Holy Pally Log Critique

[Caramuru]

Hello fellow Holy pallies

My guild finally downed heroic xavius tonight after a bunch of attempts. Was nearing the end of the raid night so it felt good to finally get that done. The reason why I'm posting is that I felt like I could have played a lot better on the kill and was just wondering what I can do to improve to make it so when we begin mythic progression I can be a better healer!

Any advice would be welcomed.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7c9xtDMAgLkV18h4#

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Uncanny/simple

[Noules]

Your HpS requirement seems to have been a bit smaller than what I've seen in my parses (typically 10-12 man) so not all of these may hold.

1) Not enough LoD. Only 15 casts out of a 420s fight - that's very low. You don't need the perfect LoD to get good value out of it; it's really even worth using with just 2 injured people in the cone if there isn't a higher priority heal to use. If you anticipate a better opportunity in the next couple of seconds, hold it, of course, but it's not necessary to wait for the optimal situation to cast it.

2) More FoL on IoL. Your average FoL hit looks kind of low. You really want to spend every IoL on FoL unless you are critically low on mana.

3) More FoL period. You really want to come out of dream state with basically 0 mana since it resets.

4) LotM is not a great choice to use unless you had to move when using it (you should be able to stand and deliver for most of the fight). 40 casts feel high. Note the self-damage basically cancels out your legendary healing.

5) I personally prefer Lightbringer on this fight, but I can understand using Faith. That being the case, LotM hurts you even more since you lose out on even more beacon healing. A lot of that is overheal, so less impactful, but that in turn is why I would recommend Lightbringer over Faith.

6) If you have the option, use a stat stick or a personal buff proc for this fight. The healing proc trinkets are essentially a flat HpS bonus generally due to ICDs; you have essentially two mana pools this fight (and potentially more CDs) and can pretty much go nuts, which amplifies personal buffs more than the flat healing procs. Generally speaking you will usually want stat sticks/personal buffs for fights with large HpS values and procs for the lower HpS values (though this depends on precisely what mechanic is causing the HpS change). Not terribly important given how small of an effect trinkets have right now.

[Caramuru]

Your HpS requirement seems to have been a bit smaller than what I've seen in my parses (typically 10-12 man) so not all of these may hold.

1) Not enough LoD. Only 15 casts out of a 420s fight - that's very low. You don't need the perfect LoD to get good value out of it; it's really even worth using with just 2 injured people in the cone if there isn't a higher priority heal to use. If you anticipate a better opportunity in the next couple of seconds, hold it, of course, but it's not necessary to wait for the optimal situation to cast it.

2) More FoL on IoL. Your average FoL hit looks kind of low. You really want to spend every IoL on FoL unless you are critically low on mana.

3) More FoL period. You really want to come out of dream state with basically 0 mana since it resets.

4) LotM is not a great choice to use unless you had to move when using it (you should be able to stand and deliver for most of the fight). 40 casts feel high. Note the self-damage basically cancels out your legendary healing.

5) I personally prefer Lightbringer on this fight, but I can understand using Faith. That being the case, LotM hurts you even more since you lose out on even more beacon healing. A lot of that is overheal, so less impactful, but that in turn is why I would recommend Lightbringer over Faith.

6) If you have the option, use a stat stick or a personal buff proc for this fight. The healing proc trinkets are essentially a flat HpS bonus generally due to ICDs; you have essentially two mana pools this fight (and potentially more CDs) and can pretty much go nuts, which amplifies personal buffs more than the flat healing procs. Generally speaking you will usually want stat sticks/personal buffs for fights with large HpS values and procs for the lower HpS values (though this depends on precisely what mechanic is causing the HpS change). Not terribly important given how small of an effect trinkets have right now.

Thank you for the very insightful response!

1) I'll try to definitely use it more and focus on positioning.

2 and 3) Brilliant. I try to never hardcast HL unless it's proced via IoL. I'm so worried about mana that I tend to never capitalize on the increased heal on FoL unless the target is in dire straights. My other healers are usually OOM by midway through and I don't know how. For future attempts on xavius if i'm dreaming I'll make it a priority to burn my mana pool and use more FoL.

