Monks are bad?

[Extremities]

BM's difficulty keeps getting overstated imo. It's not difficult, just complex to get a hang of. Once you figure it out it boils down to juggling your stagger and brew charges. The same goes for MW, it's not an intuitive spec at first glance, but once you understand the tools you have available it's simple stuff just like any other healer.

People don't like it because other tanks are a lot more fun and rewarding. A lot more independent too this expansion. BM relies heavily on healers and has a lower quality of life compared to the other tanks.

Also to the op, both MW and WW are fine. BM is fine too, just not preferred by any monks themselves or raid leaders. Why bring a BM when you can bring a prot.

I agree now that I have gotten the hang of the spec. Brew isn't as difficult/bad as I first thought. The issue that the class DOES have though is the speed with which stagger that builds. I'm sitting in 868 ilvl with my artifact being 888 and my stagger in Mythic/Mythics+ build so quickly, I am constantly in red QUICKLY with no charges left to purify the remaining red after already using a couple ISB's with a purify. I take more damage than other tanks because of this shit mechanic. I think it's a great concept but once again, like some other classes, executed poorly. Stagger does an incredible amount of damage If they can figure out how to manage the charges with the amount of staffer, than the class would be a lot better than it currently is. I often times get told I am the hardest tank to heal in mythics because of the stagger alone taking 5%+ of my health per sec ontop of the regular hits

[WindigoEJ]

Ugh. This argument grinds my gears. What utility do other healers bring, especially in regards to the removal of fistweaving? The only spec that can heal through damage is now Disc. So this means that druid/pala/sham/hpriest also bring no utility?

Define utility?

Utility is basically something unique that a class brings to the raid which would make a raid leader pick class A over class B, healing numbers being equal. Druids have Ironbark which can be on a 30 second cooldown, battle res, etc. Shamans have bloodlust/heroism, windrush totem, a great toolkit of single target and group healing, and a mastery that really boosts HPS when it counts. You get the idea. In a large group setting, this isn't nearly as important as most classes/abilities/utility get represented. However, in 5 man content, especially with mythic+ being a viable way to gear, and in small raids (~10 man), having utility among the limited number of players can be an important factor.

Ultimately, there will still be plenty "bring the player, not the class," but having a niche or something desirable for the group setting besides "I can push heal button" can go a long way towards creating a desire for a class/spec.

[cqwrteur]

Ugh. This argument grinds my gears. What utility do other healers bring, especially in regards to the removal of fistweaving? The only spec that can heal through damage is now Disc. So this means that druid/pala/sham/hpriest also bring no utility?

Define utility?

HPal :tank healing niche. BE ALWAYS OVERPOWERED DUE TO GUARANTEED RAID SPOT SINCE VANILLA.
Resto SM: One more raid CD SLT (much stronger than a Tank CD), heroism
Druid: 2min Tranq+Strongest Tank CD + Battle Rez (very important in 5M+)
HPriest: Hymn of Hope (although not very viable)
MW: WTF? NOTHING.

[Deleted]

Windwalker: Really strong
Mistweaver: Really strong
Brewmaster: Okay

[Deleted]

Windwalker is middle of the pack. When you see Windwalkers on top it is usually a skill gap and/or gear gap.

[Revamp Man]

People always confuse concepts between "difficult to play" and "underpowered". When they say some spec is difficult to play, it always means it is underpowered since no real evidence to prove it is difficult.

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I only agree MW is good in rated bg. I don't think MW is not bad. The removal of fistweaving left this spec with zero utility and no reason to bring one in other environment.

Windwalker? Well, one spec dps class is always not very strong because they can't handle the risk of fluctuating performance by patches.

1. you can really screw up bm if your not paying attention to what your doing but if you play well its fine obviously not warrior op but it works

2. mw has fistweaving still via talents and with certain traits it can be an amazing healer to keep your raid alive through heavy aoe damage (revival chi ji)

3. ww is strong if your not an idiot and understand how it works

[Invisibelf]

I agree now that I have gotten the hang of the spec. Brew isn't as difficult/bad as I first thought. The issue that the class DOES have though is the speed with which stagger that builds. I'm sitting in 868 ilvl with my artifact being 888 and my stagger in Mythic/Mythics+ build so quickly, I am constantly in red QUICKLY with no charges left to purify the remaining red after already using a couple ISB's with a purify. I take more damage than other tanks because of this shit mechanic. I think it's a great concept but once again, like some other classes, executed poorly. Stagger does an incredible amount of damage If they can figure out how to manage the charges with the amount of staffer, than the class would be a lot better than it currently is. I often times get told I am the hardest tank to heal in mythics because of the stagger alone taking 5%+ of my health per sec ontop of the regular hits

Be nice if PB/ISB had separate charges.

[cqwrteur]

Windwalker: Really strong
Mistweaver: Really strong
Brewmaster: Okay

That is not true.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ps&keystone=15
Mistweaver is the only healer which hasn't passed mythic 15+ dungeons yet.

[Virond]

That is not true.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ps&keystone=15
Mistweaver is the only healer which hasn't passed mythic 15+ dungeons yet.

