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  1. #21
    Over 9000! Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    In 7.1 that will be changing. The 3 second contrition brings everything back in line and devalues haste.
    Are you advocating contrition is a contender in that tier? Against PI and ToF? That sounds unbelievable to me

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bareturtle View Post
    So you're selecting PI but not utilizing the portion of the spell that is a HPS gain?
    What, you think I'm hitting 3-4 PWRs and then not casting?

    Nice bait, 10/10 got me to reply
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  3. #23
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Are you advocating contrition is a contender in that tier? Against PI and ToF? That sounds unbelievable to me
    Yes. 3s was very good on Beta. PI gives you about an extra 2-2.5 seconds on your atonements. But PI only benefits your bursts whereas Contrition benefits both your conserve and burst phases. It will come down to Contrition vs ToF for progression with the deciding factor being ToF uptime as it is on live.

    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    What, you think I'm hitting 3-4 PWRs and then not casting?

    Nice bait, 10/10 got me to reply
    No, hes referring to the fact that you use PI to get out 4-6 PWR's in order to set up for much higher bursts. And doing that effectively cancels out the mana savings from it.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I'm just finding it a bit fishy that a secondary stat is being valued so much higher than primary, really. Blizzard has strived over the expansions to ensure that Int is always the best stat.
    I dunno about other classes but at least for shadow haste is valued a lot more then int, crit is valued more as well.
    If anything, Blizzard messed up majorly with the stats this expansion.

  5. #25
    Over 9000! Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl1717 View Post
    Yes. 3s was very good on Beta. PI gives you about an extra 2-2.5 seconds on your atonements. But PI only benefits your bursts whereas Contrition benefits both your conserve and burst phases. It will come down to Contrition vs ToF for progression with the deciding factor being ToF uptime as it is on live.



    No, hes referring to the fact that you use PI to get out 4-6 PWR's in order to set up for much higher bursts. And doing that effectively cancels out the mana savings from it.
    I've only ever seen contrition mentioned as a training wheels talent along with penitent. an extra 3 seconds is extending an easily applicable buff by 20%. Can you explain your response better? How does power infusion lead to an extra 2-2.5 seconds on atonement, you've got me confused here. Is this in a situation where we're applying to the entire raid instead of priority targets?

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    I've only ever seen contrition mentioned as a training wheels talent along with penitent. an extra 3 seconds is extending an easily applicable buff by 20%. Can you explain your response better? How does power infusion lead to an extra 2-2.5 seconds on atonement, you've got me confused here. Is this in a situation where we're applying to the entire raid instead of priority targets?
    At 2s it is a "training wheels" talent.

    PI leads to an extra 2-2.5 seconds because with the increased haste you can stack up to lets say 12-15 atonements faster, giving you an extra about 2 seconds of dps time on your first few applications of atonement. It gives you more time to heal those initial targets. And yes, this is an instance of applying it to the whole raid rather than a few targets because that is the purpose of PI.

    With contrition we'll see more frequent and consistent 12 person bursts, while maintaining higher numbers of atonements in our conserve phase due to the extra 3s (and also because of SD, which will likely be the go to in 7.1). Contrition+SD actually takes us further from being "burst" healers and more towards consistent throughput healers.
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  7. #27
    I'll be producing videos this week for all Emerald Nightmare bosses in Heroic with commentary, as well as the first 4 bosses in Mythic. Stay tuned.

  8. #28
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    I'll be producing videos this week for all Emerald Nightmare bosses in Heroic with commentary, as well as the first 4 bosses in Mythic. Stay tuned.
    We have a thread for those btw, we are quite lacking disc videos.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    We have a thread for those btw, we are quite lacking disc videos.
    Excellent, I'll link them there as well!

    I have one full heroic raid (1hr long roughly). I'll link that one there for now.

  10. #30
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    Excellent, I'll link them there as well!

    I have one full heroic raid (1hr long roughly). I'll link that one there for now.
    If you could cut that out to the format that's already there, it would be easier.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    If you could cut that out to the format that's already there, it would be easier.
    I posted the 3 Mythic videos I have and will have Dragons + Il'gynoth to add this week.

