[7.2] Mend's TLDR Disc Guide

[Dawnrage]

Also can someone help me out here, i was about to try to work out what my personal stat weight's were, but I ran into problems just trying to calculate my smite damage:
I have 36271 int/spellpower, 4.58% versatility, and 34 artifact traits.

My smite is hitting for 117777

I'm getting 2.25*36271*1.15*1.17*1.0458 = 114835

Where's the extra damage coming from? I don't think I've missed anything, i've got my vers, my artifact level (0.5% per trait = 17%), Invoke the Light, i'm not casting it with any atonements (so no sins damage), I don't have ToF specced, or the PvP talent Searing light...

I did a brief test and if I use 1.18 as the increased smite damage value, it matches up, without any versatility on my gear. I don't know if the talent is double dipping from something or is actually 18% more smite damage as opposed to 15%. With versatility the calculation becomes off by just a little for some reason though.

[PosPosPos]

-snip-

Don't forget that's assuming you are starting at 0 mastery, which you are not.

[Jimjam38]

Don't forget that's assuming you are starting at 0 mastery, which you are not.

No, that's including baseline mastery

[lcs]

I did a brief test and if I use 1.18 as the increased smite damage value, it matches up, without any versatility on my gear. I don't know if the talent is double dipping from something or is actually 18% more smite damage as opposed to 15%. With versatility the calculation becomes off by just a little for some reason though.

I notice the same discrepancy. When I remove light's wrath, it goes away (smite does exactly 225% SP damage), so it is something on the artifact interacting strangely.

Also, my light's wrath gives an additional 706 (5%) intellect not accounted for in the tooltip.

Edit---

I think the 5% additional intellect is actually from Armor Skills.

[Jimjam38]

I notice the same discrepancy. When I remove light's wrath, it goes away (smite does exactly 225% SP damage), so it is something on the artifact interacting strangely.

Also, my light's wrath gives an additional 706 (5%) intellect not accounted for in the tooltip.

Edit---

I think the 5% additional intellect is actually from Armor Skills.

Yeah the 5% int would be the level 50 mysticism passive

[lcs]

Yeah the 5% int would be the level 50 mysticism passive

I notice the same discrepancy in Holy as well.

As Disc, if I give myself an additional "6" traits (3% trait damage) and as Holy if I give myself an additional 6 traits (6% trait damage), everything lines up.

Smite Actual Damage:     125077

--Expected--
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Invoke the Light:        1.15   *
Unlocked Traits (32)     1.16   *
                        -------
                        121924
 
--Actual--                        
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Invoke the Light:        1.15   *
Unlocked Traits (32)     1.19   * (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        125077

Smite Actual Damage:  127956

--Expected--
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Unlocked Traits (34)     1.34   *
                        -------
                        122472

--Actual--                        
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Unlocked Traits (34)     1.40   * (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        127956

I noticed the same thing on my paladin, who does not have his 3rd relic slot unlocked.

HS Damage:              124332

--Expected--
Intellect:              27747   *
HS Modifier:             3.50   *
Versatility              1.0669 * 
Unlocked Traits (14)     1.14 =
                        -------
                        118117
                        
--Actual--
Intellect:              27747   *
HS Modifier:             3.50   *
Versatility              1.0669 * 
Unlocked Traits (14)     1.20 =       (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        124333

I think its something related to traits, because it is a 3% increase for Disc, and a 6% increase for Holy / Holy Paladin (and Disc traits are half as effective as both the Holy's).

[PosPosPos]

No, that's including baseline mastery

Wasn't referring to that either, talking about mastery being the second highest stat after haste for most raiding disc priests.

[Jimjam38]

I notice the same discrepancy in Holy as well.

As Disc, if I give myself an additional "6" traits (3% trait damage) and as Holy if I give myself an additional 6 traits (6% trait damage), everything lines up.

Smite Actual Damage:     125077

--Expected--
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Invoke the Light:        1.15   *
Unlocked Traits (32)     1.16   *
                        -------
                        121924
 
--Actual--                        
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Invoke the Light:        1.15   *
Unlocked Traits (32)     1.19   * (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        125077

Smite Actual Damage:  127956

--Expected--
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Unlocked Traits (34)     1.34   *
                        -------
                        122472

--Actual--                        
Intellect:              40621   *
Smite Modifier:          2.25   *
Unlocked Traits (34)     1.40   * (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        127956

I noticed the same thing on my paladin, who does not have his 3rd relic slot unlocked.

HS Damage:              124332

--Expected--
Intellect:              27747   *
HS Modifier:             3.50   *
Versatility              1.0669 * 
Unlocked Traits (14)     1.14 =
                        -------
                        118117
                        
--Actual--
Intellect:              27747   *
HS Modifier:             3.50   *
Versatility              1.0669 * 
Unlocked Traits (14)     1.20 =       (6 extra "traits")
                        -------
                        124333

I think its something related to traits, because it is a 3% increase for Disc, and a 6% increase for Holy / Holy Paladin (and Disc traits are half as effective as both the Holy's).

