinoa or chia to mix up with soy, and as far as most surveyed vegans are concerned, they aren't eating ANY of these with any regularity. If you really REALLY want to avoid animal products of any kind, you will be vitamin deficient

Fair enough but humans were hunters and gatherers, with an emphasis on gatherers. The bulk of our diet wasn't meat. We don't digest meat that well. Also, just because something is natural and our ancestors did it, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing to do now.

We digest meats just fine. There are a wide variety of plants we definitely do NOT digest well by comparison... we don't need 18oz rib-eyes but that's not justification for no meat at all.

Anyways I don't really want to get into a debate, I think we have betters things to do. I initially just wanted to reply to the guy who said vegan diets aren't healthy.

They aren't.

[OperationFerret]

Because they don't drink as much soda, man. That's literally it.

[aysatsana]

Eating a generic and typical level of variety that includes meat will achieve a broad spectrum of nutrients with only a few gaps. Doing the exact same thing minus any animal/meat products puts you in a FAR worse position nutritionally. This is why you absolutely need a dietitian to pull off a decent vegan diet because you can't just eat extra carrots and spinach and soy to replace meats and cheeses. Now as to what's missing or likely to stay subpar even if you try...

Vitamin A: In animal products, your body directly uses. In beta-carotene form, you need bile salts to convert it in the body which means you need fat in your diet (something often avoided or under consumed in vegan diets) and you need about 5-6 times the beta-carotene to get your Vitamin A.

Vitamin B12: This doesn't exist in plant form in any way you can actually absorb. If you're drinking B12 fortified soy milk, congrats you're breaking your vegan diet ideology.

Vitamin D3: Another animal only nutrient. Even if you're sun bathing regularly, it isn't nearly as good and has that whole cancer component.

Protein/Zinc: These can be both found in legumes but you need quite a bit, there are digestion issues with many of them, and even with vegans who actually seek out quinoa and tempeh still have lower than necessary protein and zinc levels. Complete amino acid chains in animals products are simply better.

Carnosine: Non-essential but absolutely of benefit to the upkeep of the body and found only in meat products.

Omega-3/6: Most of the flaunted plant sources only get part of these, notably the Omega-3's that are in fish only. Yes, there are seaweed species with it but it isn't absorbed by the body so supplementing with those seaweed species has nil effect.

Not many average persons are seeking out quinoa or chia to mix up with soy, and as far as most surveyed vegans are concerned, they aren't eating ANY of these with any regularity. If you really REALLY want to avoid animal products of any kind, you will be vitamin deficient


We digest meats just fine. There are a wide variety of plants we definitely do NOT digest well by comparison... we don't need 18oz rib-eyes but that's not justification for no meat at all.



They aren't.

Fucking hell the ignorance in this post. Where are your links? I can link this a million times yet you idiots don't read it. "Aren't healthy?" how about you read the science on it? Why do you think vegan diets are some complex thing to follow? Every vegan I've known and vegan youtubers I watch are healthier than 99% of the population and their diet isn't rocket science. Lots of vegetables, fruits, legumes, rice and soy products. You will easily get all your nutrients (and way more nutrients than the average meat eater) from this except for maybe B12, which can be supplemented. Inb4 "well you need supplements for your diet!" Guess what? The B12 you get from meat is because the animals themselves are supplemented/injected with it. I also take D3, but most people should take that anyways especially if you're from Canada like me.

People who go vegan and only eat fruits all day or stupid shit like that give it a bad name, but if you're not retarded you will eat a proper vegan diet.

Where the fuck did you pull all these "can't be absorbed by us" nonsense? Also, the human body doesn't digest meat that well. Red meat takes 10+ hours to digest. I know a lot of athletes that only steak on weekends because of this, I mean it's really not rocket science. Lentils for example digest way more efficiently than meat.


http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html
"Plant-based nutrition has exploded in popularity, and many advantages have been well documented over the past several decades.1 Not only is there a broad expansion of the research database supporting the myriad benefits of plant-based diets, but also health care practitioners are seeing awe-inspiring results with their patients across multiple unique subspecialties. Plant-based diets have been associated with lowering overall and ischemic heart disease mortality2; supporting sustainable weight management3; reducing medication needs4-6; lowering the risk for most chronic diseases7,8; decreasing the incidence and severity of high-risk conditions, including obesity,9 hypertension,10 hyperlipidemia,11 and hyperglycemia;11 and even possibly reversing advanced coronary artery disease12,13 and type 2 diabetes.6"