    I'll wait to post the heroic ones until later this week after I can overlay commentary to them for folks. I was commentating during the actual attempts but I was sick with an upper respiratory infection and had to quit talking half way through. I'd rather a better final product be out there than that one anyway. :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Are you advocating contrition is a contender in that tier? Against PI and ToF? That sounds unbelievable to me
    ToF will still be worth taking with high uptime, just like it is today. Contrition will replace PI for the reason Pearl gave; 3 seconds to Atonement from Contrition is more than PI provided (2-2.5 seconds). This will allow us to have an extra 3 seconds to our burst damage period, effectively upping our HPS. We could also choose to PW:R one extra time.

    I may have misspoke regarding haste being devalued from where it is at today, since I did not take into account the mana regen of Shield Discipline and how haste will increase your mana regen. Because of Shield Discipline, Haste might actually go up slightly in terms of value. I think there is more discussion to be had among myself and others before I can say for sure if haste will remain the same, go down because of our increased burst window, or be valued higher because of Shield Discipline.

  12. #32
    Hey. Quick question about pawn. Why does it tell me certain gear with crit/vers which is 880 ring is better then a 860 high haste mastery ring? I think it's following the stat weights that I imported according to the guide give me 10% versatility total. But I noticed you don't have any versa gear at all. So why does pawn say these items are better? I'm using the dungeon stat weights. I raid as shadow.

  13. #33
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Set your stam weight to 0 and not 0.1.

  14. #34
    i set it to 0 and its still telling me a crit vers 870 piece is better then a 850 haste/mastery piece

  15. #35
    Mechagnome Pearl1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidice View Post
    i set it to 0 and its still telling me a crit vers 870 piece is better then a 850 haste/mastery piece
    Do you have the right profile loaded? Are you sure you arent using the default disc pawn profile (everything set to .5)?
    Arthas Logs] | Azgalor Logs | Twitch | Pearl91#1607
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidice View Post
    i set it to 0 and its still telling me a crit vers 870 piece is better then a 850 haste/mastery piece
    It might actually just be an upgrade. 20 ilvls of int and secondaries is a lot.

  17. #37
    i cant post an pictures since i dont have enough posts? but here is an example
    best
    ring 1 855
    1147 stam
    534 crit
    1337 haste
    150 haste enchant

    2nd best 850
    ring 2
    1094 stam
    1258 haste
    577 mastery
    150 haste enchant
    150 haste socket

    ring 3 880 (that pawn says is an upgrade by 19%)
    1448 stam
    1174 crit
    880 vers
    150 haste enchant
    150 haste socket
    Last edited by Liquidice; 2016-10-18 at 08:00 PM.

  18. #38
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bareturtle View Post
    It might actually just be an upgrade. 20 ilvls of int and secondaries is a lot.
    Rings have no main stat, ie Int.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidice View Post
    -snip-
    So I just calculated those with the stat weights above and here's what I got for values:

    Raid
    Ring 1 - 1852.79
    Ring 2 - 1978.633
    Ring 3 - 1680.59

    Dungeon

    Ring 1 - 1838.524
    Ring 2 - 1817.531
    Ring 3 - 1607.726

    So for raids and dungeons, Ring 1 and Ring 2 are the best

    Pawn incorrectly calculates sockets so you have to manually figure those out until they fix it (never).

    Excel Calculation (what Pawn does)

  19. #39
    thanks for the break down. the rings i knew something was wrong, but lets compare these chest pieces. same scenario.

    chest 1 850
    1297 int
    1945 stam
    876 haste
    428 crit

    chest 2 870
    1563 int
    2345 stam
    502 vers
    904 mastery

    pawn says 2% upgrade for chest #2

  20. #40
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    2% is correct for raid stats. Chest #1 is better for raids.

    You can check this in excel/google sheets yourself.

    Just make the same cells that I did and input the values for the items for each stat then multiply them by the weights and add it up. That's exactly what pawn does.

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