Is it possible to have a decent MM spec without sidewinders

[Deleted]

I'm trying really hard to have some decent gameplay without using SW.

I picked black arrow, patient sniper, murder of crows, lone wolf,piercing shot but I find myself just spamming arcane shot waiting for that marked shot proc to finally use aimed shot. This is so dumb but I hate sidewinders.

Is aimed shot useless without the vulnerable proc? Or I can just spam arcane shot and occasionally use some CD like black arrow to pretend there is actually any decision making to do?

[DeicideUH]

Take Sentinel instead of Patient Sniper. It reduces RNG by a lot, and standard (non-Patient Sniper) Vulnerable is getting a big buff next week (2 stacks of 50% dmg increase instead of 3 stacks of 25% increase). You'll be spamming Marked Shots way more.

I'd also suggest either Lock'n'Load or True Aim instead of Black Arrow.

Don't know if it will be competitive in Single Target after the buffs, but at least the rotation flows way better than having Patient Sniper.

[Youn]

So. Assuming 20% haste and 6 minute fight.

Sidewinders (2 charges, 10sec CD) = 6*60/10=36+1=37 sidewinders * 55 focus (with crit focus) = 2035 + 3600 (10/sec) = 5635 per 6 minute fight

3 windburst per minute = 18 windburst (18 * 20 = 360 focus)
8 rppm Marked Shot = 42 marked shots (42 * 30 = 1260 focus)
3 barrage per minute = 18 barrages (18 * 60 = 1080)
Total focus spent 2700
Seconds worth of action = 114s

With Sidewinders = 58 aimed shots (Not counting LnL)
With AS = 200 Arcane shots to equal same 58 aimed shots

58 aimed shots at 1.5s each = 87 seconds.

114 seconds + 87 seconds = 201 seconds of 360 second fight.

37 sindwinders = 37 seconds...
200 Arcane shots = 200 Seconds...
Amount of time in 6 minute fight you have left... 159 seconds.

So. mathematically, you cannot fire enough arcane shots even if GCD locked to actually fire enough aimed shots to equal sidewinders.

[Kirbypro]

lonewolf/sidewinders being mandatory is pretty boring, wish we had more choice in talents.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No unfortunately it is not possible. Have a great day!

[Ometius]

Decent? Yeah... But if you are progressing in raid and you are in need of some extra DPS, you WILL have to change to sidewinders/PS, it's just a straightforward DPS increase, both ST and AoE, sadly. If you are progressing in mythic I don't think you would have any chance of not using PS/SW, unless you have mythic on farm, which I find hard to believe for 99.9% of the players :P

[dexx]

Wouldnt be so bad if it didnt pull everything.

[Tehterokkar]

Wouldnt be so bad if it didnt pull everything.

L2P Issue.

[Bladeweaver]

I think it would be dependant if you have relics and traits that reduce Trueshot CD and, the legendary that reduces the cd with ability use.

On trash packs you should be able to alternate multi shot and marked shot every pull which does respectable damage. The problem is currently is that the cool down is so long that you can use it for every pack and tend to use it when shit has gone wrong and needs to die fast or for boss fights

[keygy]

there are not alternative build to Sidewinders/PS, i dont understand why the people hate sidewinders really.

[Aldare]

Sidewinders is what makes Marksman great in raids.

[Deleted]

there are not alternative build to Sidewinders/PS, i dont understand why the people hate sidewinders really.

It has nothing to do with a Marksman Hunter, it's not even a shot, you just release some snakes. More of a BM skill imo.
They removed Chimaera because it didn't fit MM? well this fits it even less

It's also to much of a hassle to keep track of where you are standing and not trying to pull everything with that and/or Barrage.

It's a boring skill that even removes the ability to AoE with Multi-shot, which is a fun skill in my opinion.
It just dumbs down the overal spec and there isn't even a difference between AoE and single target rotation...


But that's just my opinion.

[Deleted]

Sidewinders is what makes Marksman great in raids.

Yeah but raids aren't everything, it plays like shit in pvp and world content.

The damage is good but I don't like having a spell replacing two spells, especially if it works as a single target and AOE.

[Bladeweaver]

i dont understand why the people hate sidewinders really.

Because snakes contradict the marksman theme.
Because maybe you just want to pull one instead of the mobs to the left and right of it.
Because it makes the other talents on that tier irrelevant because of its interaction with PS and MS.
Because it makes the PS talent on the Lvl 60 Tier, the only choice.
Because its about play style. If the top dps spec was a one button spam spec, it certainly works but it doesn't make it fun to play for everyone.
Because on a PvP server (especially if enemy heavy population), SW draws a lot of attention and get you killed in WQs.
Because for the same reason above, you're pulling all the mobs along the way and helping your pursuers while trying to fight back/get away.

If Arcane Shot and Multi Shot applied vulnerability and/or, if AiS was instant or could be cast on the move, SW PS might have less dominance.

[Trapped]

Yeah, the "mandatory" SW/PS spec is just throwing me off. I'm generally a button masher, and when you pick Patient Sniper, believe me, if you're not patient, you're gonna blow through focus so fast and tank your dps. The amount of time you're standing there auto-attacking is ridiculous. I just simmed myself, and in a 5-minute fight, I'll be either be waiting or pooling focus for 43 seconds of that fight. 14% of the fight I'm standing there derping around.

I guess I just prefer to have a "spammable" ability that generates focus and let me decide how I want to spend it, but obviously any Arcane Shot build is inferior to SW.

[Holovik]

Your forum title contradicts your playstyle

[Putin-Chan]

Because snakes contradict the marksman theme.

This is my #1 reason that I refuse to use sidewinders on my hunter, I HATE seeing my hunter that's supposed to be a plain old, no magic, no beasts, no BS sniper shoot out a bunch of snakes.

I don't really care though, I'm never going to be raiding on it.

[Deleted]

it plays like shit in pvp

MM in RBG is just a Beast, the perfekt side/backline glasscannon. Sure we suck in 1vs1 but thats why you have a team, and bm

[Holovik]

MM in RBG is just a Beast, the perfekt side/backline glasscannon. Sure we suck in 1vs1 but thats why you have a team, and bm

Especially once you get the honor talent 'Focused Fire' at level 34 (+15% dmg if you aren't being attacked). The best scenarios are the king of the hill style BGs like Gilneas and AB where piles of people are flag fighting and you can just pop TS and cleave everyone down.