That's interesting. I wonder that's going on behind the scenes there

[Jimjam38]

I just had a thought - surely there's a breakpoint in the number of atonements, where hps wise it's always better to smite than to use a halo, assuming no overhealing?

[Saiyoran]

I just had a thought - surely there's a breakpoint in the number of atonements, where hps wise it's always better to smite than to use a halo, assuming no overhealing?

Halo hits harder than Smite tho... Unless you're talking about in terms of mana spent?

[Jimjam38]

Halo hits harder than Smite tho... Unless you're talking about in terms of mana spent?

And, unless I'm very much mistaken, halo is capped at 6 targets and only splits the total amount for 6 people among any extra that it hits. Atonement healing is not capped. So at some atonement count your smite will do more total healing than halo.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, I just realized Halo will still proc one instance of atonement, unless you somehow don't hit any enemies with it. Since it's spell power coefficient for damage is higher than that of smite, it should always do more atonement healing than a smite would, in addition to its own healing. Right?

[Jimjam38]

Today's PTR had a bit of a stealth nerf to disc (not really disc specific, but we will feel it), in that rapid innervation reduced from 20% haste to 10%

[Saiyoran]

Actually, I just realized Halo will still proc one instance of atonement, unless you somehow don't hit any enemies with it. Since it's spell power coefficient for damage is higher than that of smite, it should always do more atonement healing than a smite would, in addition to its own healing. Right?

Yes, this is what I meant. Halo hits almost twice as hard as Smite from a quick look at my logs, so the atonement healing would be higher.

[Raiz]

Actually, I just realized Halo will still proc one instance of atonement, unless you somehow don't hit any enemies with it. Since it's spell power coefficient for damage is higher than that of smite, it should always do more atonement healing than a smite would, in addition to its own healing. Right?

Why would you compare Halo with smite and not Divine Star ? Just curious.

[Melchey]

Why would you compare Halo with smite and not Divine Star ? Just curious.

Because in at least the situation they're talking about, you're replacing a filler spell (Smite) with a cooldown (Halo) to get more healing from your atonements. It's kind of like using Penance over a smite; it does more damage and therefore more atonement healing. If you took divine star, you would use it over a smite if you wanted it purely for damage, just like you would halo since they both deal more damage than a smite.

[Noradin]

Why would you compare Halo with smite and not Divine Star ? Just curious.

Same cast time.

[Drexxin]

Is there an updated list to recommended streams or VODs? I get better by watching and before doing Mythic ToV I'd like to study other disc priests with more recent talents / etc.

[Jimjam38]

Same cast time.

Thats still not really relevant in regards to compaing ds vs halo or smite vs halo. Either way its all effectively just 1 gcd.

- - - Updated - - -

Why would you compare Halo with smite and not Divine Star ? Just curious.

Because, if we ignore the fact that halo does proc a single instance of atonement healing (like I did when I forgot about that), then at some number of atonement targets, the total healing of a smite (through atonement healing) would eclipse the total healing of halo. This is because halo, like all standard AoE healing spells, is capped at 6 targets. What it means is say you hit 6 people with halo, and it heals them for 200k each, then the total is 1200k healing. If instead you hit 10 people, then that total 1200k is split between them, so you'd heal them each for 120k, rather than healing them for the full 200k and making the total healing become 2000k. This is what we mean by spliting the healing between targets.

Atonement on the other hand does not split, and is instead limited by the number of atonements you can have active at once, which is dependent on your haste and the length of the atonement buff. If you smite for 100k damage, and it transfers 50k healing, then you heal all atonements for 50k, regardless of whether there are 1, 6 or 15 targets.

Basically what this means is that at some total number of active atonements, because atonement doesnt split the healing, the total healing of a smite would be more than the healing of a halo.

But, because halo actually does also do damage and cause 1 instance of atonement healing as well as its own healing, and the damage of halo is always more than smite, then halo will never do less atonement healing than smite.
Basically halo is always higher priority than smite.

However I've just realized that my original question would actually apply to penance, because its higher damage/atonement than halo. At some atonement count, penance's atonement healing will do more total healing than the combination of halo's healing and halo's atonement healing. The practical implication of this is if you have both off cooldown and theres aoe healing to do, then which is higher output depends on the number of atonements you have active

[Noradin]

Thats still not really relevant in regards to compaing ds vs halo or smite vs halo. Either way its all effectively just 1 gcd.

It is indeed not relevant when comparing halo to ds, but wasn't the original question just to confirm that halo causes more atonement healing than smite per cast and thus it should always be used over smite when a lot of atonements are up since it takes the exact same time?

(Only if healing is actually needed obviously.)

[Jimjam38]

It is indeed not relevant when comparing halo to ds, but wasn't the original question just to confirm that halo causes more atonement healing than smite per cast and thus it should always be used over smite when a lot of atonements are up since it takes the exact same time?

(Only if healing is actually needed obviously.)

No, i mean 'same cast time' wasn't the reason I was comparing smite and halo.