Respected medical organizations and doctors: "all evidence points to vegan diets being healthy as fuck"

Some moron on mmo champion "they aren't healthy"

You can either go out there and inform yourself (just spend like an hour searching pubmed about vegan diets) or stay ignorant and come up with bullshit arguments out of your ass. The confirmation bias is real. Next thing you know you're going to tell me plants have feelings and its cruel to eat them!

Please do me a favor and read this http://www.thepermanentejournal.org/...6192-diet.html (the thing I linked above)

It's funny how all you people saying vegan diets aren't healthy havn't linked a single recent peer reviewed paper saying that, you just pull that info out of your ass. Too many people pretend to know it all in nutrtition

[Fasc]

Fucking hell the ignorance in this post.

Irony.

The B12 you get from meat is because the animals themselves are supplemented/injected with it.

Bwahahahahaha...

Bro do you even science? Bacteria and archaea are the only things capable of synthesizing B12 but if you believe that's the end of it, you're absolutely moronic if you think we're INJECTING animals with this bacteria hahaha. Bacterial symbiosis... it's a thing that humans definitely have (see acidophilus for example) and is why meat, whether it is freshly hunted game or factory raised has loads of B12.

I also take D3, but most people should take that anyways especially if you're from Canada like me.

Then you're not much of a vegan if you're supplementing with D3. /snicker

Every vegan I've known and vegan youtubers I watch are healthier than 99% of the population and their diet isn't rocket science.

/cackle

Mostly because the average fad vegan follower simply cuts meat and cheese out, they don't actually add more to round out the myriad of deficiencies. But you believe your fictions...

Respected medical organizations and doctors: "all evidence points to vegan diets being healthy as fuck"

I notice you didn't say nutritionists or dietitians. Doctors don't take nutrition courses anywhere near the level of even undergrad of the aforementioned studies, if at all. Also your nonsense about absorption of meat needs a citation because you're just claiming because some vegan blog said X is in Y food, you as a human can clearly 100% absorb it. It isn't rocket science at all to understand the difference in absorption between incomplete amino acid chains and complete amino acid chains. It is basic biochemistry stuff.

As for your repeated insistence that a study in the "humanities of medicine" journal says differently from dietetics... okay. I never said a vegan can't possibly be healthy, just that most don't actually follow a solid diet and think because they aren't FAT they're somehow healthy. It isn't the same thing by a long shot. No different than pointing to some marathon runner who is in the top 100 runners in the world who has horrendous eating habits being likely very unhealthy... his achievements in running don't deflect or absolve him from the ravages of nutrient deficiencies.

But looking at your linked "guide" something stuck out to me:

"Chemical contaminants formed from high temperature cooking of cooked animal products: When flesh is cooked, compounds called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,27 heterocyclic amines,28 and advanced glycation end products29 are formed. These compounds are carcinogenic, pro-inflammatory, pro-oxidative, and contributive to chronic disease."

/cackle

You can't just give doctors a "guide" and call ALL cooked meats carcinogenic. Smoking or overly charbroiling meat can deposit PAH onto the food, but it isn't from the meat itself, it is from the smoke/ash. This is why dietitians advise against smoking/charbroiled meat. This doesn't mean other forms of "high temperature cooked" meat is suddenly evil as well. That'd be retarded. Furthermore, the majority of meat consumed isn't open flame or smoked where PAH's are created (again because of the wood/coal burn, not the meat itself) so this is a moronic point to add entirely.

Then you have a line about the "evils" of carnitine despite the health BENEFITS of consuming it, and the only thing this guide does is say it causes problems when over consumed (which is true about literally everything).

Then there's the antibiotics in animals causing superbugs and diseased TWO MILLION people with only a link to the generic antibiotic study by the CDC which only states there MAY be a link between food based antibiotics and resistance with humans... /snicker

Oh and the line about iron is just laughable! They turn the most common deficiency in vegan diets into a negative against evil meat consumers because excess can cause problems! HAHAHA

Hoooooly crap vegans are an impressionable lot.

