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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    • If you use MS before BC+BS, then SD is consumed without being buffed by Battle Cry.
    • If you don't use MS, the 4p will automatically cast MS during Bladestorm and consume SD while being buffed by Battle Cry.
    Yup, I know that. The thing is, MS with SD has about 50% CC, BC guarantees MS crit+adds damage due to Blood of Zakjiz or whatever its called. In case we used MS before BC+BS, we're 1 MS ahead which may or may not crit with SD buff. In case we don't, we're ahead by 20% of additional 50% on MS with a guaranteed crit (blood trait) and guaranteed additional dmg from the crit. The difference is not significant, but still. I just don't really know how to estimate which one would be better long term. Or, rephrasing, did you consider this while writing the compendium and did the math?

  2. #362
    Without having to go to far into the weeds even with this information logs would be extremely helpful. seems like most your damage problems are coming from cleave fights. Harjatan you specify that you are using BS ? If this is the case you would want to switch to Ravager as it will allow you to cleave much more damage in short periods of time with the use of extra Mortal Strikes as well as More Executes on the adds. If you haven't used Ravager much yet go practice using it in some Mythic + it is strong in mythic's for the same reason. Mistress if they really don't want you to do any cleave then you will switch to dauntless and Opportunity strikes instead of Sweeping Strikes and Ravager. But as Arms you should still do decent damage on this fight just by using your Bladestorm on CD. If you are allowed to cleave on this fight however you can do some insane damage by simple switching to ravager and Sweeping Strikes. Or you can go all out and go Trauma and Fervor as well for maximum aoe damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zvr View Post
    Hello, I would like to ask some general questions about arms in mythic TOS.
    I'm new and the only warrior in my guild right now and it's expected of me to perform as best as possible as arms.
    Unfortunatelly for me I was Fury for most of the time (especially in Nighthold) and rarely played arms competetively so please be advised that I'm no warrior expert by any means but I want to help my guildies as much as I can.
    I've read this compendium and I've been practicing for a few weeks so I know how arms 'works'.

    First of all - I have only Ayala ring, no legendary helm so I'm little handicapped in this matter. But obtaining BIS legendary is a matter of time.
    I won't be able to link logs here (private) but they won't be necessary because I won't ask very specific questions.
    Just need some general tips. And I would really appreciate any kind of help!

    Goroth - easy fight, I can keep up with the rest of my guildies dps-wise, top 5 most of the time so no problem here.
    Demonic Inquisition - the only thing I'm not sure about: to maximize my damage output should I burn my CD's on cooldown later in the fight or should I wait for adds spawn, charge in and melt them with BS? My dps is a little lacking here, but only because I don't know how to optimally use my CDs.
    Harjatan - I'm lost here. I know I should use Trauma and cleave/execute adds as much as possible but they melt long before I even finish my BS. And cast 1 execute max sometimes.
    So I don't know how I should perform in situation like this when rest of the group deals so much cleave damage. If I'm focusing on add cleave - my dps is subpar. If I'm focusing only on boss and sweeping strikes cleave - still beaten by others.
    I'd love any tips regarding this boss.
    Sisters - easy for me like Goroth, I have no problem doing on of the best dps because of long execute phase.
    Desolate Host - same like above - I can pad my dps a little with sweeping strikes and long execute phase so no problems here, my RL is happy.
    Mistress - I have same problem here like with Harjatan. My group has some heavy-cleave classes already and I'm unable to play with sweeping strikes because adds will die too fast. So my dps is horrible because I'm forbidden to even look at them and I don't know how to effectively burn my CDs on this boss.
    Is non-cleave arms even useful on this boss? Or should I ask for bench? Because sincerely I feel like trash when I look at skada.
    Maiden - soon I will have my first attempt on this boss. My guild already killed her but if anyone here could give me some tips how to maximize my dps I'll be very grateful.

    I'm sorry for this wall of text. I've watched some arms povs on YT and logs and I understand fights a little better now but nonetheless I beg you for some more tips. Any help, any answer will be really appreciated!
    Without having to go to far into the weeds even with this information logs would be extremely helpful. seems like most your damage problems are coming from cleave fights. Harjatan you specify that you are using BS ? If this is the case you would want to switch to Ravager as it will allow you to cleave much more damage in short periods of time with the use of extra Mortal Strikes as well as More Executes on the adds. If you haven't used Ravager much yet go practice using it in some Mythic + it is strong in mythic's for the same reason. Mistress if they really don't want you to do any cleave then you will switch to dauntless and Opportunity strikes instead of Sweeping Strikes and Ravager. But as Arms you should still do decent damage on this fight just by using your Bladestorm on CD. If you are allowed to cleave on this fight however you can do some insane damage by simple switching to ravager and Sweeping Strikes. Or you can go all out and go Trauma and Fervor as well for maximum aoe damage.

  3. #363
    Some detailled questions I cannot infer from the compendium:

    * Execute Cooldown Rotation (Assuming T20 4p)
    -> We still use Bladestorm during BC, is it worth making sure to have 2xEP before doing BC+WW to buff the first "T20 MS"?
    -> Is it worth applying Rend before BC? (https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...Arms_T20M.simc, line 71 seems to do this)

    * Execute Procs (Ayalas Ring) above 20%
    -> Lets say I have an Exe Proc and BC+WW come off cooldown at the same time - is it worth to do BC+Exe -> WW instead of BC+WW? (Seems reasonable, but the linked APL does not do this)

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Tseng View Post
    Some detailled questions I cannot infer from the compendium:

    * Execute Cooldown Rotation (Assuming T20 4p)
    -> We still use Bladestorm during BC, is it worth making sure to have 2xEP before doing BC+WW to buff the first "T20 MS"?
    -> Is it worth applying Rend before BC? (https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...Arms_T20M.simc, line 71 seems to do this)
    Came here to ask the exact same question. Maybe it would be even wortwhile to Exe,Exe,CS>BS, then warbreaker if CS didnt procc for the haste buff and continue with BS+Exe/MS with the 12%dmg proc from the helm leg?

