The Arms Compendium

[Azzurri]

Hey guys,

I could really use some help or tips and tricks to increase my dps. I don't have logs sorry, but my dps is much lower than what my sims say. I look at the guides and change up my talents depending on the fight, I pretty sure I have the rotation down, but for some reason my dps is bad. My ilvl is 906 and my trinkets are pretty poor so that doesn't help.

I think I know the reason, bosses like harji and siszine when adds spawn, what should be the main priority? Should I focus on them with cleave then WW, and then get those Execute cleave onto the boss? What's the best plan on these bosses to get optimal dps?

Thanks.

[orgonutil]

Hey guys,

I could really use some help or tips and tricks to increase my dps. I don't have logs sorry, but my dps is much lower than what my sims say. I look at the guides and change up my talents depending on the fight, I pretty sure I have the rotation down, but for some reason my dps is bad. My ilvl is 906 and my trinkets are pretty poor so that doesn't help.

I think it might be I'm not cleaving off the boss or onto for that etxra excute dmg? Is this a huge dps increase?

ANything would help

cant really help without logs, but in fights with adds sometimes is really hard to be on par with the best logs becouse it depends a lot on the raid composition and the group strategy / execution. Cleave always will be an increase

[Azzurri]

cant really help without logs, but in fights with adds sometimes is really hard to be on par with the best logs becouse it depends a lot on the raid composition and the group strategy / execution. Cleave always will be an increase

Yea, I figured that much. Another question when you take trauma but not FoB you still prioritze slam over WW, but with multiple adds you cleave then WW spam until execute range?

Another question: On the Des. Host spirit realm add phases, do you focus down the little adds as fast as possible and leave the priestess up until they cast their ability so you can remove the bone armor in the corp. realm?

[Archimtiros]

Yea, I figured that much. Another question when you take trauma but not FoB you still prioritze slam over WW, but with multiple adds you cleave then WW spam until execute range?

Another question: On the Des. Host spirit realm add phases, do you focus down the little adds as fast as possible and leave the priestess up until they cast their ability so you can remove the bone armor in the corp. realm?

FoB is a single target talent, not an AoE one, so yes - if you take Trauma but not FoB, you still use WW on multiple targets.
On Host, you attack the queen and cleave onto the smaller adds, to keep them alive for as long as possible. Once they're in Execute phase, you can switch it up and cleave off of them for Execute/EP. On mythic, groups typically pull one priestess out of the melee, and leave it up so that they can always break bone armor.

[Azzurri]

FoB is a single target talent, not an AoE one, so yes - if you take Trauma but not FoB, you still use WW on multiple targets.
On Host, you attack the queen and cleave onto the smaller adds, to keep them alive for as long as possible. Once they're in Execute phase, you can switch it up and cleave off of them for Execute/EP. On mythic, groups typically pull one priestess out of the melee, and leave it up so that they can always break bone armor.

Awesome, thanks!

[Phookah]

Question... Are we supposed to use MS on cooldown with Rend/TM build? I've read the guide and such and it only has MS on the priority list if it has SD or EP procs up, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

And if we don't use MS on CD with said build, why not? Slam and MS cost the same rage, but MS has higher damage.

Confused on this and would appreciate some clarity, thanks!

[Warllyz]

Question... Are we supposed to use MS on cooldown with Rend/TM build? I've read the guide and such and it only has MS on the priority list if it has SD or EP procs up, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

And if we don't use MS on CD with said build, why not? Slam and MS cost the same rage, but MS has higher damage.

Confused on this and would appreciate some clarity, thanks!

Slight misread on your part, you use MS with SD up, or with NO EP procs. You don't want to waste an EP proc on a base MS without the SD proc as well I think is the idea. Hope this helps.

[Phookah]

Slight misread on your part, you use MS with SD up, or with NO EP procs. You don't want to waste an EP proc on a base MS without the SD proc as well I think is the idea. Hope this helps.

Gotcha, so use it on CD? (until execute phase at which point execute priority takes place obviously) I don't have ring, so won't be getting EP procs until then.

[Warllyz]

Basically, you could still get EP procs from SS on low health add cleave, though.

[Drtydeeds]

I really wish the guide(s) would clarify that better as that question gets asked every.day. on the WoW forums, here, and in Discord... but it's definitely in there regardless.

[Zensunni]

I really wish the guide(s) would clarify that better as that question gets asked every.day. on the WoW forums, here, and in Discord... but it's definitely in there regardless.

The guide is unhelpful on a lot of things. The trinket sims, for example, fly in the face of logs, which show very, very few top logs using cradle. Furthermore, ravager has become almost universal in usage, and CoF has become very very common again; the guide mentions these in passing, for sure, but I personally am still a little up in the air as to what the top trinkets are this tier.

[Drtydeeds]

The guide is unhelpful on a lot of things. The trinket sims, for example, fly in the face of logs, which show very, very few top logs using cradle. Furthermore, ravager has become almost universal in usage, and CoF has become very very common again; the guide mentions these in passing, for sure, but I personally am still a little up in the air as to what the top trinkets are this tier.

As for trinket usage, there's some guidelines/rules of thumb to follow - largely based on fight mechanics and your raid groups kill time etc.

My suggestion would be to use the guide as a suggestion then hop in the warrior class discord to talk the finer points and the decide what you will equip on a fight per fight basis.

[orgonutil]

The guide is unhelpful on a lot of things. The trinket sims, for example, fly in the face of logs, which show very, very few top logs using cradle. Furthermore, ravager has become almost universal in usage, and CoF has become very very common again; the guide mentions these in passing, for sure, but I personally am still a little up in the air as to what the top trinkets are this tier.

the guide just show a rank based on perfect conditions, dont say that you need to acept the list without to think about the trinkets, Cradle is good but obviously lose value when you drop below 50% life in the fight, same with maiden trinket when you cant get all orbs, same with umbral when boss move outside damage are etc etc, this guide isnot a bible and ravanger shines becouse the situations in TOS are not the same that are in the sims (long fight without any cleave or aoe)

[Rufio]

As for trinket usage, there's some guidelines/rules of thumb to follow - largely based on fight mechanics and your raid groups kill time etc.

My suggestion would be to use the guide as a suggestion then hop in the warrior class discord to talk the finer points and the decide what you will equip on a fight per fight basis.

This, you can switch between trinkets per trinkets.
This link is pretty good:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ty=4&spec=Arms

Don't get fooled by CoF, yes it's good with ravager ST since you'll get extra BC/Rav BUT you have to look at the killtime, esp time <20%. If your raid is killing the boss a lot slower then OpS beats ravager. Also if people in your raid are dying a lot Memento will be the best trinket you can get

[Archimtiros]

The guide is unhelpful on a lot of things. The trinket sims, for example, fly in the face of logs, which show very, very few top logs using cradle. Furthermore, ravager has become almost universal in usage, and CoF has become very very common again; the guide mentions these in passing, for sure, but I personally am still a little up in the air as to what the top trinkets are this tier.

It's pretty obvious that cradle loses potential if you can't keep up the buff, something that varies wildly from encounter to encounter, just like Specter sims well despite the common understanding that most bosses don't stand still the entire fight.

The reason top trinkets are up in the air is because there's no singular overriding winner, such as Draught or CoF/Moonglaives for Fury. Therefore, each individual is going to have slightly different results, based on what they have available at a high ilevel. None of that is the guides fault, it's been said over and over again both here and on other resources on the web that these things are guidelines, since it's impossible to predict every individual players experience - some players never go beyond LFR/Normal mode, so Cradle probably will be best in slot, as they never fall below 50% health, other players will be progressing on mythic Kil'jaeden, where incoming damage is quite high. While I fully agree that some things could be a bit more dummy proofed, ultimately it's up to the reader to apply some critical thinking skills.

[Drtydeeds]

Say what!? reading comprehension is required?!?!?!

[zvr]

Hello, I would like to ask some general questions about arms in mythic TOS.
I'm new and the only warrior in my guild right now and it's expected of me to perform as best as possible as arms.
Unfortunatelly for me I was Fury for most of the time (especially in Nighthold) and rarely played arms competetively so please be advised that I'm no warrior expert by any means but I want to help my guildies as much as I can.
I've read this compendium and I've been practicing for a few weeks so I know how arms 'works'.