4 and 5) As for LoTM I think my usage that kill was due to me panicking because the tanks were near death consistently. But as you said the healing doesn't transfer to the other beacon target so instead of 2-3 gcd's on lotm a FoL or two would have been much more efficient. My general usage of LOTM is usually low just in that case i was too worried with trying to keep the tanks up.

6) I'll be sure to try to farm out more trinkets. Think I saw a few base int stat sticks hopefully i can roll crit on them.

Again thank you for the response! I'll be sure to take your advice into mythic progression.

[pantong51]

Thank you for the very insightful response!

1) I'll try to definitely use it more and focus on positioning.

2 and 3) Brilliant. I try to never hardcast HL unless it's proced via IoL. I'm so worried about mana that I tend to never capitalize on the increased heal on FoL unless the target is in dire straights. My other healers are usually OOM by midway through and I don't know how. For future attempts on xavius if i'm dreaming I'll make it a priority to burn my mana pool and use more FoL.

4 and 5) As for LoTM I think my usage that kill was due to me panicking because the tanks were near death consistently. But as you said the healing doesn't transfer to the other beacon target so instead of 2-3 gcd's on lotm a FoL or two would have been much more efficient. My general usage of LOTM is usually low just in that case i was too worried with trying to keep the tanks up.

6) I'll be sure to try to farm out more trinkets. Think I saw a few base int stat sticks hopefully i can roll crit on them.

Again thank you for the response! I'll be sure to take your advice into mythic progression.

LotM is a great spell to use on X, If you are ever in a situation where you are 100% corrupt spam the fuck out of it to keep people toped and to brind your self low. If you cast Divine Shield at all you can work in LotM to save mana with HS FL-IoL procs. Hpal's have the 4 damage reduction/immune ability on extremely short cooldown. Dont be afraid to cast up to 4-5 a min. that alot of mana saved. 200k heal for 12k mana, take 100k damage that can be reduced, it less than 5k mana to top off, the total mana cost on the raid for LotM is less than 20k or less than Holy Light

[Simulacrum]

2 and 3) Brilliant. I try to never hardcast HL unless it's proced via IoL. I'm so worried about mana that I tend to never capitalize on the increased heal on FoL unless the target is in dire straights. My other healers are usually OOM by midway through and I don't know how. For future attempts on xavius if i'm dreaming I'll make it a priority to burn my mana pool and use more FoL.

The worst time to cast HL is when it's procced via IoL, though, especially if you're worried about mana, since IoL-FoL is more mana efficient than IoL-HL.

...200k heal for 12k mana, take 100k damage that can be reduced, it less than 5k mana to top off, the total mana cost on the raid for LotM is less than 20k or less than Holy Light

And half as much hps.

[Astraios]

LotM is a great spell to use on X, If you are ever in a situation where you are 100% corrupt spam the fuck out of it to keep people toped and to brind your self low. If you cast Divine Shield at all you can work in LotM to save mana with HS FL-IoL procs. Hpal's have the 4 damage reduction/immune ability on extremely short cooldown. Dont be afraid to cast up to 4-5 a min. that alot of mana saved. 200k heal for 12k mana, take 100k damage that can be reduced, it less than 5k mana to top off, the total mana cost on the raid for LotM is less than 20k or less than Holy Light

No, LotM is a terrible spell including the self-damage, because it is a waste of time in terms of throughput and HPM. It's only use is A: people require heals and there is movement w/ no other available instants, B: someone will die in the cast time of an FOL.

Especially if you use faith, then LotM is basically worthless.


To keep on topic, @Caramuru: Here is my most recent log from H Xavius
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=10
I'm 2 ilvl above you and w/o a legendary at the time of this parse.

