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  1. #361
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    If we cannot frontload atonements anymore but have them more reactively (possible smart heal mechanic for PWR), then maybe we should get some extra stronger dot to frontload the GCDs for damage (extra, because I would prefer a limit of one target to a CD on that one, thus it cannot replace our current one)?

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Blue post promising smart targeting for PWR.

    ...I WON'T use PWR reactively because I need 2 charges for the burst, obviously.
    We probably will have to use Radiance reactively, otherwise we might pre-atone people that end up not really needing it, and then have to watch helplessly as those that do need it start dropping dead. Radiance is going to have to cast a lot faster if thats the case though, because as it stands its a 2.5s cast before even beginning damage spells, way too slow in a burst-damage situation.

    Smart-heals really changes the meta, and makes Disc more like a Resto Shaman with potentially less HPS overall but more useful HPS (on those close to death).

    I've always been super jelly of RShaman mastery...

  3. #363
    I can't really see disc becoming reactive, not with us needing to cast twice for an actual heal in a world of raid cds. Even now, if I don't precast LW I will often end up in huge overhealing. Further more, I don't see the point of changing the proactive nature of the only spec in game that has that. We have plenty of reactive healers.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by longxia View Post
    We probably will have to use Radiance reactively, otherwise we might pre-atone people that end up not really needing it, and then have to watch helplessly as those that do need it start dropping dead. Radiance is going to have to cast a lot faster if thats the case though, because as it stands its a 2.5s cast before even beginning damage spells, way too slow in a burst-damage situation.

    Smart-heals really changes the meta, and makes Disc more like a Resto Shaman with potentially less HPS overall but more useful HPS (on those close to death).

    I've always been super jelly of RShaman mastery...

    They wont be dropping dead... they just wont need it anymore since while disci will be casting his raidance+penance/whatever combo the other healers will cast their direct aoe heals.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by longxia View Post
    We probably will have to use Radiance reactively, otherwise we might pre-atone people that end up not really needing it, and then have to watch helplessly as those that do need it start dropping dead. Radiance is going to have to cast a lot faster if thats the case though, because as it stands its a 2.5s cast before even beginning damage spells, way too slow in a burst-damage situation.

    Smart-heals really changes the meta, and makes Disc more like a Resto Shaman with potentially less HPS overall but more useful HPS (on those close to death).

    I've always been super jelly of RShaman mastery...
    I think the smart heal on PWR will allow for people to use it in two different ways, personally. We could still use it proactively as we do 80% of the time right now, however, we also still use it during situations of constant damage today. Because of the smart heal, it will make our use of the spell during constant damage quite a bit better, which I'm rather excited about. Having a smart PWR on an encounter like M Star Augur for when Fel / Icy Ejections go out would make applying Atonement quick and easy to people who actually need it and make the spec far less clunky to manage in those situations.

    I don't think the change makes a difference in the meta, it's just a straight buff to the spell which is nice. I still think a reduction in cast time as well as some changes to Plea (scaling as it does today from 1-5, capping at 2%) will be needed. I'm also concerned regarding our cooldown situation since PWR casts are going to be fewer and further between. Here are a couple ideas that were thrown about by some of the top discs / theorycrafters (pick one, we wouldn't get all of these changes clearly)

    1.) LW automatically hits all raid members with a 3 minute CD instead
    2.) Shadowfiend / Mindbender heal the entire raid (like a smaller tranq)
    -- Mindbender talent would need some tweaking / rework
    3.) Make Barrier for the Devoted apply Atonement to entire raid baseline and remove 100% added healing. Reduce DR to ~10%. Only people inside barrier get DR but entire raid still gets Atonement for the duration of Barrier. Would require Ne'ro rework.
    4.) Rework SCov to be something like Flourish and it extends active Atonement by ~5 seconds.

    Personally, I like #3 and #4. Changing Shadow Covenant to something that is competitive with Grace (which would now be more likely to take in a raid depending on the healing requirements) or PtW (would be great for multiple enemy encounters still) would provide us with more options at that level for raid talents, which I'd really enjoy. Choosing which talent to go for multiple targets, single target healing, or making healing multiple targets slightly easier for constant damage encounters (by refreshing Atonement) would be a rather great feeling for a spec that has had such a cookie cutter mentality when it comes to talents (because there aren't many alternative options).

    I'm not a fan of making LW or Shadowfiend an easy cooldown personally, but Barrier for the Devoted being changed to allow for raid-wide Atonement for the duration + 10% DR to those in barrier would make the "nerf" to PWR feel a lot better.

