Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Even with an SD MS, FR DPR is lower than Slam though, as I said, refer to the spreadsheet above.

    All sims run so far show it is better to do Slam instead of FR.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikerino View Post
    When you talk about FR vs Slam, what you need to keep in mind is FR stores the damage, the DPR isn't applied when you cast it but when you drop it off.
    FR's DPR is higher in CS+SD than Slam's without them. You would want to stack to 3 before slamming.

    When you then proc Tactician with slam, while youre already at 3 stacks all you'd do is MS all the stored higher DPR gcds out. Narrow window but has a high chance of occuring at 2-3 stacks.
    You could try editing the simcraft APL to mimic this, I did have a go, but the closest I could get it was if MS is delayed until the tactician proc, but even then this was about 1.5k dps lower than the slam > FR rotation described in the compendium.
    Still worth trying yourself, you may find a better apl with better results.

  3. #23
    You could possibly make an arguement for using FR over Slam when the taret doesn't have the CS debuff. If you don't get the proc, it would be better to Slam, but if you do get it FR might be better. So it's kind of a risk/reward thing, and you can always try to edit the APL to test this.

  4. #24
    I've been going through top logs from all encounters to compare the FR and spam usage this guide shows to the usage winning out in actual combat and from what I can see they all weave in slams while spamming FR rather than Slam spam and weaving FR.

  5. #25
    If you're looking at top logs, you are probably looking at people with legendary gloves/ring.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Velinn View Post
    If you're looking at top logs, you are probably looking at people with legendary gloves/ring.
    I was actually focusing on logs with no legendary. Fact is, the majority of people don't have those particular legendaries if any and nor do I. Making logs with legendaries far less relevant Imo.

    It's actually surprising how many of the top logs have no legendary.

  7. #27
    I guess you're looking at normal or heroic logs then. Anyway, the Slam > FR rotation is ON AVERAGE a 10k dps gain, and Arms usually have around 80k dps range. So there will be hard to find accurate logs to reflect that this is overall a gain. This is what sims are for.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Velinn View Post
    I guess you're looking at normal or heroic logs then. Anyway, the Slam > FR rotation is ON AVERAGE a 10k dps gain, and Arms usually have around 80k dps range. So there will be hard to find accurate logs to reflect that this is overall a gain. This is what sims are for.
    Why would anyone look at normal and heroic for 'top logs'? Warcraftlogs defaults to mythic, you'd have to decide to look at heroic, weird decision.

    It's not hard to find accurate logs, they're all accurate just not all representative. I suggest looking at Ryzoh, consistently among the top parses.

    Sims are a great guide but logs are better.
    Last edited by Knightwolve; 2016-10-17 at 12:40 AM.

  9. #29
    Thanks Vel, you're doing a very good service to the warrior community in discord and now in here

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by figglesfiggles View Post
    This site says that you should not delay BC more than 1-2 GCD for a CS proc. Is that really optimal? If I BC and CS isn't up then the damage is so low. Alternatively, if CS procs and BC has maybe 2-3 GCD's left until its up, do I save CS or hope to god I get another proc?
    This is a conundrum I've been facing. Assuming you are single targeting, I think it's best to hold WB for these moments, even if you have great RNG, such that when you have BC up you conveniently have CS ready, and therefore don't use WB at all. It's not worth the risk of having BC and no CS, which is pretty common.

    WB is a bit of annoying CD really, perhaps only really working with ravager, but when are we going to take that?
    Last edited by Basilmoyh; 2016-10-17 at 08:59 AM.

  11. #31
    Thanks a lot for this compendium, your work is much appreciated. Please keep this up to date as we are having the same questions about arms rotation over and over again.

    I also have one: for 2-3 target cleave (and with SS), is it advisable to use the "old" FR>Slam route, or just go with WW>FR?

  12. #32
    Thanks for this compendium!

    Question on Pawn, do we regularly update our stat weights to ensure we get the right updates. Haste is being valued more than Mastery, but I think this might be because I am only on 16% haste.

    SimC seems to value Haste more, but will this change once the 23% has cap is reached? Will the stat scaling change once we reach the soft cap?

    Previously I was on 22% haste, but I play on 200ms latency all the time, how beneficial is it to get my haste to 23%. I saw a damage increase overall when I started gearing towards Versatilty.

    Some advice would be appreciated

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Basilmoyh View Post
    This is a conundrum I've been facing. Assuming you are single targeting, I think it's best to hold WB for these moments, even if you have great RNG, such that when you have BC up you conveniently have CS ready, and therefore don't use WB at all. It's not worth the risk of having BC and no CS, which is pretty common.