Not all people upload logs for dungeons, so this is not really a verifiable statement.

[Extremities]

Be nice if PB/ISB had separate charges.

This would help tremendously with the issue Brewmaster is having. Having them on the same charges hinders our ability to tank higher tier Mythic+'s and/or Mythic raids due to how high our stagger gets. I've tanked enough on the Brewmaster in 7.0 and have enough gear to make a pretty good judgment call on the tank in our current content and out of all of the tanks, our's desperately needs some help and it all starts with separating those two abilities to be on their own charges.

[Awsyme]

Monks are, largely, fine but for some reason got a bad rep before legion launched with various commentators frequently predicting it would be bottom of the barrel for both tanking and healing, and okay to good for dps. They were already the least played class in the game so I suspect a lot of people benched theirs and levelled another alt. I know my own raid group pushed heavily for me to bring my shaman saying they didn't really see the point in monks.

However... over a month later half my raid group is contemplating levelling one after seeing how much fun I've had with the class.

DPS is great, it does fantastic aoe damage and good middle of the pack single target numbers. It's also very very maneuverable, has little problem breaking out of snares and has a good number of stuns. Compared to some of the other dps specs I've tried it's also surprisingly durable for soloing, and can handle elites without much trouble (something some of the others struggle with).

Healing is, again, great. Once again its very maneuverable, has a flexible healing style with tea giving it the ability to reduce mana, channel an aoe while moving etc. Played correctly your numbers in fights should be high as you're fantastic at dealing with raid wide damage and have 2 of the best mass cooldowns in the game (Chi-ji and revival). Only real complaint is a lot of our artifact is pretty bad; getting to two of the golden dragons means wading through awful and expensive abilities like a +5% increase to your bubble (woo woo) or a similar bonus to a cheap minor heal so bad it's not even on my bar.

Lastly the tanking spec needs a small buff. Mechanically it's great. It's fast and the basic idea of choosing between reducing damage or cleansing it works fine. But the actual numbers are fairly 'meh' and it's hard to justify a raid slot compared to a druid, paladin or warrior atm. (to be fair DH and DK have the same problem IMO)

[Thra]

HPal :tank healing niche. BE ALWAYS OVERPOWERED DUE TO GUARANTEED RAID SPOT SINCE VANILLA.
Resto SM: One more raid CD SLT (much stronger than a Tank CD), heroism
Druid: 2min Tranq+Strongest Tank CD + Battle Rez (very important in 5M+)
HPriest: Hymn of Hope (although not very viable)
MW: WTF? NOTHING.

Below :

MW: 3 Min Revival (Raid CD) that also cleanses and is buffed when Artifact Power is put in it (Yu'lon appears) + Life Cocoon, which is better than Iron Bark and can also be buffed through Artifact Power.

We also have Ch-Ji, that can be used every 2 mins (if talented), which is very strong.

Also, very very mobile. Tiger's Lust has saved many a tank for me. We are only one of two healers with an AoE stun, which is HIGHLY useful in M+. Very effective CC (Paralysis) which on some M+ pulls is very very useful. A taunt that makes mobs run faster, I probably use this every time I go to HoV to get sentinel's out of the hallway faster for my group.

[Saverem]

I got bored playing my alt and went on my monk to lvl it as my secondary class to play for legion. After a while, I've been hearing around that the only good thing about monks is the dps spec and that the tank and heal spec is bad. Confused By the statement, I went around Dalaran questioning ppl about monks.

The responds are not good. Some ppl said that monk tank is the worst of all tank specs (which is refuse to believe) and that only only ppl that play a monk tank either has no idea what they're doing or that person is a tanking master because the spec is hard to play. Some said that the healing spec is the least favored of all because of the tools MW has. As for the dps spec, some ppl didn't really have a problem with WW but some has said not to bring one for a single target fight but for aoe fights only.

I don't want to think any of that is true. Monk is my favorite class behind Shaman and would hate to know that this class is being crapped on because the stuff they say about it is true.

Yes, the BrMs are technically the "worse" of the tanks. However, it doesn't mean that they are bad tanks per se. They are still viable, it's just that you'll have to work a lot more to achieve a bit less mitigation than the top 3. So it's basically not really "fair". It would be like you working 10 hour days to make $1000 a week when your colleague is working 5 hour days and getting $1100 a week. You're both making good money, but you're colleague is still making a little more for less work.

MWs right now are fine. They are good healers. Only thing I wish they had was a bit more utility. If they were given ONE more utility ability, they would be up there with Shaman/Dru/Pally healers in terms of sought afterness.

WW Monks IMO are the best Monk specs at the moment. They provide one of the best AoE DPS, and still manage to provide great single target. They also have great utility for Mythic+. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and say they are the best Mythic+ DPS spec at the moment along with Enh Shams and Fire Mages. They are also great for raids, but again, lack the utility that some other DPS offer (yes, I know, their +15% run speed to WWing Legendary makes them great with utility, but you'll need to have that ring to be utility viable, which pretty lame). Their main downside for raiding is that they are melee and have a lot of melee competition.