  5. #365
    Yeah, put 2x EP up before BC+BS... I generally save WB for BC+BS for that reason, so should I Execute and not get tactician I know I can at least guarantee SD up for CDs. And yeah, rend befor eyou pop BC during Exe.

  6. #366
    Great guide all around, but do you Think you and your Associates will update it to be more rend-build centric?

  7. #367
    Hi! Fast question, do I replace slam for cleave+ww at 2 or more targets? I was a bit unsure while reading the AoE part.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipologic View Post
    Hi! Fast question, do I replace slam for cleave+ww at 2 or more targets? I was a bit unsure while reading the AoE part.
    Yep. Dont spam WW though. Use cleave+WW and if cleave is on CD use slam instead. Prioritizing CS+MS obviously.

  9. #369
    Question about how bladestorm fits into execute phase. Is it dropped entirely or do we still use bladestorm/bc for execute phase?

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinJim View Post
    Question about how bladestorm fits into execute phase. Is it dropped entirely or do we still use bladestorm/bc for execute phase?
    You still use BC/BS. Make sure you have SD up and apply rend before using BC/BS.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by l10f View Post
    You still use BC/BS. Make sure you have SD up and apply rend before using BC/BS.
    In addition you would be sure to have 2x EP stacks present on the target and Rend applied if talented. Rend isn't worth using in execute phase outside of BC but it is during.
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  12. #372
    So I'm coming back to wow and Warrior after stopping in Nighthold before the Arms buffs. I never got into fury, miss old fury, always enjoyed arms better etc.

    From an ease of use and low skill standpoint, which spec of arms is quicker/easier to learn so I can jump back into raiding?

    This is my armory if it helps: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...zad/farnswarth

    I have Helm, Feet, and WW Belt all 940.

    I understand different fights different talents excel and switching is best, but I don't even know the fights yet and am going in blind basically so I won't have time to learn both right away. I was thinking going Rend build since I probably can't go wrong.
    Top 100 World Progression.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyiee View Post
    So I'm coming back to wow and Warrior after stopping in Nighthold before the Arms buffs. I never got into fury, miss old fury, always enjoyed arms better etc.

    From an ease of use and low skill standpoint, which spec of arms is quicker/easier to learn so I can jump back into raiding?

    This is my armory if it helps: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...zad/farnswarth

    I have Helm, Feet, and WW Belt all 940.

    I understand different fights different talents excel and switching is best, but I don't even know the fights yet and am going in blind basically so I won't have time to learn both right away. I was thinking going Rend build since I probably can't go wrong.
    FoB and Trauma is definitely the least demanding in terms of skill, but if you can manage one dot (rend) and remember to use Slam as filler than you'll see a much smoother style of gameplay vs FoB/Trauma.

    Being that you do not have Ayala's Stone Heart or Archavon's Heavy hand though, you will still be playing at a disadvantage. Give both flavors a try, but I would highly recommend playing Rend/TM given the legendary items you have especially.
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  14. #374
    I'm currently 895 and my Arms and Fury artifacts are nearly identical, I think Arms is 910 and Fury is 901. I dont have tier or any legendaries, but Arms is doing like 150-200k less than Fury is. Does that even out once I get tier and stuff? Because it seems like, without Tactician procs, Arms does absolute shit damage. Might be my ilvl and gear.

  15. #375
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    So let me get this straight. In execute phase you do not want to use rend? Also you want to reapply rend per compendium before the rend timer runs out? Figure you'd reapply it right after rend timer is done to get max bleed out of it.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    So let me get this straight. In execute phase you do not want to use rend? Also you want to reapply rend per compendium before the rend timer runs out? Figure you'd reapply it right after rend timer is done to get max bleed out of it.
    You don't use rend in execute phase until you're about to use BC. Then you apply rend then use BC/BS.

    If you reapply rend with a short duration (2s?) remaining it gets added to the duration so you don't lose any damage. You want to use it before it actually expires for maximum uptime.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by l10f View Post
    You don't use rend in execute phase until you're about to use BC. Then you apply rend then use BC/BS.

    If you reapply rend with a short duration (2s?) remaining it gets added to the duration so you don't lose any damage. You want to use it before it actually expires for maximum uptime.
    2.4 seconds, and you don't use it in Execute phase at all, even for BC(or at least the difference between doing it and not doing it is super small)

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    2.4 seconds, and you don't use it in Execute phase at all, even for BC(or at least the difference between doing it and not doing it is super small)
    thank you for your response. I'm all about maximizing my DPS.

  19. #379
    I got the execute ring off of a chest but the proc rate is...too low to be any noticable for me. Felt very underwhelming, even knowing it is the best legendary for arms.
    Honestly, the heroic leap shoulders were much satisfying to have due to the awesome mobility, yet the ring procs only on rare ocasions for me.

    Btw yes I know about the nerf to the proc rate, but I didnt think it would be that noticable. Sometimes I get 5 or less procs for a 5 minute fight.

  20. #380
    It may not be as satisfying as leaping around with the legendary shoulders. But if it's just the bottom line on the DPS you are interested in then they are very good (even after the nerf).

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