Secondary Stats

[DesMephisto]

Secondary Stats
The way primary and secondary stats have played out is one of the regrets about Legion.
It is fine to have a best stat and worst stat, but items that don't have your best stat shouldn't be worthless.
This is something the team wants to fix, but it will be done slowly and with plenty of notice.
Players shouldn't feel that their item selection choices are suddenly invalid.
The secondary stats carry much more weight than primary stats right now. Some of this will be fixed as item level goes up.
Item level should determine upgrades. This is especially bad with the personal loot trading system being based on item level.
The team will continue to work on making things better here over the course of the expansion.

Why? It feels great. It forces the RPG to be an RPG, understanding how your stats work, and the implications of them. It has allowed for some of the most RNG heavy classes (and thus not fun) become less RNG. As fury I no longer have to rely on crit because I can stack massive amounts of haste. The class is fun. I don't feel like mastery is a worthless stat anymore because its so dependent upon enrage which is dependent on crit. I feel this was there best iteration of stats yet,even versatility has its use now. Of course though, anything that is fun and actually makes the game better must be seen as bad it seems.

I've always been of the opinion an ilvl upgrade, should not be a dps upgrade. It's far too simplistic of a system and really destroys loot as a whole.

[Deleted]

i think what they didnt like is secondary stats having more value than a mainstat( example: crit for firemage, haste for boomkin etc ) they still want to make you choose certain secondary stats over others but in general a 15 ilvl upgrade regardless of offstats should almost always be an upgrade, while maybe 5-10 itemlvl but worse secondary stats should be looked at

[secondratetech]

Not all classes are equal in this regard. ie rogues, haste on all 3 specs has nearly half the power level of the best secondary. Meaning 20 item level upgrade jewelry with haste ends up being a loss. 20 item levels is a non trivial gap. The stat itself also 'feelsbadman'. Other specs/classes are in the same situation. Some classes have it good.

[DesMephisto]

i think what they didnt like is secondary stats having more value than a mainstat( example: crit for firemage, haste for boomkin etc ) they still want to make you choose certain secondary stats over others but in general a 15 ilvl upgrade regardless of offstats should almost always be an upgrade, while maybe 5-10 itemlvl but worse secondary stats should be looked at

Personally, I always hated that. Main stat was a terrible addition to the game and doesn't really add any complexity other than a point to point basis. At one point str was worth .91 to me, now its back to 1. Main stat should compliment your characters MAIN STATS. For Fury its haste mastery, for outlaw its crit vers, etc. These stats should take priority over "main stat". It just seems like we're grandfathering in an archaic system and saying it should still be at the top.

[kary]

Personally, I always hated that. Main stat was a terrible addition to the game and doesn't really add any complexity other than a point to point basis. At one point str was worth .91 to me, now its back to 1. Main stat should compliment your characters MAIN STATS. For Fury its haste mastery, for outlaw its crit vers, etc. These stats should take priority over "main stat". It just seems like we're grandfathering in an archaic system and saying it should still be at the top.

That was kinda the point of the attuned stat or whatever they called it in WoD.
Secondary stats should matter, though. Just stacking agil/int/str is boring as fuck, and leads to derpy ilvl gearing. Pick items that are good for your spec, not what have higher itemlevels.

[DesMephisto]

That was kinda the point of the attuned stat or whatever they called it in WoD.
Secondary stats should matter, though. Just stacking agil/int/str is boring as fuck, and leads to derpy ilvl gearing. Pick items that are good for your spec, not what have higher itemlevels.

It sounds like this is what they want to go back to as they called the new system a mistake. Which is absurd. The only argument that I can maybe agree with is having jewelry have main stat again. But honestly, I prefer the new system, it feels significantly more rewarding.

[kary]

It sounds like this is what they want to go back to as they called the new system a mistake. Which is absurd. The only argument that I can maybe agree with is having jewelry have main stat again. But honestly, I prefer the new system, it feels significantly more rewarding.

After the preach video (and resulting mmo thread) it seems that they just want to reward the people who invest the absolute minimum, yet again.

[DesMephisto]

After the preach video (and resulting mmo thread) it seems that they just want to reward the people who invest the absolute minimum, yet again.

Which is bullshit. You kill the replay factor this way.

[Deleted]

Well already the stat weight of mainstat is alot bigger this xpac than previous ones, atleast for most classes.

i do agree with blizzard here an Ilvl upgrade should be an upgrade period, then min/maxing comes after that where u want an item with proper secondary stats with same ilvl.

[Otimus]

Things are mostly fine, worthless stats just shouldn't exist. (i.e. mastery for a ret paladin). All stats should be useful, some should just be more useful than others, you shouldn't have a situation where a stat is outright garbage.

[sarym13]

All of this would be resolved with one simple re-addition

Reforging.

Didn't they remove it because they considered it too complicated? Well the way gear is working now seems a lot more complicated than reducing your bad stat and getting a good stat.

[DesMephisto]

Then they shouldn't have included your ilvl in giant colorful numbers the same expansion that they attempted to make that shift.

To be honest, this is the perfect response to "Whats your ilvl? Oh no thanks" it requires players to understand character mechanics and might even help combat that association.

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Well already the stat weight of mainstat is alot bigger this xpac than previous ones, atleast for most classes.

i do agree with blizzard here an Ilvl upgrade should be an upgrade period, then min/maxing comes after that where u want an item with proper secondary stats with same ilvl.

Why? Why should an ilvl difference mean an upgrade? This completely undervalues past accomplishments. An ilvl upgrade, should never be an upgrade all of the time. Its a terrible mechanic stating new is better than old, which is a trash way of thinking.

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All of this would be resolved with one simple re-addition

Reforging.

Didn't they remove it because they considered it too complicated? Well the way gear is working now seems a lot more complicated than reducing your bad stat and getting a good stat.

I'd love if reforging was brought back, I only got to see the tail end of it, but it seemed like a great mechanic.

[kary]

To be honest, this is the perfect response to "Whats your ilvl? Oh no thanks" it requires players to understand character mechanics and might even help combat that association.

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Why? Why should an ilvl difference mean an upgrade? This completely undervalues past accomplishments. An ilvl upgrade, should never be an upgrade all of the time. Its a terrible mechanic stating new is better than old, which is a trash way of thinking.

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I'd love if reforging was brought back, I only got to see the tail end of it, but it seemed like a great mechanic.

Reforging just made everyone think even less about loot since they could just add their preferred stat to an item.
Did it drop? yes? ok it's an upgrade. *rollseyes*