    WB is a bit of annoying CD really, perhaps only really working with ravager, but when are we going to take that?
    Yeah, I tend to hold WB either for those moments with no CS for BC or for targetswitching. The SimC APL however uses it in the gcd before a MS comes off cd and you don't have SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by iddqd View Post
    Thanks a lot for this compendium, your work is much appreciated. Please keep this up to date as we are having the same questions about arms rotation over and over again.

    I also have one: for 2-3 target cleave (and with SS), is it advisable to use the "old" FR>Slam route, or just go with WW>FR?
    Now I don't really recommend going SS anywhere, but if you're vs multiple targets it's definitely worth switching out the Slam withh Cleave>WW. Dont has added DPR with multiple targets on his spreadsheet which I would really recommend checking out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atamosk View Post
    Thanks for this compendium!

    Question on Pawn, do we regularly update our stat weights to ensure we get the right updates. Haste is being valued more than Mastery, but I think this might be because I am only on 16% haste.

    SimC seems to value Haste more, but will this change once the 23% has cap is reached? Will the stat scaling change once we reach the soft cap?

    Previously I was on 22% haste, but I play on 200ms latency all the time, how beneficial is it to get my haste to 23%. I saw a damage increase overall when I started gearing towards Versatilty.

    Some advice would be appreciated
    Yes, stat weights will change whenever you get a new gear piece, so I would recommend simming often. It's not super required if you don't want to, though. I also generally recommend editing the Haste weight in Pawn if it's saying Haste > Mastery. Haste will fall in value on simc after the 20% cap though, but once we are at higher gear levels we'll probably want to aim somewhere between 22% to 27% to comfortably get the 5th gcd.

    I would not recommend going for haste over mastery, even if you are at 19%. At this ilvl, both a haste build and a versatility build are very much viable and the difference between the two are minimal. A haste build will have a smoother rotation (with lower gcd, more autos = more rage) while a versatility build will give you flat damage and increase your survivability a tad.

    I tend to recommend a haste build. (Keep in mind by saying haste build I mean a mastery>haste build)


    Thanks for all the feedback too!

  14. #34
    Just a Question: I have 15% haste and I find myself often in an awkward position where I have 2s CD on MS and Slam is on top of the priority list. But using that slam at that time just slightly delays my MS. So I'm wondering if I just just not use Slam in that situation and hammer the MS key or maybe use FR instead of Slam in that particular Situation?

  15. #35
    So i finally won the legendary lottery and got the execute ring as my first after playing non stop. Does that ring effect the Slam vs FR argument at all?

    Should have actually read the document an bit further my bad
    Last edited by krep86; 2016-10-17 at 07:46 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by excip View Post
    Just a Question: I have 15% haste and I find myself often in an awkward position where I have 2s CD on MS and Slam is on top of the priority list. But using that slam at that time just slightly delays my MS. So I'm wondering if I just just not use Slam in that situation and hammer the MS key or maybe use FR instead of Slam in that particular Situation?
    2s cd on MS shouldn't do that, with 15% haste you'd have around 1.3s gcd, so you'd have plenty of time to not delay the MS. Also you don't have to fill every gcd or always use slam or FR, unless you're ragecapping you're not wasting any rage by not slamming here. You could argue that the rage would be best used after the MS too for a more valuable tact proc (getting both CS and MS cds reset)

    Quote Originally Posted by krep86 View Post
    So i finally won the legendary lottery and got the execute ring as my first after playing non stop. Does that ring effect the Slam vs FR argument at all?
    Hey, there's a section about the ring in the compendium also. Basically it boils down to prioritizing Execute for the SDs, and keeping in mind you will probably have less gcds to use Slam, so you have more room to use FR for ragedumping.

  17. #37
    The Slam > FR thing is really throwing me off considering I finally thought I nailed the rotation and turns out I've been doing it wrong. You say Slam over 32 rage, what if your not running Dauntless does that change?

  18. #38
    The reasoning was to make sure that you had enough rage to MS on CD so you slam at 32 with dauntless. If you aren't running dauntless your single would be to slam at 40 since MS/Slam are 20 rage.

  19. #39
    Is really Fishbrul Special better then the mastery food by that much? I just can't imagine how it will do so much dmg for arms

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Sinnermighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Exhumator View Post
    Is really Fishbrul Special better then the mastery food by that much? I just can't imagine how it will do so much dmg for arms
    It scales with vers and our mastery.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •