Could the Nazis ever have successfully invaded the USA?

[Sierra85]

The only way the Nazis could successfully take USA is only after they had conquered and assimilated the rest of Europe into their forces. This wouldve taken some years, and then Hitler wouldve made his move.

Factor in as well that Japan would've taken the rest of the pacific, it would have been Europe + Pacific states vs America. A war that America would most likely lose without Nuclear Weapons.

[Mayhem]

U-boats also suffered horrendous losses that were not sustainable, 780+ boats were lost in the war out of ~1150 built. That is a loss rate of ~67%. They sank ~2300 merchant ships for a loss of 13.5 million tons. The US and Commonwealth countries built over 46 million tons of shipping during the same period. Add to that the fact u-boat losses were going up while successful attacks were going down over the last 3 years of the war. In May 1943 alone, the Germans lost 25% of the active fleet.

Hmm i read they sank 3500 merchant and 175 war ships. Anyway, yep they suffered alot of losses in the later years.

[BuckSparkles]

I don't think they could. USA is decently sized, with good production facilities. Oh an the 2nd helps have a more armed population.

[Mayhem]

I don't think they could. USA is decently sized, with good production facilities. Oh an the 2nd helps have a more armed population.

It´s very improbable, yes.

[Berengil]

The only way the Nazis could successfully take USA is only after they had conquered and assimilated the rest of Europe into their forces. This wouldve taken some years, and then Hitler wouldve made his move.

Factor in as well that Japan would've taken the rest of the pacific, it would have been Europe + Pacific states vs America. A war that America would most likely lose without Nuclear Weapons.

Mostly right. In a scenario where the US doesnt enter WW2 I see it going something like this:

Japan avoids going full stupid and carefully avoids attacking any US possessions in the Pacific

they focus on SE Asia to Burma to India while holding the line in China

Roosevelt can't get public opinion on his side for a declaration of war without a direct attack

war grinds on through 42-43 in something of a stalemate without US help

Churchill's government falls due to waning public support without US backing, Halifax becomes Prime Minister

Halifax offers Hitler an armistice that leaves UK overseas possessions intact and leaves the Royal Navy untouched

Halifax offers Japan the same terms with one promise: Indian independence within 5 years, which removes UK strength from South Asia

In return, all POWs on all sides are repatriated and Japan agrees to avoid Australia and NZ, and allow UK citizens to reclaim their property in Hong Kong

Without any prospect of outside help, China collapses into competing warlords that Japan plays off against each other

Japan then turns north and they double team the USSR with Germany

war ends with Germany in control of continental Europe from Gibraltar to the Urals, as well as N Africa

Japan has mainland Asia and the Pacific other than US territory

Cold War is three way: Japan/Nazis/US+UK

[draynay]

Japan was compelled to attack by the oil embargo imposed upon them by the western powers, there was nothing stupid about their attack, it was an inevitability, the stupidity belonged to the west in failing to recognize that inevitability and adequately prepare for it.

The embargo put Japan into a position of having to either completely abandon its imperialist policies, giving up China and going home, suffering a loss of face that would have precipitated massive political turmoil and a whole lot of military leaders falling on their swords, or attacking the British and American possessions in a bid to secure the necessary resources that were being denied to them. This objective could not be achieved with the US Navy close at hand to intercede, they had the slimmest chance of holding onto their gains only if the US Navy was too crippled to respond.

A delay would do Japan no favors, only further depleting their reserves of oil. Complying with the western demands would have been as fundamentally impossible as Hitler not invading the Soviet Union, it was completely counter to their established policy and no reasonable hypothetical should consider it.

[Hiricine]

Theres almost no chance the Nazis would have ever had a chance outside of a re-aligning of the factions of WW2. The war is almost always pitched as a even good-versus- evil fight, in reality, by the time the Allied war machine had ramped up, the USA and Russia could have each single handedly defeated Germany and Japan at the same time, the Nazis simply didnt have the numbers or the guns to pull it off. Their only chance would have been a diplomatic solution with the Russia or the US which was extremely unlikely.

[cuafpr]

history channel had a show on this years ago... with plans found showing a planned invasion along the NC,SC,GA beaches as they are the most open to invasion, and then a march to DC.

[Merie]

If Germany set up a bargaining table for Russia they could have brought them to heel and secured their resources. Instead, there was no bargaining table. The Germans seemed interested in just obliterating the Russians instead of discussing terms. If they had, things may have been different. Instead I just don't see Germany mustering the oil to invade and fight America on our home turf.

[mmburntcheez]

You're quite blinded by patriotism. Germany had air superiority over the British, but they wasted it by switching bombing targets throughout the campaign. The German focus on London actually saved the British in the end.

Actually only in the early part of Blitzkrieg Germany had air superiority over the British. The British at the time only had the early variants of the Spitfire such as the MkI and MkII along with the Hurricane MkI and MkII which were slow, lacked firepower and under performed against the FW 190 and ME 109 and the Stukka Ju-87. It wasn't until after Blitzkrieg did Germany see their Luftwaffe beaten by Britain's Spitfire MKV, MkIX, XIV, and Mk22 and Mk24 variants.

[yetgdhfgh]

Thing is IF Nazi Germany DID Control nearly all the world just think how much cannon fodder they could send to invade the US? I mean you can make a human do anything at the butt of a rifle.

When you have unlimited resources and a utter UTTER disregard for human life then anything is possible just ask the ancient Egyptians and the Chinese! Bottom line is if Nazi Germany and Japan controlled nearly the whole world and they had access to unlimitless resources and disposable people then they couldve hit the US with wave after wave and there brutality for those who fought back wouldve meant utter destruction for the US.

[Easo]

Thing is IF Nazi Germany DID Control nearly all the world just think how much cannon fodder they could send to invade the US? I mean you can make a human do anything at the butt of a rifle.

When you have unlimited resources and a utter UTTER disregard for human life then anything is possible just ask the ancient Egyptians and the Chinese! Bottom line is if Nazi Germany and Japan controlled nearly the whole world and they had access to unlimitless resources and disposable people then they couldve hit the US with wave after wave and there brutality for those who fought back wouldve meant utter destruction for the US.

1. Dominance on seas which would only increase as time passes. Would not matter if Japan won in China, not enough big dockyards. In Europe, as long as UK stands, germans would not get any further than Eastern Atlantic and would hug the coastlines.
2. Logistics.
3. Nukes. USA had a lead in nuclear tech. And as more and more time passes, more nukes, with faster production. Especially on German/Japanese ports.
4. The insane industrial capacity of USA. As the war ended, USA had a bit more than HALF of the world's production capacities and it was still growing. We all know USSR made crazy amount of tanks, biggest ever of all warring sides in WW2. It it is not even close to what USA could do in total. To give an example, 3x Liberty ships - each day (in 1943), destroyer - each three days. Even carriers, which are massive investment, were more or less getting spammed.
5. Almost all countries in North and South Americas went to Allies. USA would not stand alone.

[yetgdhfgh]

1. Dominance on seas which would only increase as time passes. Would not matter if Japan won in China, not enough big dockyards. In Europe, as long as UK stands, germans would not get any further than Eastern Atlantic and would hug the coastlines.
2. Logistics.
3. Nukes. USA had a lead in nuclear tech. And as more and more time passes, more nukes, with faster production. Especially on German/Japanese ports.
4. The insane industrial capacity of USA. As the war ended, USA had a bit more than HALF of the world's production capacities and it was still growing. We all know USSR made crazy amount of tanks, biggest ever of all warring sides in WW2. It it is not even close to what USA could do in total. To give an example, 3x Liberty ships - each day (in 1943), destroyer - each three days. Even carriers, which are massive investment, were more or less getting spammed.
5. Almost all countries in North and South Americas went to Allies. USA would not stand alone.

The US really didnt go all out for nuclear production until 1942 and that was when the US was in the full swing of WW2 this hypothetical question is about had the US delayed its entry into WW2 for at least a year where the germans wouldve went rampant into the soviet union and the U-Boats would strangled Britain into submission.

You must remember not all of south America was Americas allies i mean the reason America went into ww1 was because germany was fermenting rebellion in Mexico so they could retake the US southwest.

And as powerful as US production was it is nothing compared to what a country that can control nealy all the worlds resources and has the blatant disregard for human life to throw at it!

The Nazis dont forget had no qualms about using slave labour!

[Easo]

The US really didnt go all out for nuclear production until 1942 and that was when the US was in the full swing of WW2 this hypothetical question is about had the US delayed its entry into WW2 for at least a year where the germans wouldve went rampant into the soviet union and the U-Boats would strangled Britain into submission.

You must remember not all of south America was Americas allies i mean the reason America went into ww1 was because germany was fermenting rebellion in Mexico so they could retake the US southwest.

And as powerful as US production was it is nothing compared to what a country that can control nealy all the worlds resources and has the blatant disregard for human life to throw at it!

USA started to prepare their warmachine back in 1939. Year would not have changed their capacity, except they would lack some experience. And you forget what resources were controlled by USA. They wouldn't starve or run out of oil.

Assuming russians lost the war, it still means not the smallest losses for germans, losses they' cant really recover for years.
And remember, Russians were to be mostly exterminated. Goes against forming them in mass meatshield. Whats more, pray tell, how you are going to use that human life (which still has to be armed, fed and trained, yes, even for meatshields to make them even a bit useful) when you can't get them across the ocean? Assuming you land them somewhere, logistics to support them does not exist. If Germany would have won, it would have taken years to even get blue water navy. And I am not talking about navy to fight US fleets, but just navy as such plus all the support vessels. The same ones USA was making three per day. And then there is Britain, which won the Blitz. Sure, germans have the resources now, but... again, have to manufacture stuff too, while brits are getting stronger and stronger, thanks to USA, who were suplying them from 1940, IIRC.
And can you really imagine germans just throwing manpower away, even if it is not pure blooded german one?
P.S.
Ah, yes Monroe doctrine and it's impact on Central and South Americas. No one was insane enough to challenge USA there. German help was way too far away before retribution would have come. Ah, and... germans don't have the fleet. And they wouldn't, for years. Any hostility against USA in the region and a new puppet goverment would happen after intervention.
Japan? Japan lost the war the moment they started it.