Main differences:
1. You use LotM far too liberally, stop.
2. You can see that I have more FOL casts added into the fight than you used globals on LOTM, and my fight is shorter than your fight. What does this mean? It means you need to use your mana, and FOL is the most effective way to dump mana.
3. You don't use LoD or HS enough. I have more casts of both in a shorter fight.
4. Why are you casting 33 holy lights in a fight when you have over 1million extra mana to burn through? This goes back to 2: Plan your mana usage.
5. Mercy is not very good. Sacrifice is generally better if you can get away with using it on a fight (especially with the legendary shoulders converting the extra damage taken into healing.)
6. You could've used twice as many bestow faith in the fight. Hint: even with twice as many bestows, my arcing light still did more healing with higher overhealing, with less uses. Xavius is a good fight for LH due to stacking and general raid damage.
7. I am terrible at using Tyr's Deliverance, it is known.
8. Based on me doing 70mil healing to tanks vs your 76mil healing to tanks, you either pumped them with LotM (inefficient) or you hardcasted on them a lot (waste of time that could be spent dumping your extremely excessive mana).
9. Why do you have a fifth healer who is being outhealed by tanks? Even accounting for his active time, that's sketchy.
10. Oh, you are 5 healing a 18man raid. That would explain why there is so little raid damage to heal. I was 4 healing a 22man. (There still wasn't anything to heal, i had 50% overheal o.o).

So, overall I would say that I am slightly impressed that with that much LotM you still have a relatively good log in such a small raid. But in any case, you can improve through the points I listed above.

[Caramuru]

No, LotM is a terrible spell including the self-damage, because it is a waste of time in terms of throughput and HPM. It's only use is A: people require heals and there is movement w/ no other available instants, B: someone will die in the cast time of an FOL.

Especially if you use faith, then LotM is basically worthless.


To keep on topic, @Caramuru: Here is my most recent log from H Xavius
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=10
I'm 2 ilvl above you and w/o a legendary at the time of this parse.

Main differences:
1. You use LotM far too liberally, stop.
2. You can see that I have more FOL casts added into the fight than you used globals on LOTM, and my fight is shorter than your fight. What does this mean? It means you need to use your mana, and FOL is the most effective way to dump mana.
3. You don't use LoD or HS enough. I have more casts of both in a shorter fight.
4. Why are you casting 33 holy lights in a fight when you have over 1million extra mana to burn through? This goes back to 2: Plan your mana usage.
5. Mercy is not very good. Sacrifice is generally better if you can get away with using it on a fight (especially with the legendary shoulders converting the extra damage taken into healing.)
6. You could've used twice as many bestow faith in the fight. Hint: even with twice as many bestows, my arcing light still did more healing with higher overhealing, with less uses. Xavius is a good fight for LH due to stacking and general raid damage.
7. I am terrible at using Tyr's Deliverance, it is known.
8. Based on me doing 70mil healing to tanks vs your 76mil healing to tanks, you either pumped them with LotM (inefficient) or you hardcasted on them a lot (waste of time that could be spent dumping your extremely excessive mana).
9. Why do you have a fifth healer who is being outhealed by tanks? Even accounting for his active time, that's sketchy.
10. Oh, you are 5 healing a 18man raid. That would explain why there is so little raid damage to heal. I was 4 healing a 22man. (There still wasn't anything to heal, i had 50% overheal o.o).

So, overall I would say that I am slightly impressed that with that much LotM you still have a relatively good log in such a small raid. But in any case, you can improve through the points I listed above.

One of our shaman healers wants to dps so we are trying to gear another to replace. Albeit, both of them have areas to improve on. (Early deaths often and frequently)

I'll take your advice to heart next time and see if I can improve on my nana usage and try to keep the LoTm down to strict movement only usage.

I gotta stop the habit of HS > FOL > LoTm

I tried sacrifice for the first time out few attempts. It seems during aura mastery our heals are delayed so that. When big raid damage go out. You pop AM. Throw a HS and midway through your FoL it'll trigger the effect of the HS heal.

Also, being the only paladin in the raid I thought about switching to JoL. Though SW is so good, I'm torn.

Tyrs deliverance I don't know how I feel about it. It's good but it just feels awkward as the HoT is random and sometimes people don't get the buff to our main heals.

Should I download weak auras to better track CDs and have more downtime of HS?

[teverin]

No, LotM is a terrible spell including the self-damage, because it is a waste of time in terms of throughput and HPM. It's only use is A: people require heals and there is movement w/ no other available instants, B: someone will die in the cast time of an FOL.

Especially if you use faith, then LotM is basically worthless.


To keep on topic, @Caramuru: Here is my most recent log from H Xavius
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=10
I'm 2 ilvl above you and w/o a legendary at the time of this parse.