[Dug]

Thin people trying to gain weight and claiming they "eat a lot", assuming they don't have some sort of issue that would actually prevent weight gain, are full of shit. Just as overweight people who say they don't "eat that much" yet never lose weight but just keep gaining it.

Both need to sit down and really look at what they're eating in a day. One gigantic meal consisting of 1400 calories a day is not "a lot". A snack along with that isn't "a lot". Sometimes they seriously just cannot force enough food into their stomach but you just need to force yourself to reach your calorie goal. Eat way more carbs and calorie dense foods. If I see one more person eating a single meal a day of 1400 cal or one more overweight person eating 2 cheese burgers intead of 3 i'm going to lose my mind.

CICO... it's that simple for people with normal health.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I've always been thin compared to what I eat and how little time I dedicate to exercise. I assume it's always because of how active my daily life is, and not direct working out. Granted, my metabolism is declining in my later years, but I'm still thinner, lighter, faster, and stronger than everyone that I know that is around my age.

[Mormolyce]

They eat more and exercise less. Conservation of mass/energy

Why are short people not tall?
Why is the blue sky not brown?
Why is a question not an answer?
Will we ever know the unknowable?

1) Genetics.
2) Rayleigh scattering, plus the spectrum of visible light emitted by the sun, plus the chemical composition of the atmosphere, plus the specific colour sensitivities of human vision.
3) Punctuation.
4) No, tautology.

[aysatsana]

You can't just give doctors a "guide" and call ALL cooked meats carcinogenic. Smoking or overly charbroiling meat can deposit PAH onto the food, but it isn't from the meat itself, it is from the smoke/ash. This is why dietitians advise against smoking/charbroiled meat. This doesn't mean other forms of "high temperature cooked" meat is suddenly evil as well. That'd be retarded. Furthermore, the majority of meat consumed isn't open flame or smoked where PAH's are created (again because of the wood/coal burn, not the meat itself) so this is a moronic point to add entirely.

Then you have a line about the "evils" of carnitine despite the health BENEFITS of consuming it, and the only thing this guide does is say it causes problems when over consumed (which is true about literally everything).

Then there's the antibiotics in animals causing superbugs and diseased TWO MILLION people with only a link to the generic antibiotic study by the CDC which only states there MAY be a link between food based antibiotics and resistance with humans... /snicker

Oh and the line about iron is just laughable! They turn the most common deficiency in vegan diets into a negative against evil meat consumers because excess can cause problems! HAHAHA

Hoooooly crap vegans are an impressionable lot.

Right that's why WHO has classified processed meats as carcinogenic and red meats as probable carcinogenic. I like how you try to ignore every evidence out there that is negative towards meat... keep living in your bubble. Even the Harvard Medical School advises to eat less red meat and more plant based foods. Many studies also show that vegans live longer and are healthier than meat eaters.

I think my links CLEARLY is enough evidence to show you that vegan diets are healthy. I won't argue for weeks about which diet is the healthiest, it's pointless. I have nothing to prove, I've linked enough studies. Can vegans have shitty and deficient diets? Yes, but so can anyone.


Please read this wonderful quote from Harvard Medical School
"Studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses"

"Vegans are impressionable lot" not sure about that, did you know that vegetarians have a higher IQ than meat eaters?

I can already read your reply "opinion opinion opinion as I have no evidence to support my crap hur dur vegans are stupid"

[Deleted]

For me food isn't very pleasurable, i eat simply because i have to.
I can for example go to bed when i'm really hungry even though the fridge is in the next room. I can go weeks without feeling any kind of urge to eat candy or ice cream or whatever.
I've lived for days on water and fruit alone when i have been sick, not really feeling like eating.

The only thing that really get me eating is hard exercise then my body start screaming for calories but it subsides the second I've gotten some food in me. I guess i'm just wired differently.

[Deleted]

So the human body is kinda like memory foam?

That would be an interesting idea.

[Fasc]

Right that's why WHO has classified processed meats as carcinogenic and red meats as probable carcinogenic.