[yetgdhfgh]

USA started to prepare their warmachine back in 1939. Year would not have changed their capacity, except they would lack some experience. And you forget what resources were controlled by USA. They wouldn't starve or run out of oil.

Assuming russians lost the war, it still means not the smallest losses for germans, losses they' cant really recover for years.
And remember, Russians were to be mostly exterminated. Goes against forming them in mass meatshield. Whats more, pray tell, how you are going to use that human life (which still has to be armed, fed and trained, yes, even for meatshields to make them even a bit useful) when you can't get them across the ocean? Assuming you land them somewhere, logistics to support them does not exist. If Germany would have won, it would have taken years to even get blue water navy. And I am not talking about navy to fight US fleets, but just navy as such plus all the support vessels. The same ones USA was making three per day. And then there is Britain, which won the Blitz. Sure, germans have the resources now, but... again, have to manufacture stuff too, while brits are getting stronger and stronger, thanks to USA, who were suplying them from 1940, IIRC.
And can you really imagine germans just throwing manpower away, even if it is not pure blooded german one?
P.S.
Ah, yes Monroe doctrine and it's impact on Central and South Americas. No one was insane enough to challenge USA there. German help was way too far away before retribution would have come. Ah, and... germans don't have the fleet. And they wouldn't, for years. Any hostility against USA in the region and a new puppet goverment would happen after intervention.
Japan? Japan lost the war the moment they started it.

The Germans couldve taken the Royal Navy in a peace deal with the British.

This scenario is about had the Germans taken everything in Europe and Russia and then had the Japanese taken everything in asia.

Also remember alot of countries in eastern europe that hated the communists joined forces with the germans plus how many others at the end of a rifle couldve been sent to fight the americans?

[Kellhound]

The Germans couldve taken the Royal Navy in a peace deal with the British.

This scenario is about had the Germans taken everything in Europe and Russia and then had the Japanese taken everything in asia.

Also remember alot of countries in eastern europe that hated the communists joined forces with the germans plus how many others at the end of a rifle couldve been sent to fight the americans?

The Brits would have never given up the Royal Navy.

[draynay]

The Brits would have never given up the Royal Navy.

Exactly, the British destroyed elements of the French navy to keep them from falling into German hands, but they'll just hand over their own?

Why are the British surrendering? They were winning on their fronts before any US soliders ever made their way to Europe or Africa, and as added bonus in your scenario all of their asian territories are intact.

[Kokolums]

No because ( assuming Germany and Russia never went to war), by the time nazi Germany had some sort of army ready to invade the US, both the US and Nazi Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and everything would just fall into a cold war driven by MAD.

[caervek]

Mostly right. In a scenario where the US doesnt enter WW2 I see it going something like this:

Japan avoids going full stupid and carefully avoids attacking any US possessions in the Pacific

they focus on SE Asia to Burma to India while holding the line in China

Roosevelt can't get public opinion on his side for a declaration of war without a direct attack

war grinds on through 42-43 in something of a stalemate without US help

Churchill's government falls due to waning public support without US backing, Halifax becomes Prime Minister

Halifax offers Hitler an armistice that leaves UK overseas possessions intact and leaves the Royal Navy untouched

Halifax offers Japan the same terms with one promise: Indian independence within 5 years, which removes UK strength from South Asia

In return, all POWs on all sides are repatriated and Japan agrees to avoid Australia and NZ, and allow UK citizens to reclaim their property in Hong Kong

Without any prospect of outside help, China collapses into competing warlords that Japan plays off against each other

Japan then turns north and they double team the USSR with Germany

war ends with Germany in control of continental Europe from Gibraltar to the Urals, as well as N Africa

Japan has mainland Asia and the Pacific other than US territory

Cold War is three way: Japan/Nazis/US+UK

Quite good up to a point, however there was never any danger of the Churchill's government losing public support, the more the Nazi's targeted civillians the more it solidified the people against them.

Secondly, even if Roosevelt had never managed to get a declaration of war Germany would still have been defeated, US/UK aid had allowed the USSR to stay in the fight long enough to power up the steamroller and Germany had lost before the first bomb fell on Pearl Harbour. The main reason the allies stormed the beaches and pushed to Berlin wasn't to beat Germany it was because they were worried that Stalin wouldn't stop at Berlin.

[ItachiZaku]

German's had nothing to stop the Bear Jew.