Main differences:
1. You use LotM far too liberally, stop.
2. You can see that I have more FOL casts added into the fight than you used globals on LOTM, and my fight is shorter than your fight. What does this mean? It means you need to use your mana, and FOL is the most effective way to dump mana.
3. You don't use LoD or HS enough. I have more casts of both in a shorter fight.
4. Why are you casting 33 holy lights in a fight when you have over 1million extra mana to burn through? This goes back to 2: Plan your mana usage.
5. Mercy is not very good. Sacrifice is generally better if you can get away with using it on a fight (especially with the legendary shoulders converting the extra damage taken into healing.)
6. You could've used twice as many bestow faith in the fight. Hint: even with twice as many bestows, my arcing light still did more healing with higher overhealing, with less uses. Xavius is a good fight for LH due to stacking and general raid damage.
7. I am terrible at using Tyr's Deliverance, it is known.
8. Based on me doing 70mil healing to tanks vs your 76mil healing to tanks, you either pumped them with LotM (inefficient) or you hardcasted on them a lot (waste of time that could be spent dumping your extremely excessive mana).
9. Why do you have a fifth healer who is being outhealed by tanks? Even accounting for his active time, that's sketchy.
10. Oh, you are 5 healing a 18man raid. That would explain why there is so little raid damage to heal. I was 4 healing a 22man. (There still wasn't anything to heal, i had 50% overheal o.o).

So, overall I would say that I am slightly impressed that with that much LotM you still have a relatively good log in such a small raid. But in any case, you can improve through the points I listed above.

I have been trying out being a healer this xpac and one thing I noticed on your logs vs his is the amount of overhealing. I am not trying to sound like a jerk but how much does the overhealing matter when comparing things? Is it even a factor to consider?

[Simulacrum]

I have been trying out being a healer this xpac and one thing I noticed on your logs vs his is the amount of overhealing. I am not trying to sound like a jerk but how much does the overhealing matter when comparing things? Is it even a factor to consider?

Overhealing represents time and resources spent doing nothing - which obviously could've been spent doing something. In this context, mostly DPS.

Of course, there are situations where overhealing is inevitable, like due to beacon of light which will always overheal for a lot, or if you need to heal someone but none of your heals are small enough not to overheal on them, or with critical heals, etc., but as a rule it's obviously to be minimized as much as possible.

If you (or your other healers) are doing a lot of overhealing (especially on fast abilities like holy shock or flash of light), that means you're either bringing too many healers, or people are choosing their targets poorly. Both represent lost potential in your raid. If you have 4-5 healers in your raid overhealing for 40-50% each, that probably means you could get away with dropping 1-2 of those for 1-2 more DPS, which would be a lot more helpful in a competent raid than simply having healers standing around overhealing for a lot and accomplishing very little.

Often you'll find that the reason you thought those healers necessary in the first place simply disappear with the added damage from those bonus DPS.

Most guilds do overheal for a lot, though, because I guess it feels safer and it puts less pressure on the healers.

[Caramuru]

Overhealing represents time and resources spent doing nothing - which obviously could've been spent doing something. In this context, mostly DPS.

Of course, there are situations where overhealing is inevitable, like due to beacon of light which will always overheal for a lot, or if you need to heal someone but none of your heals are small enough not to overheal on them, or with critical heals, etc., but as a rule it's obviously to be minimized as much as possible.

If you (or your other healers) are doing a lot of overhealing (especially on fast abilities like holy shock or flash of light), that means you're either bringing too many healers, or people are choosing their targets poorly. Both represent lost potential in your raid. If you have 4-5 healers in your raid overhealing for 40-50% each, that probably means you could get away with dropping 1-2 of those for 1-2 more DPS, which would be a lot more helpful in a competent raid than simply having healers standing around overhealing for a lot and accomplishing very little.

Often you'll find that the reason you thought those healers necessary in the first place simply disappear with the added damage from those bonus DPS.

Most guilds do overheal for a lot, though, because I guess it feels safer and it puts less pressure on the healers.

Very valid points. I usually have a little overhealing but majority of it is the legendary shoulders and beacon. Rest is just crit or two putting them over the top.

this is my first expansion Healing endgame. So I'm still getting the feel for when to anticipate when damage is coming. Or if the dps I just healed is he or she out of danger? Can I scan for bigger priorities? How are my beacons doing.

A lot going on. Absolutely love it