Oh yeah... bacon = cancer.

/cackle

Did you even read WHY the WHO tried this one? Do you even understand what "probable carcinogen" requires as a standard? I'm going to go with "no" given your responses thus far and your utter reliance to an authority that isn't actually authoritative on such minutia.

I like how you try to ignore every evidence out there that is negative towards meat... keep living in your bubble. Even the Harvard Medical School advises to eat less red meat and more plant based foods. Many studies also show that vegans live longer and are healthier than meat eaters.

"Many studies" that you don't link and aren't actually valid given your previous source of a medical humanities journal (ie a crap source). I'm not ignoring the issues with red meat as I plainly stated repeatedly that overconsumption is a problem no one is dismissing. But that's precisely the issue with vegan diets as well, the need to consume a lot of various items to achieve minimal thresholds of nutrition while simultaneously overconsuming other items. Cutting some meat out of your diet if you're constantly eating 8+ oz of red meat daily is hardly a new thing, that's called "failed portion control." But that doesn't mean meat is bad, shouldn't be consumed in proper amounts, or that vegan diets are inherently better.

Protip: Vegan diets would be the default in texts and the most commonly advised diet by doctors and dietitians if it were actually intrinsically the best.

I think my links CLEARLY is enough evidence to show you that vegan diets are healthy. I won't argue for weeks about which diet is the healthiest, it's pointless. I have nothing to prove, I've linked enough studies. Can vegans have shitty and deficient diets? Yes, but so can anyone.

Your links are just locations, not actual specific studies. The Mayo Clinic has great information, but they're not flawless so the study BY them or associated researchers is required, not just them alone. You're one big giant "appeal to authority" fallacy.

As evidenced...

Please read this wonderful quote from Harvard Medical School
"Studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses"

No study, no data, no conclusion. Are we comparing the typical meat consumer in America to someone who is using a specifically tailored vegan diet? Well NOOOOO shit Sherlock the vegan in that case is healthier!!

Next up: Power-walking is the premiere form of exercise! Just check out our study where we compare 400lb basement dwellers to the top 10% of power walking champions!!

"Vegans are impressionable lot" not sure about that, did you know that vegetarians have a higher IQ than meat eaters?

I can already read your reply "opinion opinion opinion as I have no evidence to support my crap hur dur vegans are stupid"

/snicker
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...childs-IQ.html

Buuut to deal directly with this psuedo science..

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...nt-meat-eaters

Here's the article you're likely fawning over. Notice how when he did the exact same study in the US... there was negligible or no differences whatsoever? Oh and when they controlled for religion, it disappeared entirely? Yeah you probably shouldn't rely upon a psychologist blogger for "AHAH Vegans >>> Meat eaters" when his own data doesn't support your conclusion. IQ also strongly correlates with wealth, access to education (or better education), stable home life, presence of extracurricular activities in general, interest in music, and so forth. To directly tie back to Dr. Kanazawa, wealth and abundance allow any species to develop novelty.

Veganism and vegetarianism are novelties.

Try vetting your sources better next time... or eat more spinach or something, this meat eater is running circles around you.

[aysatsana]

Try vetting your sources better next time... or eat more spinach or something, this meat eater is running circles around you.

Like I said we can go on for days about this.. think I'll just end it here. It was fun talking to you

[Allybeboba]

Oh yeah... bacon = cancer.

/cackle

Did you even read WHY the WHO tried this one? Do you even understand what "probable carcinogen" requires as a standard? I'm going to go with "no" given your responses thus far and your utter reliance to an authority that isn't actually authoritative on such minutia.


"Many studies" that you don't link and aren't actually valid given your previous source of a medical humanities journal (ie a crap source). I'm not ignoring the issues with red meat as I plainly stated repeatedly that overconsumption is a problem no one is dismissing. But that's precisely the issue with vegan diets as well, the need to consume a lot of various items to achieve minimal thresholds of nutrition while simultaneously overconsuming other items. Cutting some meat out of your diet if you're constantly eating 8+ oz of red meat daily is hardly a new thing, that's called "failed portion control." But that doesn't mean meat is bad, shouldn't be consumed in proper amounts, or that vegan diets are inherently better.