  6. #366
    I would very much like shadow covenant to become something else. Having a completely useless talent on the last tier is meh in the highest degree. PtW isn't something to be really excited about outside possibly fights with adds and Grace is a 5 man talent and that's about it. Maybe shadow covenant could give leech to targets? Would sound more shadowy and stuff. Extending atonement on a cd is nice but I think it belongs more in the mana saving tier, where we also have Solace, another never taken talent.

    As attractive a generic raid cd is, I'm not fond of us getting one, we have barrier, and its a good situational cd, shadowed sadly because of its absence on the meters. I'd rather see barrier reworked to be more than a range limited aura mastery. Applying atonement to everybody under it via the artifact talent sounds nice and straightforward. Maybe we could have a "break barrier" talent that splits it into smaller individual shields to make it useful on spread situations (with a loss in power obviously).

  7. #367
    I am Murloc! Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longxia View Post
    We probably will have to use Radiance reactively
    Nice one, 2xPWR+something else takes 5-6 seconds. Not sure how mythic raids work but in normals/HCs I used to raid, everyone gets healed back close to 100% in that timeframe. Disc will still be the slowest to react, making it pretty worthless in that setting.

  8. #368
    Just off the top of my head, but an easy solution for making Shadow Covenant useful might just be to make it an improved Power Word: Radiance. Just make it a PW:R that's instant and knock five seconds off the CD (maybe extend the Atonement time slightly to compensate for the GCD eating a bit of the duration)?

  9. #369
    Shadow Covenants current design is just impossible to balance. If it's viable, it kills the holy spec. Needs a complete overhaul - I guess that's why blizzard decided to ignore it for the most part until they come up with a more intelligent replacement. Feels like current outlaw rogues slice and dice, which pretty much ruins the whole reason to play the spec in the first place.

    Something like "extends the duration of all your active atonements by 9 seconds" with a 90 seconds cooldown (basically what mend already proposed) would be cool.

    There are just so many possibilities to make disc priest really fun to play, instead of the new Sanctuary it could be something like "casting smite reduces the remaining cooldown of PW: R and PW: S by 10%." Or make Twist of Fate apply a 6 seconds longer atonement on low hp targets from direct heals.

  10. #370
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    Something like "extends the duration of all your active atonements by 9 seconds" with a 90 seconds cooldown (basically what mend already proposed) would be cool.
    Or something like this: Brilliant Presence: Passive; Your atonement healing now also hits the three most damaged allies near you (~10y, selfheal possible). You move 20% faster at all times. (In addition to other movement speed increases such as the one from penance.)

    You save the gobals for applying atonement but have to move around instead. Less staring at raid frames, more looking at health bars above players.
    It saves a bit of mana but you cannot take Grace nor Purge the Wicked. (The latter could be a problem because you would need to keep track of health bars of allies and enemies that way, instead of just keeping the boss and spreading from there.)

    Give it a nice glow animation and the animation from PoH whenever we heal around our character, and the old holy projectile animation that was used for some wands back in the day towards allies we heal.

    Adjust some numbers and even if it wasn't viable for progress it would be nice for other content, when we just want to enjoy ourselfes and smite some enemies.
    (In fact, it should not be the best talent for progress, because it would be the best for casual fun. I would miss trading PtW though. I always miss PtW.)

  11. #371
    Stood in the Fire Nurasu's Avatar
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    PTR changes look excellent and fix most of the problems I had with the first round of changes. I'm sad we're essentially losing PTW, since we'll take Evangelism in raids and Grace in Mythic+. I'm thinking Sanctuary will be the go to 75 talent, since Power Infusion is devalued with Contrition baseline and the charges on Radiance. ToF vs. Castigation could be a meaningful choice depending on the encounter. Overall, I think each row still has a clear "winner", but this new build gives a lot more control over atonement application.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is more useful for looking at the changes than the front page is: http://ptr.wowhead.com/talent-calc/priest/discipline

  12. #372
    The disc changes on PTR right now looks great! I hope no nerfs are gonna happen

  13. #373
    Stood in the Fire Nurasu's Avatar
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    I am still concerned about healing moderate raid damage outside of scripted bursts tho. Essentially, we're spamming Plea and "holding" Radiance unless we have at least 15 seconds before we have to start our burst set up? The smart targeting on Radiance would be really nice for this moderate damage, but it seems like we're discouraged from utilizing it due to the charges. Maybe that's just me.

    I'm also wondering if they'll do a pass on our legendaries; the mana reduction one after light's wrath is even more worthless than before, and the +2% haste after Plea seems easily BiS now.

  14. #374
    Is there perhaps other point behind the Radiance charges than an attempt to restrict the total amount of atonements to 10 (two cast)? If that's the only one wouldn't be more reasonable solution to actually do this directly and allow every additional cast to reapply 5 of the already existing atonements from previous radiance casts?

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