First of all - I have only Ayala ring, no legendary helm so I'm little handicapped in this matter. But obtaining BIS legendary is a matter of time.
I won't be able to link logs here (private) but they won't be necessary because I won't ask very specific questions.
Just need some general tips. And I would really appreciate any kind of help!

Goroth - easy fight, I can keep up with the rest of my guildies dps-wise, top 5 most of the time so no problem here.
Demonic Inquisition - the only thing I'm not sure about: to maximize my damage output should I burn my CD's on cooldown later in the fight or should I wait for adds spawn, charge in and melt them with BS? My dps is a little lacking here, but only because I don't know how to optimally use my CDs.
Harjatan - I'm lost here. I know I should use Trauma and cleave/execute adds as much as possible but they melt long before I even finish my BS. And cast 1 execute max sometimes.
So I don't know how I should perform in situation like this when rest of the group deals so much cleave damage. If I'm focusing on add cleave - my dps is subpar. If I'm focusing only on boss and sweeping strikes cleave - still beaten by others.
I'd love any tips regarding this boss.
Sisters - easy for me like Goroth, I have no problem doing on of the best dps because of long execute phase.
Desolate Host - same like above - I can pad my dps a little with sweeping strikes and long execute phase so no problems here, my RL is happy.
Mistress - I have same problem here like with Harjatan. My group has some heavy-cleave classes already and I'm unable to play with sweeping strikes because adds will die too fast. So my dps is horrible because I'm forbidden to even look at them and I don't know how to effectively burn my CDs on this boss.
Is non-cleave arms even useful on this boss? Or should I ask for bench? Because sincerely I feel like trash when I look at skada.
Maiden - soon I will have my first attempt on this boss. My guild already killed her but if anyone here could give me some tips how to maximize my dps I'll be very grateful.

I'm sorry for this wall of text. I've watched some arms povs on YT and logs and I understand fights a little better now but nonetheless I beg you for some more tips. Any help, any answer will be really appreciated!

[Prime92]

One thing is bothering me for a couple of days now. As far as the opener with t20 (with BS) is concerned in the compendium, wouldn't it be a bit better if we used MS before BC+BS so that it consumes the SD charge and goes on CD, which refreshes during BS uptime? This one MS does not guarantee a crit and makes our first MS from 4pt20 a bit weaker, but still we're 1 MS ahead and one GCD behind on BC+BS, which would only matter if you always had to hit CDs in a perfect moment during encounter ot ideally at the end of it, which is basically never the case.

[Archimtiros]

One thing is bothering me for a couple of days now. As far as the opener with t20 (with BS) is concerned in the compendium, wouldn't it be a bit better if we used MS before BC+BS so that it consumes the SD charge and goes on CD, which refreshes during BS uptime? This one MS does not guarantee a crit and makes our first MS from 4pt20 a bit weaker, but still we're 1 MS ahead and one GCD behind on BC+BS, which would only matter if you always had to hit CDs in a perfect moment during encounter ot ideally at the end of it, which is basically never the case.

• If you use MS before BC+BS, then SD is consumed without being buffed by Battle Cry.
• If you don't use MS, the 4p will automatically cast MS during Bladestorm and consume SD while being buffed by Battle Cry.

[Prime92]

• If you use MS before BC+BS, then SD is consumed without being buffed by Battle Cry.
• If you don't use MS, the 4p will automatically cast MS during Bladestorm and consume SD while being buffed by Battle Cry.

Yup, I know that. The thing is, MS with SD has about 50% CC, BC guarantees MS crit+adds damage due to Blood of Zakjiz or whatever its called. In case we used MS before BC+BS, we're 1 MS ahead which may or may not crit with SD buff. In case we don't, we're ahead by 20% of additional 50% on MS with a guaranteed crit (blood trait) and guaranteed additional dmg from the crit. The difference is not significant, but still. I just don't really know how to estimate which one would be better long term. Or, rephrasing, did you consider this while writing the compendium and did the math?