Protip: Vegan diets would be the default in texts and the most commonly advised diet by doctors and dietitians if it were actually intrinsically the best.


Your links are just locations, not actual specific studies. The Mayo Clinic has great information, but they're not flawless so the study BY them or associated researchers is required, not just them alone. You're one big giant "appeal to authority" fallacy.

As evidenced...

No study, no data, no conclusion. Are we comparing the typical meat consumer in America to someone who is using a specifically tailored vegan diet? Well NOOOOO shit Sherlock the vegan in that case is healthier!!

Next up: Power-walking is the premiere form of exercise! Just check out our study where we compare 400lb basement dwellers to the top 10% of power walking champions!!



/snicker
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...childs-IQ.html

Buuut to deal directly with this psuedo science..

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...nt-meat-eaters

Here's the article you're likely fawning over. Notice how when he did the exact same study in the US... there was negligible or no differences whatsoever? Oh and when they controlled for religion, it disappeared entirely? Yeah you probably shouldn't rely upon a psychologist blogger for "AHAH Vegans >>> Meat eaters" when his own data doesn't support your conclusion. IQ also strongly correlates with wealth, access to education (or better education), stable home life, presence of extracurricular activities in general, interest in music, and so forth. To directly tie back to Dr. Kanazawa, wealth and abundance allow any species to develop novelty.

Veganism and vegetarianism are novelties.

Try vetting your sources better next time... or eat more spinach or something, this meat eater is running circles around you.

I think I like you!
Remind me to not get into interwebz quarrels with you!

[Al Gorefiend]

Interesting documentary and why skinny-shaming is just as harmful as fat shaming. I struggled for years with weight gain because no matter how much junk food I ate, I wouldn't gain a pound. What I would gain is sluggishness, acne and constant stomach ache. At 16 years old I weighed 110 pounds..

[Hooked]

Metabolism

[unbound]

Metabolism

Sorry, no.

Fatter people have a higher metabolism more than 99% of the time. Yes, there are a very small number of people with notably lower or higher metabolism, but they are exceptionally rare.

Ultimately, it comes down to calories in / calories out. Even the finding that not all calories are equal is by a minuscule amount.

Want to know your resting metabolic rate (i.e. if you just sat in bed all day, how many calories your body will burn just to keep it alive)? Here you go.

For Men : 10 x weight (kg) + 6.25 x height (cm) – 5 x Age + 5

For Women : 10 x weight (kg) + 6.25 x height (cm) – 5 x Age – 161

It has been studied enough to show that it is accurate to within 10% for nearly everyone.

So why is someone who eats almost nothing fat? Simply...they forget what they eat. In one study, a woman who complained that she couldn't lose weight despite maintaining a strict diet of 1,200 calories a day was asked to put into a baggie all the little candies she might eat (e.g. in a candy dish at an office) for a week. Turns out she was eating an additional 1,000 calories a day in those candies, but didn't think about it because it was just a little bit of candy eat time.

[Deleted]

Best part of this thread so far:
"vegetarians have a higher IQ than meat eaters )))"
*Gets blown the fuck up verbally, or textually if you want to be specific, by a meat eater*
"Y-Yeah well...Can go on for days, I'm leaving"

Beautiful use of that higher IQ.

[LMuhlen]

I've weighted 64 kg for the last 12~15 years, I'm 1.8 m tall, that makes me underweight.

I actively tried gaining weight on some occasions and got as far as 68 kg, but in less than a month I was 64 kg again.

I lived 2 years basically on pasta, pizza, eggs, fish, pork, cheese, doner and chocolate and no gains... Now I regularly eat burgers, fries...

I'm the definition of sedentary. I'm now trying the gym as a different approach to gain some weight.

I eat a lot. People are often surprised. I hate wasting food, so I tend to eat more than what I want, and usually I want to eat more than other people.

Energy in - energy out? Yeah, right...

The one point I differ from most people is that I hate soda, tried it maybe 3 times in my entire life. Also don't drink beer.

GF says I'm too warm. I do fidget a lot too. But I doubt fidgeting comes even near to some overweight person running 30 minutes on the gym and not getting any thinner. I mean, just to carry around a body of 100 kg should be a hell of an exercise...